User:InProgress/Website reviews/J - Revision history

RogerNicholson: redirect

2012-05-05T20:49:08Z

redirect

RogerNicholson: /* */ mod

2012-05-05T20:41:13Z

: mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:41, 5 May 2012
Line 17:		Line 17:
	{{MormonThinkSummaryHeader\|Joseph's Translation of the Bible}}		{{MormonThinkSummaryHeader\|Joseph's Translation of the Bible}}
	*That Joseph Smith's statement about the Book of Mormon being the "most correct book" means that there should be no mistakes in the text, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon title page (written by Mormon) itself states that any mistakes contained therein are the mistakes of men.		*That Joseph Smith's statement about the Book of Mormon being the "most correct book" means that there should be no mistakes in the text, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon title page (written by Mormon) itself states that any mistakes contained therein are the mistakes of men.
			*That the JST footnotes in the LDS Bible are supposed to represent "correctly translated passages," yet acknowledges that Joseph was making "inspired" revisions rather than translating an ancient text. They conclude that translators who "go back to the original sources" have not "confirmed any of Joseph Smith's inspired version passages."
			*That the JST needs to be added to the "Book of Abraham facsimiles and papyri, the Anthon Manuscript, the Kinderhook Plates, Joseph Smith’s Book of Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar and the Greek Psalter" as demonstrations that Joseph lacked the ability to translate anything.

	==== ====		==== ====

RogerNicholson: /* */ mod

2012-05-05T20:33:06Z

: mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:33, 5 May 2012
Line 15:		Line 15:
	{{Website response summary}}		{{Website response summary}}

	~~'''The positions that the MormonThink article "~~Joseph's Translation of the ~~Bibl" appears to take are the following:'''~~		{{MormonThinkSummaryHeader\|Joseph's Translation of the Bible}}
	*That Joseph Smith's statement about the Book of Mormon being the "most correct book" means that there should be no mistakes in the text, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon title page (written by Mormon) itself states that any mistakes contained therein are the mistakes of men.		*That Joseph Smith's statement about the Book of Mormon being the "most correct book" means that there should be no mistakes in the text, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon title page (written by Mormon) itself states that any mistakes contained therein are the mistakes of men.

RogerNicholson: rm

2012-05-03T04:25:11Z

@@ Line 155: / Line 155: @@
 * MormonThink makes claims that Joseph never makes, and then blames him for failing to measure up.
 * Note too all the other things that MormonThink throws in here: the [[Book_of_Abraham/Joseph_Smith_Papyri/Facsimiles|Facsimiles]], [[Book_of_Mormon/Translation/Anthon_transcript|Anthon Manuscript]], [[Forgeries_related_to_Mormonism/Joseph_Smith_and_the_Kinderhook_Plates|Kinderhook]], the [[Book_of_Abraham/Joseph_Smith_Papyri/Kirtland_Egyptian_Papers|Kirtland Egyptian Papers]], and the [[Joseph Smith/Translator/Greek psalter|Greek Psalter]].  They act as if they have settled these issues&mdash;but they have not.  We will not waste time on them here, but resources exist on all of them.  A set of bad arguments and faulty data do not add up to a compelling case.
 |quote=
 }}

GregSmith: /* */

2012-05-03T00:59:30Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:59, 3 May 2012
Line 141:		Line 141:
	\|think=		\|think=
	* The Joseph Smith Translation (JST) is not a translation in the traditional sense. Joseph did not consider himself a "translator" in the academic sense.		* The Joseph Smith Translation (JST) is not a translation in the traditional sense. Joseph did not consider himself a "translator" in the academic sense.
	* The JST better thought of as a kind of "inspired commentary"--Joseph was not restoring 'lost text' (though in some cases he may have).		* The JST better thought of as a kind of "inspired commentary"--Joseph was not usually restoring 'lost text' (though in some few cases he may have).
	* MormonThink involves whole books on the subject, including those written by the foremost experts on the text.		* MormonThink involves whole books on the subject, including those written by the foremost experts on the text.
	\|link=Bible/Joseph Smith Translation/As a restoration of the original Bible text		\|link=Bible/Joseph Smith Translation/As a restoration of the original Bible text

RogerNicholson: /* */ mod

2012-05-02T04:56:51Z

: mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:56, 2 May 2012
Line 16:		Line 16:

	'''The positions that the MormonThink article "Joseph's Translation of the Bibl" appears to take are the following:'''		'''The positions that the MormonThink article "Joseph's Translation of the Bibl" appears to take are the following:'''
	*That Joseph Smith's statement about the Book of Mormon being the "most correct book" means that there should be no mistakes in the text, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon itself states that any mistakes contained therein are the mistakes of men.		*That Joseph Smith's statement about the Book of Mormon being the "most correct book" means that there should be no mistakes in the text, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon title page (written by Mormon) itself states that any mistakes contained therein are the mistakes of men.

	==== ====		==== ====

RogerNicholson: mod

2012-05-02T04:56:06Z

mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:56, 2 May 2012
Line 15:		Line 15:
	{{Website response summary}}		{{Website response summary}}

	The positions that ~~this~~ MormonThink article appears to take are the following:		'''The positions that the MormonThink article "Joseph's Translation of the Bibl" appears to take are the following:'''
	*That Joseph Smith's statement about the Book of Mormon being the "most correct book" means that there should be no mistakes in the text, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon itself states that any mistakes contained therein are the mistakes of men.		*That Joseph Smith's statement about the Book of Mormon being the "most correct book" means that there should be no mistakes in the text, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon itself states that any mistakes contained therein are the mistakes of men.

RogerNicholson: mod

2012-05-02T04:54:04Z

mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:54, 2 May 2012
Line 16:		Line 16:

	The positions that this MormonThink article appears to take are the following:		The positions that this MormonThink article appears to take are the following:
	*		*That Joseph Smith's statement about the Book of Mormon being the "most correct book" means that there should be no mistakes in the text, despite the fact that the Book of Mormon itself states that any mistakes contained therein are the mistakes of men.

	==== ====		==== ====

RogerNicholson: /* */ link

2012-05-02T04:50:27Z

: link

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:50, 2 May 2012
Line 40:		Line 40:
	\|subject=Relationship of the JST to the Book of Mormon		\|subject=Relationship of the JST to the Book of Mormon
	\|summary=Some passages from the Bible (parts of Isaiah, for example) were included in the Book of Mormon text. However, the same passages were later revised for the Joseph Smith Translation of the Holy Bible. In some cases these passages are not rendered identically. Critics claim that if the JST was an accurate translation, it would match the supposedly more 'pure' Isaiah text possessed by the Nephites.		\|summary=Some passages from the Bible (parts of Isaiah, for example) were included in the Book of Mormon text. However, the same passages were later revised for the Joseph Smith Translation of the Holy Bible. In some cases these passages are not rendered identically. Critics claim that if the JST was an accurate translation, it would match the supposedly more 'pure' Isaiah text possessed by the Nephites.
			\|link2=Book of Mormon/As the most correct book
			\|subject2=As the most correct book
			\|summary2=Critics claim that since Joseph stated that it was "the most correct book," that the Book of Mormon should not have contained any errors. Yet, Mormon himself states in the preface that any mistakes contained therein are the mistakes of men.
	}}		}}

RogerNicholson: /* */ format

2012-05-02T04:48:31Z

: format

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:48, 2 May 2012
Line 29:		Line 29:
	\|quote=		\|quote=
	Brigham Young taught that the Book of Mormon text would have been different if it were redone later:		Brigham Young taught that the Book of Mormon text would have been different if it were redone later:
	* Should the Lord Almighty send an angel to re-write the Bible, it would in many places be very different from what it now is. And I will even venture to say that if the Book of Mormon were now to be re-written, in many instances it would materially differ from the present translation. According as people are willing to receive the things of God, so the heavens send forth their blessings ({{JDwiki\|author=Brigham Young\|vol=9\|pages=311\|url=http://en.fairmormon.org/Journal_of_Discourses/9/64}}		<blockquote>
			Should the Lord Almighty send an angel to re-write the Bible, it would in many places be very different from what it now is. And I will even venture to say that if the Book of Mormon were now to be re-written, in many instances it would materially differ from the present translation. According as people are willing to receive the things of God, so the heavens send forth their blessings ({{JDwiki\|author=Brigham Young\|vol=9\|pages=311\|url=http://en.fairmormon.org/Journal_of_Discourses/9/64}}
			</blockquote>

	Joseph Smith also noted that a given passage could have multiple translations, and a less-than-perfect translation might be sufficient:		Joseph Smith also noted that a given passage could have multiple translations, and a less-than-perfect translation might be sufficient:
	* I might have rendered a plainer translation to this, but it is sufficiently plain to suit my purpose as it stands ({{s\|\|DC\|128\|18}}).		<blockquote>
			I might have rendered a plainer translation to this, but it is sufficiently plain to suit my purpose as it stands ({{s\|\|DC\|128\|18}}).
			</blockquote>
	\|link=Mormonism and the Bible/Joseph Smith Translation/Relationship to the Book of Mormon		\|link=Mormonism and the Bible/Joseph Smith Translation/Relationship to the Book of Mormon
	\|subject=Relationship of the JST to the Book of Mormon		\|subject=Relationship of the JST to the Book of Mormon