User:InProgress/SWDN/Swedish questions/16 - Revision history

RogerNicholson: m

2013-11-18T21:00:09Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:00, 18 November 2013
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{Articles FAIR copyright}} {{Articles Header 1}} {{Articles Header 2}} {{Articles Header 3}} {{Articles Header 4}} {{Articles Header 5}} {{Articles Header 6}} {{Articles Header 7}} {{Articles Header 8}} {{Articles Header 9}} {{Articles Header 10}}		#REDIRECT [[Main Page]]
	~~{{Resource Title\|}}~~
	~~{{FAIRAnalysisHeader~~
	~~\|title=~~[[~~../\|Questions Asked at 2010 Swedish Fireside~~]]
	~~\|author=~~
	~~\|noauthor=~~
	~~\|section=~~
	~~\|previous=[[../15\|Response to questions about Adam-God]]~~
	~~\|next=~~
	~~\|notes=~~
	}}
	~~{{Swedish questions quick jump}}~~
	~~==== ====~~
	~~{{QuestionItem~~
	~~\|claim=It’s the same thing with Kinderhook Plates where Joseph said yes this is good thing. But it’s a fraud.~~
	~~\|answer=~~
	*'''Question: Did Joseph translate the fraudulent Kinderhook Plates?<br>Answer: No translation of the plates exists, apart from the initial "portion."'''.
	~~<blockquote>~~
	~~<blockquote>~~
	If you walk through all of the evidence from the time the Kinderhook Plates were discovered, down to the time they take them to Nauvoo, to the time they had the editorial published in the ''Times and Seasons'', to the time that broadside published in the ''Nauvoo Neighbor'' newspaper, to the time that Wilbur Fugate one of the proponents of that fraud, made his statement, there’s clear evidence that Joseph wanted to translate them and never did. Why didn’t he? I think because they were a fraud. Wilbur Fugate, the man who helped to perpetrate this fraud, said explicitly that they wanted Joseph Smith to translate it. Joseph Smith said he would not translate it until they sent it to the Antiquarian Society in Philadelphia, France, and England. So he never did translate it.<br>
	~~:::—Brother Turley's answer to this question at the Sweden fireside.~~
	~~</blockquote></blockquote>~~
	*'''Question: Did Church leaders believe for many years that the Kinderhook Plates were legitimate?<br>Answer: Yes'''.
	~~<blockquote>~~
	~~The plates were lost and there was no way to determine their authenticity. The Church believed that they were genuine until one plate was rediscovered and proven to be a fraud.~~
	~~</blockquote>~~
	*'''Question: Was William Clayton's journal entry stating that Pres. Joseph had "translated a portion" of the Kinderhook plates correct?<br>Answer: Yes'''.
	~~<blockquote>~~
	Joseph attempted to translate one of the characters on the plates by matching it to a similar character on the Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language (GAEL), a document that was produced in the same timeframe as the Book of Abraham. It is from the GAEL that he derived the "descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh" meaning.
	~~</blockquote>~~
	*'''Question: Did Joseph attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates by revelation?<br>Answer: No'''.
	~~<blockquote>~~
	Joseph's initial attempt at translation was done using [[Forgeries_related_to_Mormonism/Joseph_Smith_and_the_Kinderhook_Plates\|non-revelatory means]]. He proceeded no further, as Brother Turley mentioned. Since the plates were an attempt to trick Joseph Smith, why did the conspirators never crow that they had fooled him? Quite simply, because they hadn't.<br><br>
	~~This data was introduced by Don Bradley at the 2011 FAIR Conference.~~
	~~</blockquote>~~
	~~[[File:Kinderhook.plates.don.bradley.description.jpg\|800 px]]~~
	~~\|extlink=http://www.fairlds.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Don-Bradley-Kinderhook-President-Joseph-Has-Translated-a-Portion-1.pdf~~
	~~\|extsubject=‘President Joseph Has Translated a Portion’: Solving the Mystery of the Kinderhook Plates~~
	~~\|extpublication=, 2011 FAIR Conference Proceedings~~
	~~\|extauthor=Don Bradley~~
	~~\|extsummary=The most complete and up-to-date analysis of the history of the Kinderhook plates episode.~~
	}}

RogerNicholson: /* */ mod

2013-10-26T01:06:16Z

: mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:06, 26 October 2013
Line 21:		Line 21:
	:::—Brother Turley's answer to this question at the Sweden fireside.		:::—Brother Turley's answer to this question at the Sweden fireside.
	</blockquote></blockquote>		</blockquote></blockquote>
	*'''Question: Did Church leaders believe for many years that the Kinderhook Plates were legitimate?<br>Answer: Yes'''.<blockquote>The plates were lost and there was no way to determine their authenticity. The Church believed that they were genuine until one plate was rediscovered and proven to be a fraud.</blockquote>		*'''Question: Did Church leaders believe for many years that the Kinderhook Plates were legitimate?<br>Answer: Yes'''.
	*'''Question: Was William Clayton's journal entry stating that Pres. Joseph had "translated a portion" of the Kinderhook plates correct?<br>Answer: Yes'''.<blockquote>Joseph attempted to translate one of the characters on the plates by matching it to a similar character on the Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language (GAEL), a document that was produced in the same timeframe as the Book of Abraham. It is from the GAEL that he derived the "descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh" meaning.</blockquote>		<blockquote>
	*'''Question: Did Joseph attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates by revelation?<br>Answer: No'''.<blockquote>Joseph's initial attempt at translation was done using [[Forgeries_related_to_Mormonism/Joseph_Smith_and_the_Kinderhook_Plates\|non-revelatory means]]. He proceeded no further, as Brother Turley mentioned. Since the plates were an attempt to trick Joseph Smith, why did the conspirators never crow that they had fooled him? Quite simply, because they hadn't.		The plates were lost and there was no way to determine their authenticity. The Church believed that they were genuine until one plate was rediscovered and proven to be a fraud.
	*This data was introduced by Don Bradley at the 2011 FAIR Conference.</blockquote>		</blockquote>
			*'''Question: Was William Clayton's journal entry stating that Pres. Joseph had "translated a portion" of the Kinderhook plates correct?<br>Answer: Yes'''.
			<blockquote>
			Joseph attempted to translate one of the characters on the plates by matching it to a similar character on the Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language (GAEL), a document that was produced in the same timeframe as the Book of Abraham. It is from the GAEL that he derived the "descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh" meaning.
			</blockquote>
			*'''Question: Did Joseph attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates by revelation?<br>Answer: No'''.
			<blockquote>
			Joseph's initial attempt at translation was done using [[Forgeries_related_to_Mormonism/Joseph_Smith_and_the_Kinderhook_Plates\|non-revelatory means]]. He proceeded no further, as Brother Turley mentioned. Since the plates were an attempt to trick Joseph Smith, why did the conspirators never crow that they had fooled him? Quite simply, because they hadn't.<br><br>
			This data was introduced by Don Bradley at the 2011 FAIR Conference.
			</blockquote>
	[[File:Kinderhook.plates.don.bradley.description.jpg\|800 px]]		[[File:Kinderhook.plates.don.bradley.description.jpg\|800 px]]
	\|extlink=http://www.fairlds.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Don-Bradley-Kinderhook-President-Joseph-Has-Translated-a-Portion-1.pdf		\|extlink=http://www.fairlds.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Don-Bradley-Kinderhook-President-Joseph-Has-Translated-a-Portion-1.pdf

RogerNicholson: mod

2013-10-26T01:04:38Z

mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:04, 26 October 2013
Line 15:		Line 15:
	\|claim=It’s the same thing with Kinderhook Plates where Joseph said yes this is good thing. But it’s a fraud.		\|claim=It’s the same thing with Kinderhook Plates where Joseph said yes this is good thing. But it’s a fraud.
	\|answer=		\|answer=
	*'''Question: Did Joseph translate the fraudulent Kinderhook Plates?<br>Answer: ~~No'''.~~		*'''Question: Did Joseph translate the fraudulent Kinderhook Plates?<br>Answer: No translation of the plates exists, apart from the initial "portion."'''.
			<blockquote>
	~~<blockquote>~~No translation of the plates exists, apart from the initial "portion."
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	If you walk through all of the evidence from the time the Kinderhook Plates were discovered, down to the time they take them to Nauvoo, to the time they had the editorial published in the ''Times and Seasons'', to the time that broadside published in the ''Nauvoo Neighbor'' newspaper, to the time that Wilbur Fugate one of the proponents of that fraud, made his statement, there’s clear evidence that Joseph wanted to translate them and never did. Why didn’t he? I think because they were a fraud. Wilbur Fugate, the man who helped to perpetrate this fraud, said explicitly that they wanted Joseph Smith to translate it. Joseph Smith said he would not translate it until they sent it to the Antiquarian Society in Philadelphia, France, and England. So he never did translate it.<br>		If you walk through all of the evidence from the time the Kinderhook Plates were discovered, down to the time they take them to Nauvoo, to the time they had the editorial published in the ''Times and Seasons'', to the time that broadside published in the ''Nauvoo Neighbor'' newspaper, to the time that Wilbur Fugate one of the proponents of that fraud, made his statement, there’s clear evidence that Joseph wanted to translate them and never did. Why didn’t he? I think because they were a fraud. Wilbur Fugate, the man who helped to perpetrate this fraud, said explicitly that they wanted Joseph Smith to translate it. Joseph Smith said he would not translate it until they sent it to the Antiquarian Society in Philadelphia, France, and England. So he never did translate it.<br>

RogerNicholson: mod

2013-10-24T05:36:43Z

mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:36, 24 October 2013
Line 11:		Line 11:
	}}		}}
	{{Swedish questions quick jump}}		{{Swedish questions quick jump}}
	~~{{parabreak}}~~
	==== ====		==== ====
	{{QuestionItem		{{QuestionItem

RogerNicholson: mod

2013-10-21T19:44:07Z

mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:44, 21 October 2013
Line 21:		Line 21:
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	If you walk through all of the evidence from the time the Kinderhook Plates were discovered, down to the time they take them to Nauvoo, to the time they had the editorial published in the ''Times and Seasons'', to the time that broadside published in the ''Nauvoo Neighbor'' newspaper, to the time that Wilbur Fugate one of the proponents of that fraud, made his statement, there’s clear evidence that Joseph wanted to translate them and never did. Why didn’t he? I think because they were a fraud. Wilbur Fugate, the man who helped to perpetrate this fraud, said explicitly that they wanted Joseph Smith to translate it. Joseph Smith said he would not translate it until they sent it to the Antiquarian Society in Philadelphia, France, and England. So he never did translate it.<br>		If you walk through all of the evidence from the time the Kinderhook Plates were discovered, down to the time they take them to Nauvoo, to the time they had the editorial published in the ''Times and Seasons'', to the time that broadside published in the ''Nauvoo Neighbor'' newspaper, to the time that Wilbur Fugate one of the proponents of that fraud, made his statement, there’s clear evidence that Joseph wanted to translate them and never did. Why didn’t he? I think because they were a fraud. Wilbur Fugate, the man who helped to perpetrate this fraud, said explicitly that they wanted Joseph Smith to translate it. Joseph Smith said he would not translate it until they sent it to the Antiquarian Society in Philadelphia, France, and England. So he never did translate it.<br>
	:::—~~Elder~~ Turley's answer to this question at the Sweden fireside.		:::—Brother Turley's answer to this question at the Sweden fireside.
	</blockquote></blockquote>		</blockquote></blockquote>
	*'''Question: Did Church leaders believe for many years that the Kinderhook Plates were legitimate?<br>Answer: Yes'''.<blockquote>The plates were lost and there was no way to determine their authenticity. The Church believed that they were genuine until one plate was rediscovered and proven to be a fraud.</blockquote>		*'''Question: Did Church leaders believe for many years that the Kinderhook Plates were legitimate?<br>Answer: Yes'''.<blockquote>The plates were lost and there was no way to determine their authenticity. The Church believed that they were genuine until one plate was rediscovered and proven to be a fraud.</blockquote>
	*'''Question: Was William Clayton's journal entry stating that Pres. Joseph had "translated a portion" of the Kinderhook plates correct?<br>Answer: Yes'''.<blockquote>Joseph attempted to translate one of the characters on the plates by matching it to a similar character on the Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language (GAEL), a document that was produced in the same timeframe as the Book of Abraham. It is from the GAEL that he derived the "descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh" meaning.</blockquote>		*'''Question: Was William Clayton's journal entry stating that Pres. Joseph had "translated a portion" of the Kinderhook plates correct?<br>Answer: Yes'''.<blockquote>Joseph attempted to translate one of the characters on the plates by matching it to a similar character on the Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language (GAEL), a document that was produced in the same timeframe as the Book of Abraham. It is from the GAEL that he derived the "descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh" meaning.</blockquote>
	*'''Question: Did Joseph attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates by revelation?<br>Answer: No'''.<blockquote>Joseph's initial attempt at translation was done using [[Forgeries_related_to_Mormonism/Joseph_Smith_and_the_Kinderhook_Plates\|non-revelatory means]]. He proceeded no further, as ~~Elder~~ Turley mentioned. Since the plates were an attempt to trick Joseph Smith, why did the conspirators never crow that they had fooled him? Quite simply, because they hadn't.		*'''Question: Did Joseph attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates by revelation?<br>Answer: No'''.<blockquote>Joseph's initial attempt at translation was done using [[Forgeries_related_to_Mormonism/Joseph_Smith_and_the_Kinderhook_Plates\|non-revelatory means]]. He proceeded no further, as Brother Turley mentioned. Since the plates were an attempt to trick Joseph Smith, why did the conspirators never crow that they had fooled him? Quite simply, because they hadn't.
	*This data was introduced by Don Bradley at the 2011 FAIR Conference.</blockquote>		*This data was introduced by Don Bradley at the 2011 FAIR Conference.</blockquote>
	[[File:Kinderhook.plates.don.bradley.description.jpg\|800 px]]		[[File:Kinderhook.plates.don.bradley.description.jpg\|800 px]]

RogerNicholson: mod

2013-10-21T19:38:51Z

mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:38, 21 October 2013
Line 10:		Line 10:
	\|notes=		\|notes=
	}}		}}
			{{Swedish questions quick jump}}
			{{parabreak}}
	==== ====		==== ====
	{{QuestionItem		{{QuestionItem

RogerNicholson: mod

2013-10-21T19:37:57Z

mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:37, 21 October 2013
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{Articles FAIR copyright}} {{Articles Header 1}} {{Articles Header 2}} {{Articles Header 3}} {{Articles Header 4}} {{Articles Header 5}} {{Articles Header 6}} {{Articles Header 7}} {{Articles Header 8}} {{Articles Header 9}} {{Articles Header 10}}		{{Articles FAIR copyright}} {{Articles Header 1}} {{Articles Header 2}} {{Articles Header 3}} {{Articles Header 4}} {{Articles Header 5}} {{Articles Header 6}} {{Articles Header 7}} {{Articles Header 8}} {{Articles Header 9}} {{Articles Header 10}}
	{{Resource Title\|~~A FairMormon Response to~~ Questions Asked in Swedish Fireside ~~with Elder's Jensen and Turley}}~~		{{Resource Title\|}}
			{{FAIRAnalysisHeader
	~~{{Swedish~~ questions ~~quick jump}}~~		\|title=[[../\|Questions Asked at 2010 Swedish Fireside]]
	~~{{parabreak~~}}		\|author=
			\|noauthor=
			\|section=
			\|previous=[[../15\|Response to questions about Adam-God]]
			\|next=
			\|notes=
			}}

	==== ====		==== ====

RogerNicholson: RogerNicholson moved page InProgress/SWDN/Swedish questions/16 to User:InProgress/SWDN/Swedish questions/16

2013-10-21T15:23:10Z

RogerNicholson moved page InProgress/SWDN/Swedish questions/16 to User:InProgress/SWDN/Swedish questions/16

← Older revision	Revision as of 15:23, 21 October 2013
(No difference)

RogerNicholson: mod

2013-10-21T15:18:53Z

mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:18, 21 October 2013
Line 22:		Line 22:
	[[File:Kinderhook.plates.don.bradley.description.jpg\|800 px]]		[[File:Kinderhook.plates.don.bradley.description.jpg\|800 px]]
	\|extlink=http://www.fairlds.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Don-Bradley-Kinderhook-President-Joseph-Has-Translated-a-Portion-1.pdf		\|extlink=http://www.fairlds.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Don-Bradley-Kinderhook-President-Joseph-Has-Translated-a-Portion-1.pdf
	\|extsubject=‘President Joseph Has Translated a Portion’: Solving the Mystery of the Kinderhook Plates, FAIR Conference~~, 2011~~		\|extsubject=‘President Joseph Has Translated a Portion’: Solving the Mystery of the Kinderhook Plates
			\|extpublication=, 2011 FAIR Conference Proceedings
	\|extauthor=Don Bradley		\|extauthor=Don Bradley
	\|extsummary=The most complete and up-to-date analysis of the history of the Kinderhook plates episode.		\|extsummary=The most complete and up-to-date analysis of the history of the Kinderhook plates episode.
	}}		}}

GregSmith at 22:28, 15 October 2013

2013-10-15T22:28:40Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:28, 15 October 2013
Line 19:		Line 19:
	*'''Question: Was William Clayton's journal entry stating that Pres. Joseph had "translated a portion" of the Kinderhook plates correct?<br>Answer: Yes'''.<blockquote>Joseph attempted to translate one of the characters on the plates by matching it to a similar character on the Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language (GAEL), a document that was produced in the same timeframe as the Book of Abraham. It is from the GAEL that he derived the "descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh" meaning.</blockquote>		*'''Question: Was William Clayton's journal entry stating that Pres. Joseph had "translated a portion" of the Kinderhook plates correct?<br>Answer: Yes'''.<blockquote>Joseph attempted to translate one of the characters on the plates by matching it to a similar character on the Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language (GAEL), a document that was produced in the same timeframe as the Book of Abraham. It is from the GAEL that he derived the "descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh" meaning.</blockquote>
	*'''Question: Did Joseph attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates by revelation?<br>Answer: No'''.<blockquote>Joseph's initial attempt at translation was done using [[Forgeries_related_to_Mormonism/Joseph_Smith_and_the_Kinderhook_Plates\|non-revelatory means]]. He proceeded no further, as Elder Turley mentioned. Since the plates were an attempt to trick Joseph Smith, why did the conspirators never crow that they had fooled him? Quite simply, because they hadn't.		*'''Question: Did Joseph attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates by revelation?<br>Answer: No'''.<blockquote>Joseph's initial attempt at translation was done using [[Forgeries_related_to_Mormonism/Joseph_Smith_and_the_Kinderhook_Plates\|non-revelatory means]]. He proceeded no further, as Elder Turley mentioned. Since the plates were an attempt to trick Joseph Smith, why did the conspirators never crow that they had fooled him? Quite simply, because they hadn't.
	*This data was introduced by Don Bradley at the 2011 FAIR Conference. For a detailed explanation, see Don Bradley [http://www.fairlds.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Don-Bradley-Kinderhook-President-Joseph-Has-Translated-a-Portion-1.pdf "‘President Joseph Has Translated a Portion’: Solving the Mystery of the Kinderhook Plates,"] 2011 FAIR Conference.</blockquote>		*This data was introduced by Don Bradley at the 2011 FAIR Conference.</blockquote>
	[[File:Kinderhook.plates.don.bradley.description.jpg\|800 px]]		[[File:Kinderhook.plates.don.bradley.description.jpg\|800 px]]
			\|extlink=http://www.fairlds.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Don-Bradley-Kinderhook-President-Joseph-Has-Translated-a-Portion-1.pdf
			\|extsubject=‘President Joseph Has Translated a Portion’: Solving the Mystery of the Kinderhook Plates, FAIR Conference, 2011
			\|extauthor=Don Bradley
			\|extsummary=The most complete and up-to-date analysis of the history of the Kinderhook plates episode.
	}}		}}