Understanding biblical numbers and stories - Revision history

GregSmith: /* Does the biblical story of Peleg describe the separation of the continents? */

2024-05-31T04:18:23Z

Does the biblical story of Peleg describe the separation of the continents?

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:18, 31 May 2024
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	\|subject1=Peleg		\|subject1=Peleg
	\|summary1=There is no serious biblical scholarship that reads these verses as implying a rapid drift of the continents—partly because such an idea would have been utterly foreign to writers in that time period. So what does it mean?		\|summary1=There is no serious biblical scholarship that reads these verses as implying a rapid drift of the continents—partly because such an idea would have been utterly foreign to writers in that time period. So what does it mean?
	~~\|link2=The Flood#Doesn't the Bible say that the continents were divided immediately after the Flood?~~
	~~\|subject2=Peleg~~
	\|summary2=There is no serious biblical scholarship that reads these verses as implying a rapid drift of the continents—partly because such an idea would have been utterly foreign to writers in that time period. So what does it mean?
	}}		}}

GregSmith at 04:17, 31 May 2024

2024-05-31T04:17:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:17, 31 May 2024
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	\|subject1=Peleg		\|subject1=Peleg
	\|summary1=There is no serious biblical scholarship that reads these verses as implying a rapid drift of the continents—partly because such an idea would have been utterly foreign to writers in that time period. So what does it mean?		\|summary1=There is no serious biblical scholarship that reads these verses as implying a rapid drift of the continents—partly because such an idea would have been utterly foreign to writers in that time period. So what does it mean?
			\|link2=The Flood#Doesn't the Bible say that the continents were divided immediately after the Flood?
			\|subject2=Peleg
			\|summary2=There is no serious biblical scholarship that reads these verses as implying a rapid drift of the continents—partly because such an idea would have been utterly foreign to writers in that time period. So what does it mean?
	}}		}}

GregSmith at 04:16, 31 May 2024

2024-05-31T04:16:39Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:16, 31 May 2024
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	=Does the biblical story of Peleg describe the separation of the continents?=		=Does the biblical story of Peleg describe the separation of the continents?=

	{{~~SummaryItem~~		{{Related articles
	\|~~link~~=The Flood#Doesn't the Bible say that the continents were divided immediately after the Flood?		\|link1=The Flood#Doesn't the Bible say that the continents were divided immediately after the Flood?
	\|~~subject~~=Peleg		\|subject1=Peleg
	\|~~summary~~=There is no serious biblical scholarship that reads these verses as implying a rapid drift of the continents—partly because such an idea would have been utterly foreign to writers in that time period. So what does it mean?		\|summary1=There is no serious biblical scholarship that reads these verses as implying a rapid drift of the continents—partly because such an idea would have been utterly foreign to writers in that time period. So what does it mean?
	}}		}}

GregSmith: /* What’s the best way to understand the Tower of Babel scientifically? */

2024-05-31T02:16:34Z

What’s the best way to understand the Tower of Babel scientifically?

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:16, 31 May 2024
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	While most people think of myths as fables (which is what the word actually means), scholars loosely define myths as culturally-shared narratives that bind, inspire, or help delineate a particular culture. In the academic world, the word myth "is detached from popular associations with falsehood." They equate to "legends," which may or may not be based on actual truths. Myths are often pre-scientific stories used to explain why things are as they are. They may represent "types" or models, or they might exaggerate a real event. They may conflate multiple events into a single story, and they typically make erroneous assumptions based on an incomplete understanding of actual facts.		While most people think of myths as fables (which is what the word actually means), scholars loosely define myths as culturally-shared narratives that bind, inspire, or help delineate a particular culture. In the academic world, the word myth "is detached from popular associations with falsehood." They equate to "legends," which may or may not be based on actual truths. Myths are often pre-scientific stories used to explain why things are as they are. They may represent "types" or models, or they might exaggerate a real event. They may conflate multiple events into a single story, and they typically make erroneous assumptions based on an incomplete understanding of actual facts.
			[[File:Tower of Babel-Gustav Dore (1866).jpg\| 400px \| thumb\| left\| 'The Tower of Babel', Gustav Doré, ''La Grande Bible de Tours'' (1866)—one of a series of illustrations created for the extraordinarily successful 19th century French version of the Vulgate Bible.]]
	Anciently, oral and written traditions were not "histories" in the modern sense. While such accounts were often based on actual events, historical accuracy was not a high priority. The main purpose was to share cultural events, heroes and villains intentionally selected to relate specific points. Tales of real events could be molded to help convey the moral of the story.		Anciently, oral and written traditions were not "histories" in the modern sense. While such accounts were often based on actual events, historical accuracy was not a high priority. The main purpose was to share cultural events, heroes and villains intentionally selected to relate specific points. Tales of real events could be molded to help convey the moral of the story.

	As detailed in a past issue, while I believe in actual Jaredites, Nephites and Lamanites, I also believe we can better appreciate the scriptures when we realize that ancient societies — including prophets — recorded their narratives according to their own understanding of the world around them.		As detailed in a past issue, while I believe in actual Jaredites, Nephites and Lamanites, I also believe we can better appreciate the scriptures when we realize that ancient societies — including prophets — recorded their narratives according to their own understanding of the world around them.
	[[File:Tower of Babel-Gustav Dore (1866).jpg\| 400px \| thumb\| left\| 'The Tower of Babel', Gustav Doré, ''La Grande Bible de Tours'' (1866)—one of a series of illustrations created for the extraordinarily successful 19th century French version of the Vulgate Bible.]]
	When we shine the light of science and scholarship on the Tower of Babel, we find some interesting things. First, the word "Babel" comes from an Assyro-Babylonian word that means "Gate of God" and is related to a Hebrew word that means "confusion." It appears that the author(s) of the Babel account are engaging in some word-play to make a particular point about the story. It’s also interesting to note that the book of Ether never mentions "Babel" but simply the "great tower."		When we shine the light of science and scholarship on the Tower of Babel, we find some interesting things. First, the word "Babel" comes from an Assyro-Babylonian word that means "Gate of God" and is related to a Hebrew word that means "confusion." It appears that the author(s) of the Babel account are engaging in some word-play to make a particular point about the story. It’s also interesting to note that the book of Ether never mentions "Babel" but simply the "great tower."

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	In ancient Mesopotamia, from at least 3,000 B.C., we find the construction of ziggurats — stepped temple monuments. Ancient cultures believed that gods resided on the tops of mountains, and this belief was even incorporated into Greek mythology, which taught that Zeus lived atop Mount Olympus. Early prophets, including Abraham and Nephi, went up into the mountains to pray or commune with God. Likewise Moses met God on Mount Sinai. Temples were considered to be man-made cosmic mountains. As Dr. Nibley notes, they are the "‘binding-place of heaven and earth,’ where alone one could establish contact with the upper and lower worlds." The ziggurats of Mesopotamia were temples or towers built to reach the heavens or intended "gates" to God. While Nimrod’s connection to the Tower of Babel can only be inferred from the Bible, other ancient traditions support this inference. According to some of these ancient traditions, Nimrod, the great-grandson of Noah, acquired (stole — in many legends) the skin garment that God gave to Adam in the Garden of Eden. The garment supposedly gave Nimrod great power — God-like power. Nibley wrote:		In ancient Mesopotamia, from at least 3,000 B.C., we find the construction of ziggurats — stepped temple monuments. Ancient cultures believed that gods resided on the tops of mountains, and this belief was even incorporated into Greek mythology, which taught that Zeus lived atop Mount Olympus. Early prophets, including Abraham and Nephi, went up into the mountains to pray or commune with God. Likewise Moses met God on Mount Sinai. Temples were considered to be man-made cosmic mountains. As Dr. Nibley notes, they are the "‘binding-place of heaven and earth,’ where alone one could establish contact with the upper and lower worlds." The ziggurats of Mesopotamia were temples or towers built to reach the heavens or intended "gates" to God. While Nimrod’s connection to the Tower of Babel can only be inferred from the Bible, other ancient traditions support this inference. According to some of these ancient traditions, Nimrod, the great-grandson of Noah, acquired (stole — in many legends) the skin garment that God gave to Adam in the Garden of Eden. The garment supposedly gave Nimrod great power — God-like power. Nibley wrote:

	::Now I am not insisting for a minute that the legendary Nimrod ever existed. … I am only interested in the type of thing that happened, and after having examined hundreds of legends from all parts of the ancient world, all telling substantially the same story, I think that anyone would find it difficult, in view of the evidence, to deny that there was some common event behind them. It seems to have been a single event, moreover.		::''Now I am not insisting for a minute that the legendary Nimrod ever existed. … I am only interested in the type of thing that happened, and after having examined hundreds of legends from all parts of the ancient world, all telling substantially the same story, I think that anyone would find it difficult, in view of the evidence, to deny that there was some common event behind them. It seems to have been a single event, moreover.''

	In ancient Judaic thought, Babylon (the ancient city-state of Mesopotamia) represented the wicked while Zion represented the righteous. Since the "priesthood" is God’s power bestowed upon mankind, an imitation God-like power would be a false priesthood and a tower associated with this power would be a false temple. The Tower of Babel, therefore would represent — either historically or mythically — the false temples and priesthoods of wicked men who opposed the true priesthood and the living God.<ref>Michael R. Ash, "Challenging Issues, Keeping the Faith: Michael R. Ash: Is the Tower of Babel historical or mythological?" ''Deseret News'', 27 September 2010. Accessed 29 March 2019. <https://www.deseretnews.com/article/700068940/Michael-R-Ash-Is-the-Tower-of-Babel-historical-or-mythological.html?pg=all></ref>		In ancient Judaic thought, Babylon (the ancient city-state of Mesopotamia) represented the wicked while Zion represented the righteous. Since the "priesthood" is God’s power bestowed upon mankind, an imitation God-like power would be a false priesthood and a tower associated with this power would be a false temple. The Tower of Babel, therefore would represent — either historically or mythically — the false temples and priesthoods of wicked men who opposed the true priesthood and the living God.<ref>Michael R. Ash, "Challenging Issues, Keeping the Faith: Michael R. Ash: Is the Tower of Babel historical or mythological?" ''Deseret News'', 27 September 2010. Accessed 29 March 2019. <https://www.deseretnews.com/article/700068940/Michael-R-Ash-Is-the-Tower-of-Babel-historical-or-mythological.html?pg=all></ref>

GregSmith: /* What’s the best way to understand the Tower of Babel scientifically? */

2024-05-31T02:15:25Z

What’s the best way to understand the Tower of Babel scientifically?

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:15, 31 May 2024
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	# Was there a tower that could reach the heavens?		# Was there a tower that could reach the heavens?
	# Were languages actually confused?[[File:Babel Ziggurat.jpg\|400px\|thumb\|right\|The Ur Ziggurat. Many Biblical scholars have argued that these types of ziggurats could have been the Tower of Babel mentioned in the Bible. This is one proposed location.]]		# Were languages actually confused?[[File:Babel Ziggurat.jpg\|400px\|thumb\|right\|The Ur Ziggurat. Many Biblical scholars have argued that these types of ziggurats could have been the Tower of Babel mentioned in the Bible. This is one proposed location.]]
	[[File:Tower of Babel-Gustav Dore (1866).jpg\| 400px \| thumb\| left\| 'The Tower of Babel', Gustav Doré, ''La Grande Bible de Tours'' (1866)—one of a series of illustrations created for the extraordinarily successful 19th century French version of the Vulgate Bible.]]

	Both of those questions are addressed in this excellent article by Michael Ash who cites Hugh Nibley:		Both of those questions are addressed in this excellent article by Michael Ash who cites Hugh Nibley:
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	As detailed in a past issue, while I believe in actual Jaredites, Nephites and Lamanites, I also believe we can better appreciate the scriptures when we realize that ancient societies — including prophets — recorded their narratives according to their own understanding of the world around them.		As detailed in a past issue, while I believe in actual Jaredites, Nephites and Lamanites, I also believe we can better appreciate the scriptures when we realize that ancient societies — including prophets — recorded their narratives according to their own understanding of the world around them.
			[[File:Tower of Babel-Gustav Dore (1866).jpg\| 400px \| thumb\| left\| 'The Tower of Babel', Gustav Doré, ''La Grande Bible de Tours'' (1866)—one of a series of illustrations created for the extraordinarily successful 19th century French version of the Vulgate Bible.]]
	When we shine the light of science and scholarship on the Tower of Babel, we find some interesting things. First, the word "Babel" comes from an Assyro-Babylonian word that means "Gate of God" and is related to a Hebrew word that means "confusion." It appears that the author(s) of the Babel account are engaging in some word-play to make a particular point about the story. It’s also interesting to note that the book of Ether never mentions "Babel" but simply the "great tower."		When we shine the light of science and scholarship on the Tower of Babel, we find some interesting things. First, the word "Babel" comes from an Assyro-Babylonian word that means "Gate of God" and is related to a Hebrew word that means "confusion." It appears that the author(s) of the Babel account are engaging in some word-play to make a particular point about the story. It’s also interesting to note that the book of Ether never mentions "Babel" but simply the "great tower."

GregSmith at 02:14, 31 May 2024

2024-05-31T02:14:44Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:14, 31 May 2024
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	# Was there a tower that could reach the heavens?		# Was there a tower that could reach the heavens?
	# Were languages actually confused?[[File:Babel Ziggurat.jpg\|400px\|thumb\|right\|The Ur Ziggurat. Many Biblical scholars have argued that these types of ziggurats could have been the Tower of Babel mentioned in the Bible. This is one proposed location.]]		# Were languages actually confused?[[File:Babel Ziggurat.jpg\|400px\|thumb\|right\|The Ur Ziggurat. Many Biblical scholars have argued that these types of ziggurats could have been the Tower of Babel mentioned in the Bible. This is one proposed location.]]
	[[File:~~FILE_NAME~~ \| 400px \| thumb\| ~~right~~ \| 'The Tower of Babel', Gustav Doré, ''La Grande Bible de Tours'' (1866)—one of a series of illustrations created for the extraordinarily successful 19th century French version of the Vulgate Bible.]]		[[File:Tower of Babel-Gustav Dore (1866).jpg\| 400px \| thumb\| left\| 'The Tower of Babel', Gustav Doré, ''La Grande Bible de Tours'' (1866)—one of a series of illustrations created for the extraordinarily successful 19th century French version of the Vulgate Bible.]]

	Both of those questions are addressed in this excellent article by Michael Ash who cites Hugh Nibley:		Both of those questions are addressed in this excellent article by Michael Ash who cites Hugh Nibley:

GregSmith: /* By all indications, we can believe that something happened. Though we should probably be aware that exaggerations very likely exist in the account */

2024-05-31T02:14:16Z

By all indications, we can believe that something happened. Though we should probably be aware that exaggerations very likely exist in the account

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:14, 31 May 2024
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	# Was there a tower that could reach the heavens?		# Was there a tower that could reach the heavens?
	# Were languages actually confused?[[File:Babel Ziggurat.jpg\|400px\|thumb\|right\|The Ur Ziggurat. Many Biblical scholars have argued that these types of ziggurats could have been the Tower of Babel mentioned in the Bible. This is one proposed location.]]		# Were languages actually confused?[[File:Babel Ziggurat.jpg\|400px\|thumb\|right\|The Ur Ziggurat. Many Biblical scholars have argued that these types of ziggurats could have been the Tower of Babel mentioned in the Bible. This is one proposed location.]]
			[[File:FILE_NAME \| 400px \| thumb\| right \| 'The Tower of Babel', Gustav Doré, ''La Grande Bible de Tours'' (1866)—one of a series of illustrations created for the extraordinarily successful 19th century French version of the Vulgate Bible.]]

	Both of those questions are addressed in this excellent article by Michael Ash who cites Hugh Nibley:		Both of those questions are addressed in this excellent article by Michael Ash who cites Hugh Nibley:

GregSmith at 03:41, 29 May 2024

2024-05-29T03:41:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:41, 29 May 2024
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	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

	{{To learn more box:Sodom and Gomorrah}}		{{To learn more box:Sodom and Gomorrah}}{{blankline}}

	=What is the best way to understand the story of Jonah and the Whale scientifically?=		=What is the best way to understand the story of Jonah and the Whale scientifically?=

GregSmith: /* A meteor airburst? */

2024-05-29T03:41:00Z

A meteor airburst?

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:41, 29 May 2024
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	“All the observations stated in Genesis are consistent with a cosmic airburst,” says Kennett in the statement, “but there’s no scientific proof that this destroyed city is indeed the Sodom of the Old Testament.”<ref>Livia Gershon, "[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/destruction-of-city-by-space-rock-may-have-inspired-biblical-story-of-sodom-180978734/ Ancient City’s Destruction by Exploding Space Rock May Have Inspired Biblical Story of Sodom]," ''Smithsonian Magazine'' (22 September 2021). This summary is based on the report found in Ted E. Bunch ''et al.'', "A Tunguska sized airburst destroyed Tall el-Hammam a Middle Bronze Age city in the Jordan Valley near the Dead Sea," Nature Scientific Reports 11/18632 (2021), https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-021-97778-3.</ref>		“All the observations stated in Genesis are consistent with a cosmic airburst,” says Kennett in the statement, “but there’s no scientific proof that this destroyed city is indeed the Sodom of the Old Testament.”<ref>Livia Gershon, "[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/destruction-of-city-by-space-rock-may-have-inspired-biblical-story-of-sodom-180978734/ Ancient City’s Destruction by Exploding Space Rock May Have Inspired Biblical Story of Sodom]," ''Smithsonian Magazine'' (22 September 2021). This summary is based on the report found in Ted E. Bunch ''et al.'', "A Tunguska sized airburst destroyed Tall el-Hammam a Middle Bronze Age city in the Jordan Valley near the Dead Sea," Nature Scientific Reports 11/18632 (2021), https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-021-97778-3.</ref>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

			{{To learn more box:Sodom and Gomorrah}}

	=What is the best way to understand the story of Jonah and the Whale scientifically?=		=What is the best way to understand the story of Jonah and the Whale scientifically?=

GregSmith at 03:06, 29 May 2024

2024-05-29T03:06:53Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:06, 29 May 2024
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	\|link=The Flood#Doesn't the Bible say that the continents were divided immediately after the Flood?		\|link=The Flood#Doesn't the Bible say that the continents were divided immediately after the Flood?
	\|subject=Peleg		\|subject=Peleg
	\|summary=		\|summary=There is no serious biblical scholarship that reads these verses as implying a rapid drift of the continents—partly because such an idea would have been utterly foreign to writers in that time period. So what does it mean?
	}}		}}