The Bible/Lost scripture - Revision history

DavidSmith: DavidSmith moved page Mormonism and the Bible/Lost scripture to The Bible/Lost scripture: wiki update project

2023-11-30T23:12:24Z

DavidSmith moved page Mormonism and the Bible/Lost scripture to The Bible/Lost scripture: wiki update project

← Older revision	Revision as of 23:12, 30 November 2023
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RogerNicholson: Redirected page to Question: What does the Book of Mormon mean when it says that "plain and precious" things have been taken out of the bible?

2017-04-11T23:55:57Z

Redirected page to Question: What does the Book of Mormon mean when it says that "plain and precious" things have been taken out of the bible?

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	~~{{Resource Title\|Mormonism and lost scriptures mentioned in the Holy Bible}}~~
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	~~{{:~~Question: What does the Book of Mormon mean when it says that "plain and precious" things have been taken out of the bible?}}
	~~</onlyinclude>~~
	~~{{CriticalSources}}~~
	~~{{endnotes sources}}~~

	~~{{FurtherReading}}~~

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RogerNicholson at 18:20, 4 April 2017

2017-04-04T18:20:39Z

Show changes

JordanLatimer: /* Examples of "lost scripture" */

2015-03-23T05:12:03Z

Examples of "lost scripture"

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	\|Sayings of the Seers\|\|{{b\|2\|Chronicles\|33\|19}}		\|Sayings of the Seers\|\|{{b\|2\|Chronicles\|33\|19}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|~~lament~~ for Josiah\|\|{{b\|2\|Chronicles\|35\|25}}		\|Lament for Josiah\|\|{{b\|2\|Chronicles\|35\|25}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Paul's epistle to Corinthians before our "1 Corinthians"\|\|{{b\|1\|Corinthians\|5\|9}}		\|Paul's epistle to Corinthians before our "1 Corinthians"\|\|{{b\|1\|Corinthians\|5\|9}}

GregSmith: /* Examples of canonical differences among Bibles */

2014-05-20T17:30:09Z

Examples of canonical differences among Bibles

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:30, 20 May 2014
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	*Jude		*Jude
	*2 John		*2 John
	*Those disputed by Rome (see above)~~<ref>~~<ref>Mike Ash, "[http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochures/Is_the_Bible_Complete.pdf Is the Bible Complete?]" (FAIR Brochure): 1.</ref>		*Those disputed by Rome (see above)<ref>Mike Ash, "[http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochures/Is_the_Bible_Complete.pdf Is the Bible Complete?]" (FAIR Brochure): 1.</ref>
	\|-		\|-
	\|Syriac Peshitta\|\|Excluded from the canon:		\|Syriac Peshitta\|\|Excluded from the canon:

GregSmith at 17:29, 20 May 2014

2014-05-20T17:29:42Z

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	* {{MA1\|author=J. Goodson\|article=[http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/BOMP&CISOPTR=1315&REC=19 Dear Sir]\|vol=3\|num=1\|date=October 1836\|start=397–99}}		* {{MA1\|author=J. Goodson\|article=[http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/BOMP&CISOPTR=1315&REC=19 Dear Sir]\|vol=3\|num=1\|date=October 1836\|start=397–99}}

	=={{Endnotes label}}==		== ==
			{{Endnotes label}}

	<references />		<references />

GregSmith at 17:29, 20 May 2014

2014-05-20T17:29:20Z

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	:"The Book of Mormon teaches that "plain and precious" things have been taken out of the Bible (1 Nephi 13:24-29). Both Latter-day Saints and Evangelicals often assume this means that the present biblical books went through a cut-and-paste process to remove these things...However, I see no reason to understand things this way, and in fact I it is largely erroneous. The pertinent passages from the Book of Mormon give no reason to assume that the process of removing plain and precious things from Scripture was one exclusively or even primarily of editing the books of the present canon. The bulk of the text-critical evidence is against a process of wholesale cutting and pasting...		:"The Book of Mormon teaches that "plain and precious" things have been taken out of the Bible (1 Nephi 13:24-29). Both Latter-day Saints and Evangelicals often assume this means that the present biblical books went through a cut-and-paste process to remove these things...However, I see no reason to understand things this way, and in fact I it is largely erroneous. The pertinent passages from the Book of Mormon give no reason to assume that the process of removing plain and precious things from Scripture was one exclusively or even primarily of editing the books of the present canon. The bulk of the text-critical evidence is against a process of wholesale cutting and pasting...
	:It is clear to me, therefore, that "the plain and precious truths" were not necessarily in the originals of the ''present'' biblical books, and I suspect that the editing process that excised them did not consist solely or even primarily of cutting and pasting the present books, but rather largely in keeping ''other'' apostolic or prophetic writings from being included in the canon. In other words, "the plain and precious truths" were primarily excised not by means of controlling the ''text'', but by means of controlling the ''canon''."{{~~ref~~\|~~robinson1~~}}		:It is clear to me, therefore, that "the plain and precious truths" were not necessarily in the originals of the ''present'' biblical books, and I suspect that the editing process that excised them did not consist solely or even primarily of cutting and pasting the present books, but rather largely in keeping ''other'' apostolic or prophetic writings from being included in the canon. In other words, "the plain and precious truths" were primarily excised not by means of controlling the ''text'', but by means of controlling the ''canon''."<ref> {{HowWide1\|start=63}}</ref>

	So called "lost scripture" is in reference to writings mentioned or cited within the present Biblical record, but which are not in the Bible itself. Some of these writings are known from other sources, and some are not.		So called "lost scripture" is in reference to writings mentioned or cited within the present Biblical record, but which are not in the Bible itself. Some of these writings are known from other sources, and some are not.
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	\|1 Enoch 1:19 and The Assumption of Moses\|\|{{b\|\|Jude\|1\|14-15}}		\|1 Enoch 1:19 and The Assumption of Moses\|\|{{b\|\|Jude\|1\|14-15}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|1 Enoch\|\|"It influenced Matthew, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, Hebrews, 1 John, Jude (which quotes it directly) and Revelation (with numerous points of contact)…in molding New Testament doctrines concerning the nature of the Messiah, the Son of Man, the messianic kingdom, demonology, the future, resurrection, the final judgment, the whole eschatological theater, and symbolism."{{~~ref\|enochwide1~~}}		\|1 Enoch\|\|"It influenced Matthew, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, Hebrews, 1 John, Jude (which quotes it directly) and Revelation (with numerous points of contact)…in molding New Testament doctrines concerning the nature of the Messiah, the Son of Man, the messianic kingdom, demonology, the future, resurrection, the final judgment, the whole eschatological theater, and symbolism."<ref>E. Isaac, "1 (Ethiopic Apocalypse of) Enoch," in ''The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha'', ed. J. H. Charlesworth, 2 vols, (Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday, 1983), 1:10; cited in {{ComparingLDSBeliefs}}</ref>
	\|}		\|}

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	* Epistle of Barnabas		* Epistle of Barnabas
	* Epistle of Clement		* Epistle of Clement
	* The Preaching of Peter{{~~ref\|pr2~~}}		* The Preaching of Peter<ref>{{ComparingLDSBeliefs}}</ref>
	\|-		\|-
	\|Roman Christians (circa A.D. 200)\|\|Included in canon:		\|Roman Christians (circa A.D. 200)\|\|Included in canon:
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	*1 Peter		*1 Peter
	*2 Peter		*2 Peter
	*3 John{{ref~~\|ash1}}~~		*3 John<ref>Mike Ash, "[http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochures/Is_the_Bible_Complete.pdf Is the Bible Complete?]" (FAIR Brochure): 1.</ref>
	\|-		\|-
	\|Origen (''date'')\|\|Included in canon:		\|Origen (''date'')\|\|Included in canon:
	* Epistle of Barnabas		* Epistle of Barnabas
	* Shepherd of Hermas{{~~ref\|pr3~~}}		* Shepherd of Hermas<ref>{{ComparingLDSBeliefs}}; citing Clyde L. Manschreck, ''A History of Christianity in the World'', 2d. ed. (Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice Hall, 1985), 52.</ref>
	Excluded from canon:<br>		Excluded from canon:<br>
	*James		*James
	*Jude		*Jude
	*2 John		*2 John
	*Those disputed by Rome (see above){{ref~~\|ash2}}~~		*Those disputed by Rome (see above)<ref><ref>Mike Ash, "[http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochures/Is_the_Bible_Complete.pdf Is the Bible Complete?]" (FAIR Brochure): 1.</ref>
	\|-		\|-
	\|Syriac Peshitta\|\|Excluded from the canon:		\|Syriac Peshitta\|\|Excluded from the canon:
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	* 3 John		* 3 John
	* Jude		* Jude
	* Revelation of St. John{{~~ref\|syriac1~~}}		* Revelation of St. John<ref>{{FR-11-2-4}}; citing Kurt Aland, ''Nestle-Aland Greek-English New Testament'', 5th ed. (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1990), 769–75; see also Craig A. Evans, ''Noncanonical Writings and New Testament Interpretation'' (Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 1992), 190–219, who provides almost 1,500 quotations, allusions, and parallels between noncanonical sources and the New Testament.</ref>
	\|-		\|-
	\|Armenian Church\|\|Included in canon:		\|Armenian Church\|\|Included in canon:
	* 3 Corinthians		* 3 Corinthians
	Excluded from canon:<br>		Excluded from canon:<br>
	* Revelation of St. John prior to 12th century{{~~ref\|armenian1~~}}		* Revelation of St. John prior to 12th century<ref>{{FR-11-2-4}}</ref>
	\|-		\|-
	\|Ethiopian Church\|\|Included in canon:		\|Ethiopian Church\|\|Included in canon:
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	* Clement		* Clement
	* Book of the Covenant		* Book of the Covenant
	* Didascalia{{~~ref\|ethiopian1~~}}		* Didascalia<ref>{{FR-11-2-4}}</ref>
	\|-		\|-
	\|Martin Luther\|\|Considered Epistle of James "a right strawy epistle."{{ref~~\|straw1}}~~ Also didn't agree with Sermon on the Mount because didn't match his "grace only" theology.		\|Martin Luther\|\|Considered Epistle of James "a right strawy epistle."<ref>Timothy George, "[http://www.sbts.edu/pdf/sbjt_2000Fall3.pdf 'A Right Strawy Epistle': Reformation Perspectives on James]," ''The Southern Baptist Journal of Theology'' (Fall 2000), 20–31.</ref> Also didn't agree with Sermon on the Mount because didn't match his "grace only" theology.
	\|-		\|-
	\|}		\|}
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	The clear evidence of "lost scripture" from the Bible was a common early LDS argument. See, for example:		The clear evidence of "lost scripture" from the Bible was a common early LDS argument. See, for example:
	* {{MA1\|author=J. Goodson\|article=~~Dear Sir\|vol=3\|num=1\|date=October 1836\|start=397–99}} {{link\|url=~~http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/BOMP&CISOPTR=1315&REC=19}}		* {{MA1\|author=J. Goodson\|article=[http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/BOMP&CISOPTR=1315&REC=19 Dear Sir]\|vol=3\|num=1\|date=October 1836\|start=397–99}}

	=={{Endnotes label}}==		=={{Endnotes label}}==

	~~#{{note\|robinson1}} {{HowWide1\|start=63}}~~		<references />
	#{{note\|enochwide1}} E. Isaac, "1 (Ethiopic Apocalypse of) Enoch," in ''The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha'', ed. J. H. Charlesworth, 2 vols, (Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday, 1983), 1:10; cited in {{ComparingLDSBeliefs}}
	~~#{{note\|pr2}} {{ComparingLDSBeliefs}}~~
	~~#{{note\|ash1}} Mike Ash, "Is the Bible Complete?": 1. {{pdflink\|url=http:~~/~~/www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochures/Is_the_Bible_Complete.pdf}}~~
	~~#{{note\|pr3}} {{ComparingLDSBeliefs}}; citing Clyde L. Manschreck, ''A History of Christianity in the World'', 2d. ed. (Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice Hall, 1985), 52.~~
	~~#{{note\|ash2}} Mike Ash, "Is the Bible Complete?": 1. {{pdflink\|url=http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochures/Is_the_Bible_Complete.pdf}}~~
	#{{note\|syriac1}} {{FR-11-2-4}}; citing Kurt Aland, ''Nestle-Aland Greek-English New Testament'', 5th ed. (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1990), 769–75; see also Craig A. Evans, ''Noncanonical Writings and New Testament Interpretation'' (Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 1992), 190–219, who provides almost 1,500 quotations, allusions, and parallels between noncanonical sources and the New Testament.
	~~#{{note\|armenian1}}{{FR-11-2-4}}~~
	~~#{{note\|ethiopian1}}{{FR-11-2-4}}~~
	#{{note\|straw1}} Timothy George, "'A Right Strawy Epistle': Reformation Perspectives on James," ''The Southern Baptist Journal of Theology'' (Fall 2000), 20–31.{{pdflink\|url=http://www.sbts.edu/pdf/sbjt_2000Fall3.pdf}}

	{{FurtherReading}}		{{FurtherReading}}

RogerNicholson: mod

2013-09-12T02:52:22Z

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			{{Resource Title\|Lost Scriptures Mentioned in the Bible}}
	{\| style="margin: 0em 0em 0em 0em; border: 0px; align="right" cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0		{\| style="margin: 0em 0em 0em 0em; border: 0px; align="right" cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0
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	~~{{Resource Title\|Lost Scriptures Mentioned in the Bible}}~~		== ==
			{{Question label}}
	=={{Question label}}==

	I've heard about "lost scripture" mentioned in the Bible. What does the Book of Mormon mean when it says that "plain and precious" things have been taken out of the bible? What is this about, and what implications does it have for the doctrine of Biblical [[Mormonism and the Bible/Inerrancy\|inerrancy]] and [[Mormonism and the Bible/Completeness\|sufficiency]]?		I've heard about "lost scripture" mentioned in the Bible. What does the Book of Mormon mean when it says that "plain and precious" things have been taken out of the bible? What is this about, and what implications does it have for the doctrine of Biblical [[Mormonism and the Bible/Inerrancy\|inerrancy]] and [[Mormonism and the Bible/Completeness\|sufficiency]]?
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	{{CriticalSources}}		{{CriticalSources}}

	=={{Conclusion label}}==		== ==
			{{Conclusion label}}

	1. Biblical writers considered writings not in the present canon to be scriptural writings.<br>		1. Biblical writers considered writings not in the present canon to be scriptural writings.<br>

RogerNicholson: mod

2013-09-03T03:16:11Z

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	{{~~question~~}}		{{Resource Title\|Lost Scriptures Mentioned in the Bible}}

	=={{Question label}}==		=={{Question label}}==

DanaRepouille at 01:11, 19 August 2012

2012-08-19T01:11:59Z

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	!Lost writing!!Biblical citation to the lost writing		!Lost writing!!Biblical citation to the lost writing
	\|-		\|-
	\| style="width:50%" valign="top"\| Book of the Wars of the Lord \|\|{{s\|\|Numbers\|21\|14}}		\| style="width:50%" valign="top"\| Book of the Wars of the Lord \|\|{{b\|\|Numbers\|21\|14}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Book of Jasher\|\|{{s\|\|Joshua\|10\|13}}, {{s\|2\|Samuel\|1\|18}}		\|Book of Jasher\|\|{{b\|\|Joshua\|10\|13}}, {{b\|2\|Samuel\|1\|18}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Book of the Acts of Solomon\|\|{{s\|1\|Kings\|11\|41}}		\|Book of the Acts of Solomon\|\|{{b\|1\|Kings\|11\|41}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Book of Samuel the Seer\|\|{{s\|1\|Chronicles\|29\|29}}		\|Book of Samuel the Seer\|\|{{b\|1\|Chronicles\|29\|29}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Book of Gad the Seer\|\|{{s\|1\|Chronicles\|29\|29}}		\|Book of Gad the Seer\|\|{{b\|1\|Chronicles\|29\|29}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Book of Nathan the Prophet\|\|{{s\|1\|Chronicles\|29\|29}}, {{s\|2\|Chronicles\|9\|29}}		\|Book of Nathan the Prophet\|\|{{b\|1\|Chronicles\|29\|29}}, {{b\|2\|Chronicles\|9\|29}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Prophecy of Ahijah\|\|{{s\|2\|Chronicles\|9\|29}}		\|Prophecy of Ahijah\|\|{{b\|2\|Chronicles\|9\|29}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Visions of Iddo the Seer\|\|{{s\|2\|Chronicles\|9\|29}}, {{s\|2\|Chronicles\|12\|15}}, {{s\|2\|Chronicles\|13\|22}}		\|Visions of Iddo the Seer\|\|{{b\|2\|Chronicles\|9\|29}}, {{b\|2\|Chronicles\|12\|15}}, {{b\|2\|Chronicles\|13\|22}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Book of Shemaiah\|\|{{s\|2\|Chronicles\|12\|15}}		\|Book of Shemaiah\|\|{{b\|2\|Chronicles\|12\|15}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Book of Jehu\|\|{{s\|2\|Chronicles\|20\|34}}		\|Book of Jehu\|\|{{b\|2\|Chronicles\|20\|34}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Sayings of the Seers\|\|{{s\|2\|Chronicles\|33\|19}}		\|Sayings of the Seers\|\|{{b\|2\|Chronicles\|33\|19}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|lament for Josiah\|\|{{s\|2\|Chronicles\|35\|25}}		\|lament for Josiah\|\|{{b\|2\|Chronicles\|35\|25}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Paul's epistle to Corinthians before our "1 Corinthians"\|\|{{s\|1\|Corinthians\|5\|9}}		\|Paul's epistle to Corinthians before our "1 Corinthians"\|\|{{b\|1\|Corinthians\|5\|9}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Paul's possible earlier Ephesians epistle\|\|{{s\|\|Ephesians\|3\|3}}		\|Paul's possible earlier Ephesians epistle\|\|{{b\|\|Ephesians\|3\|3}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|Paul's epistle to Church at Laodicea\|\|{{s\|\|Colossians\|4\|16}}		\|Paul's epistle to Church at Laodicea\|\|{{b\|\|Colossians\|4\|16}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|1 Enoch 1:19 and The Assumption of Moses\|\|{{s\|\|Jude\|1\|14-15}}		\|1 Enoch 1:19 and The Assumption of Moses\|\|{{b\|\|Jude\|1\|14-15}}
	\|-		\|-
	\|1 Enoch\|\|"It influenced Matthew, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, Hebrews, 1 John, Jude (which quotes it directly) and Revelation (with numerous points of contact)…in molding New Testament doctrines concerning the nature of the Messiah, the Son of Man, the messianic kingdom, demonology, the future, resurrection, the final judgment, the whole eschatological theater, and symbolism."{{ref\|enochwide1}}		\|1 Enoch\|\|"It influenced Matthew, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, Hebrews, 1 John, Jude (which quotes it directly) and Revelation (with numerous points of contact)…in molding New Testament doctrines concerning the nature of the Messiah, the Son of Man, the messianic kingdom, demonology, the future, resurrection, the final judgment, the whole eschatological theater, and symbolism."{{ref\|enochwide1}}