Template:SourceOfMagic - Revision history

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	{{endnotes sources}}		{{endnotes sources}}

	~~[[fr:Modèle:SourceOfMagic]]~~
	</noinclude>		</noinclude>

RogerNicholson at 15:28, 15 November 2014

2014-11-15T15:28:47Z

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	{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith and his contemporaries believe in supernatural entities with real power?}}		{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith and his contemporaries believe in supernatural entities with real power?}}
			</onlyinclude>
			{{endnotes sources}}

	[[fr:Modèle:SourceOfMagic]]		[[fr:Modèle:SourceOfMagic]]
	</noinclude>		</noinclude>

RogerNicholson at 15:27, 15 November 2014

2014-11-15T15:27:19Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:27, 15 November 2014
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	{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith and his contemporaries believe in supernatural entities with real power?}}		{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith and his contemporaries believe in supernatural entities with real power?}}

	~~===Divine blessing===~~
	It is further clear that those who used divinization by rods, for example, believed that the rod's natural ability also required the grace of God to operate. Hence, practitioners would consecrate their rods, and pray to God to bless their efforts.<ref>See discussion in {{Ashurst-McGee-Thesis\|start=140, 182\|end=192}}</ref> Of such matters, Oliver Cowdery was told in an early revelation, "without faith you can do nothing."<ref>{{BoC\|7\|4}}</ref> Like any natural ability, Joseph believed that the gift and tools of seership (in the broader sense) could be misused. As he told Brigham Young, "most...who do find [a seer stone] make an evil use of it."<ref>{{MS\|start=118\|end=119\|date=20 February 1864\|article=History of Brigham Young\|author=Joseph Smith, cited by Brigham Young}}; cited in {{Ashurst-McGee-Thesis1\|start=184}}</ref> And, Emma Smith's hostile brother Alvah would later remember that Joseph told him "that his gift in seeing with a [seer] stone and hat, was a gift from God."<ref>"Mormonism," ''The Susquehanna Register, and Northern Pennsylvanian'' (Montrose, Pennsylvania) (1 May 1834): 1, column 4; cited in {{Ashurst-McGee-Thesis1\|start=184}}<noinclude></ref><noinclude>
	[[fr:Modèle:SourceOfMagic]]		[[fr:Modèle:SourceOfMagic]]
	</noinclude>		</noinclude>

RogerNicholson: /* Source of the power? */

2014-11-15T15:26:18Z

Source of the power?

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:26, 15 November 2014
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	~~===Source of the power?===~~		{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith and his contemporaries believe in supernatural entities with real power?}}

	~~So, did~~ Joseph Smith and his contemporaries believe in supernatural entities with real power? Yes—and so does every Christian, Jew, or Muslim who believes in God, angels, and divine power to reveal, heal, etc. However, to label these beliefs as "magic" is to beg the question—to argue that Joseph believed in and sought help from powers ''besides'' God. Nobody disputes that Joseph and his family believed in the Bible, which condemns divination and witchcraft:
	~~<blockquote>~~
	There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. {{b\|\|Deuteronomy\|18\|10}}
	~~</blockquote>~~

	Therefore, Joseph and his family viewed folk magic and the use of seer stones as not falling under this Biblical condemnation. It is clear that Joseph and his contemporaries believed that one could gain knowledge from such activities as dowsing (using a rod to find water, ore, or buried treasure) and the use of the seer stones. This does not mean, however, that Joseph understood such activities to be a form of magic.

	In Joseph's day, the power of (for example) dowsing was seen as a manifestation of "how the world worked." An article published in 1825 described how the downward bob of a divining rode "closely resembles the dip of the magnetic needle, when traversing a bed or ore."<ref>"The Divining Rod," ''The Worchester Magazine and Historical Journal'' (October 1825): 29; cited in {{Ashurst-McGee-Thesis1\|start=66}}</ref> A journal of science reported the idea that "the rod is influenced by ores."<ref>"The Divining Rod," ''The American Journal of Science and Arts'' (October 1826): 204; cited in {{Ashurst-McGee-Thesis\|start=65\|end=66}}</ref>

	An early British dowser denounced the idea that dowsing for ore was based on magic. "it [the rod] guided mee to the Orifice of a lead mine. [The rod is] of kin to the Load-stone [magnet], drawing Iron to it by a secret vertue, inbred by nature, and ''not by any conjuration as some have fondly imagined.''"<ref>Gabriel Platts, ''A Discovery of Subterraneal Treasure'' (London: 1639), 11–13, emphasis added; cited in {{Ashurst-McGee-Thesis1\|start=66}}</ref>

	Thus, divining was seen in these examples as a manifestation of natural law. Just as one might use a compass or lode-stone to find true north, without understanding the principles or mathematics of magnetism which underlay it, so one could use dowsing as a tool, without understanding the principles by which it operated.

	===Divine blessing===		===Divine blessing===

GregSmith at 02:51, 25 May 2014

2014-05-25T02:51:47Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:51, 25 May 2014
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	Therefore, Joseph and his family viewed folk magic and the use of seer stones as not falling under this Biblical condemnation. It is clear that Joseph and his contemporaries believed that one could gain knowledge from such activities as dowsing (using a rod to find water, ore, or buried treasure) and the use of the seer stones. This does not mean, however, that Joseph understood such activities to be a form of magic.		Therefore, Joseph and his family viewed folk magic and the use of seer stones as not falling under this Biblical condemnation. It is clear that Joseph and his contemporaries believed that one could gain knowledge from such activities as dowsing (using a rod to find water, ore, or buried treasure) and the use of the seer stones. This does not mean, however, that Joseph understood such activities to be a form of magic.

	In Joseph's day, the power of (for example) dowsing was seen as a manifestation of "how the world worked." An article published in 1825 described how the downward bob of a divining rode "closely resembles the dip of the magnetic needle, when traversing a bed or ore."{{~~ref~~\|~~mcgee1templateref~~}} A journal of science reported the idea that "the rod is influenced by ores."{{~~ref~~\|~~mcgee2templateref~~}}		In Joseph's day, the power of (for example) dowsing was seen as a manifestation of "how the world worked." An article published in 1825 described how the downward bob of a divining rode "closely resembles the dip of the magnetic needle, when traversing a bed or ore."<ref>"The Divining Rod," ''The Worchester Magazine and Historical Journal'' (October 1825): 29; cited in {{Ashurst-McGee-Thesis1\|start=66}}</ref> A journal of science reported the idea that "the rod is influenced by ores."<ref>"The Divining Rod," ''The American Journal of Science and Arts'' (October 1826): 204; cited in {{Ashurst-McGee-Thesis\|start=65\|end=66}}</ref>

	An early British dowser denounced the idea that dowsing for ore was based on magic. "it [the rod] guided mee to the Orifice of a lead mine. [The rod is] of kin to the Load-stone [magnet], drawing Iron to it by a secret vertue, inbred by nature, and ''not by any conjuration as some have fondly imagined.''"{{~~ref~~\|~~mcgee3templateref~~}}		An early British dowser denounced the idea that dowsing for ore was based on magic. "it [the rod] guided mee to the Orifice of a lead mine. [The rod is] of kin to the Load-stone [magnet], drawing Iron to it by a secret vertue, inbred by nature, and ''not by any conjuration as some have fondly imagined.''"<ref>Gabriel Platts, ''A Discovery of Subterraneal Treasure'' (London: 1639), 11–13, emphasis added; cited in {{Ashurst-McGee-Thesis1\|start=66}}</ref>

	Thus, divining was seen in these examples as a manifestation of natural law. Just as one might use a compass or lode-stone to find true north, without understanding the principles or mathematics of magnetism which underlay it, so one could use dowsing as a tool, without understanding the principles by which it operated.		Thus, divining was seen in these examples as a manifestation of natural law. Just as one might use a compass or lode-stone to find true north, without understanding the principles or mathematics of magnetism which underlay it, so one could use dowsing as a tool, without understanding the principles by which it operated.

	===Divine blessing===		===Divine blessing===
	It is further clear that those who used divinization by rods, for example, believed that the rod's natural ability also required the grace of God to operate. Hence, practitioners would consecrate their rods, and pray to God to bless their efforts.{{~~ref~~\|~~mcgee4templateref~~}} Of such matters, Oliver Cowdery was told in an early revelation, "without faith you can do nothing."{{~~ref~~\|~~boc1reftemplate~~}} Like any natural ability, Joseph believed that the gift and tools of seership (in the broader sense) could be misused. As he told Brigham Young, "most...who do find [a seer stone] make an evil use of it."{{~~ref~~\|~~by1~~}} And, Emma Smith's hostile brother Alvah would later remember that Joseph told him "that his gift in seeing with a [seer] stone and hat, was a gift from God."{{~~ref~~\|~~alvah1~~}}<noinclude>		It is further clear that those who used divinization by rods, for example, believed that the rod's natural ability also required the grace of God to operate. Hence, practitioners would consecrate their rods, and pray to God to bless their efforts.<ref>See discussion in {{Ashurst-McGee-Thesis\|start=140, 182\|end=192}}</ref> Of such matters, Oliver Cowdery was told in an early revelation, "without faith you can do nothing."<ref>{{BoC\|7\|4}}</ref> Like any natural ability, Joseph believed that the gift and tools of seership (in the broader sense) could be misused. As he told Brigham Young, "most...who do find [a seer stone] make an evil use of it."<ref>{{MS\|start=118\|end=119\|date=20 February 1864\|article=History of Brigham Young\|author=Joseph Smith, cited by Brigham Young}}; cited in {{Ashurst-McGee-Thesis1\|start=184}}</ref> And, Emma Smith's hostile brother Alvah would later remember that Joseph told him "that his gift in seeing with a [seer] stone and hat, was a gift from God."<ref>"Mormonism," ''The Susquehanna Register, and Northern Pennsylvanian'' (Montrose, Pennsylvania) (1 May 1834): 1, column 4; cited in {{Ashurst-McGee-Thesis1\|start=184}}<noinclude></ref><noinclude>
	[[fr:Modèle:SourceOfMagic]]		[[fr:Modèle:SourceOfMagic]]
	</noinclude>		</noinclude>

DanaRepouille: /* Source of the power? */

2012-08-18T01:52:43Z

Source of the power?

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:52, 18 August 2012
Line 3:		Line 3:
	So, did Joseph Smith and his contemporaries believe in supernatural entities with real power? Yes—and so does every Christian, Jew, or Muslim who believes in God, angels, and divine power to reveal, heal, etc. However, to label these beliefs as "magic" is to beg the question—to argue that Joseph believed in and sought help from powers ''besides'' God. Nobody disputes that Joseph and his family believed in the Bible, which condemns divination and witchcraft:		So, did Joseph Smith and his contemporaries believe in supernatural entities with real power? Yes—and so does every Christian, Jew, or Muslim who believes in God, angels, and divine power to reveal, heal, etc. However, to label these beliefs as "magic" is to beg the question—to argue that Joseph believed in and sought help from powers ''besides'' God. Nobody disputes that Joseph and his family believed in the Bible, which condemns divination and witchcraft:
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. {{s\|\|Deuteronomy\|18\|10}}		There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. {{b\|\|Deuteronomy\|18\|10}}
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

GregSmith: robot Adding: fr:Modèle:SourceOfMagic

2010-05-04T04:47:08Z

robot Adding: fr:Modèle:SourceOfMagic

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:47, 4 May 2010
Line 15:		Line 15:

	===Divine blessing===		===Divine blessing===
	It is further clear that those who used divinization by rods, for example, believed that the rod's natural ability also required the grace of God to operate. Hence, practitioners would consecrate their rods, and pray to God to bless their efforts.{{ref\|mcgee4templateref}} Of such matters, Oliver Cowdery was told in an early revelation, "without faith you can do nothing."{{ref\|boc1reftemplate}} Like any natural ability, Joseph believed that the gift and tools of seership (in the broader sense) could be misused. As he told Brigham Young, "most...who do find [a seer stone] make an evil use of it."{{ref\|by1}} And, Emma Smith's hostile brother Alvah would later remember that Joseph told him "that his gift in seeing with a [seer] stone and hat, was a gift from God."{{ref\|alvah1}}		It is further clear that those who used divinization by rods, for example, believed that the rod's natural ability also required the grace of God to operate. Hence, practitioners would consecrate their rods, and pray to God to bless their efforts.{{ref\|mcgee4templateref}} Of such matters, Oliver Cowdery was told in an early revelation, "without faith you can do nothing."{{ref\|boc1reftemplate}} Like any natural ability, Joseph believed that the gift and tools of seership (in the broader sense) could be misused. As he told Brigham Young, "most...who do find [a seer stone] make an evil use of it."{{ref\|by1}} And, Emma Smith's hostile brother Alvah would later remember that Joseph told him "that his gift in seeing with a [seer] stone and hat, was a gift from God."{{ref\|alvah1}}<noinclude>
			[[fr:Modèle:SourceOfMagic]]
			</noinclude>

RogerNicholson: mod

2010-02-10T05:13:23Z

mod

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:13, 10 February 2010
Line 1:		Line 1:
	===Source of the power?===		===Source of the power?===

	It is clear that Joseph and his contemporaries believed that one could gain knowledge from such activities as dowsing (using a rod to find water, ore, or buried treasure) and the use of the seer stones. This does not mean, however, that Joseph understood such activities to be a form of magic.		So, did Joseph Smith and his contemporaries believe in supernatural entities with real power? Yes—and so does every Christian, Jew, or Muslim who believes in God, angels, and divine power to reveal, heal, etc. However, to label these beliefs as "magic" is to beg the question—to argue that Joseph believed in and sought help from powers ''besides'' God. Nobody disputes that Joseph and his family believed in the Bible, which condemns divination and witchcraft:
			<blockquote>
			There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. {{s\|\|Deuteronomy\|18\|10}}
			</blockquote>

			Therefore, Joseph and his family viewed folk magic and the use of seer stones as not falling under this Biblical condemnation. It is clear that Joseph and his contemporaries believed that one could gain knowledge from such activities as dowsing (using a rod to find water, ore, or buried treasure) and the use of the seer stones. This does not mean, however, that Joseph understood such activities to be a form of magic.

	In Joseph's day, the power of (for example) dowsing was seen as a manifestation of "how the world worked." An article published in 1825 described how the downward bob of a divining rode "closely resembles the dip of the magnetic needle, when traversing a bed or ore."{{ref\|mcgee1templateref}} A journal of science reported the idea that "the rod is influenced by ores."{{ref\|mcgee2templateref}}		In Joseph's day, the power of (for example) dowsing was seen as a manifestation of "how the world worked." An article published in 1825 described how the downward bob of a divining rode "closely resembles the dip of the magnetic needle, when traversing a bed or ore."{{ref\|mcgee1templateref}} A journal of science reported the idea that "the rod is influenced by ores."{{ref\|mcgee2templateref}}

GregSmith: /* Divine blessing */

2007-09-23T01:45:21Z

Divine blessing

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:45, 23 September 2007
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	===Divine blessing===		===Divine blessing===
	It is further clear that those who used divinization by rods, for example, believed that the rod's natural ability also required the grace of God to operate. Hence, practitioners would consecrate their rods, and pray to God to bless their efforts.{{ref\|mcgee4templateref}} Of such matters, Oliver Cowdery was told in an early revelation, "without faith you can do nothing."{{ref\|boc1reftemplate}} Like any natural ability, Joseph believed that the gift and tools of seership (in the broader sense) could be misused. As he told Brigham Young, "most...who do find [a seer stone] make an evil use of it."{{ref\|by1}}		It is further clear that those who used divinization by rods, for example, believed that the rod's natural ability also required the grace of God to operate. Hence, practitioners would consecrate their rods, and pray to God to bless their efforts.{{ref\|mcgee4templateref}} Of such matters, Oliver Cowdery was told in an early revelation, "without faith you can do nothing."{{ref\|boc1reftemplate}} Like any natural ability, Joseph believed that the gift and tools of seership (in the broader sense) could be misused. As he told Brigham Young, "most...who do find [a seer stone] make an evil use of it."{{ref\|by1}} And, Emma Smith's hostile brother Alvah would later remember that Joseph told him "that his gift in seeing with a [seer] stone and hat, was a gift from God."{{ref\|alvah1}}

GregSmith at 22:15, 22 September 2007

2007-09-22T22:15:04Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:15, 22 September 2007
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	===Divine blessing===		===Divine blessing===
	It is further clear that those who used divinization by rods, for example, believed that the rod's natural ability also required the grace of God to operate. Hence, practitioners would consecrate their rods, and pray to God to bless their efforts.{{ref\|mcgee4templateref}} Of such matters, Oliver Cowdery was told in an early revelation, "without faith you can do nothing."{{ref\|boc1reftemplate}}		It is further clear that those who used divinization by rods, for example, believed that the rod's natural ability also required the grace of God to operate. Hence, practitioners would consecrate their rods, and pray to God to bless their efforts.{{ref\|mcgee4templateref}} Of such matters, Oliver Cowdery was told in an early revelation, "without faith you can do nothing."{{ref\|boc1reftemplate}} Like any natural ability, Joseph believed that the gift and tools of seership (in the broader sense) could be misused. As he told Brigham Young, "most...who do find [a seer stone] make an evil use of it."{{ref\|by1}}