Plan of salvation/Three degrees of glory/Swedenborg - Revision history

RogerNicholson: Redirected page to Question: Did Joseph Smith derive the idea of "three degrees of glory" from Emanuel Swedenborg's book, ''Heaven and its Wonders and Hell''?

2017-04-09T23:51:50Z

Redirected page to Question: Did Joseph Smith derive the idea of "three degrees of glory" from Emanuel Swedenborg's book, ''Heaven and its Wonders and Hell''?

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:51, 9 April 2017
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	~~{{Resource Title\|Did Joseph Smith derive the idea of "three degrees of glory" from Emanuel Swedenborg's book, <em>Heaven and its Wonders and Hell</em>?}}~~
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	~~{{:~~Question: Did Joseph Smith derive the idea of "three degrees of glory" from Emanuel Swedenborg's book, ''Heaven and its Wonders and Hell''?}}
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	~~[[fr:Plan of salvation/Three degrees of glory/Swedenborg]]~~

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RogerNicholson at 15:31, 13 May 2016

2016-05-13T15:31:53Z

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	{{Resource Title\|Did Joseph Smith derive the idea of "three degrees of glory" from Emanuel Swedenborg's book, <em>Heaven and its Wonders and Hell</em>?}}		{{Resource Title\|Did Joseph Smith derive the idea of "three degrees of glory" from Emanuel Swedenborg's book, <em>Heaven and its Wonders and Hell</em>?}}
	<onlyinclude>		<onlyinclude>
	{{epigraph\|There are three heavens, entirely distinct from each other, an inmost or third, a middle or second, and an outmost or first. These have the same order and relation to each other as the highest part of man, or his head, the middle part, or body, and the lowest, or feet; or as the upper, the middle, and the lower stories of a house. In the same order is the Divine that goes forth and descends from the Lord; consequently heave, from the necessity of order, is threefold....The Divine that flows in from the Lord and is received in the third or inmost heaven is called celestial, and in consequence the angels there are called celestial angels; the Divine that flows in from the Lord and is received in the second or middle heaven is called spiritual, and in consequence the angels there are called spiritual angels; while the Divine that flows in from the Lord and is received in the outmost or first heaven is called natural; but as the natural of that heaven, unlike the natural of the world, has the spiritual and celestial within it, that heaven is called the spiritual- and the celestial-natural, and in consequence the angels there are called the spiritual-natural and celestial-natural. Those who receive influx from the middle or second heaven, which is the spiritual heaven, are called spiritual-natural; and those who receive influx from the third or inmost heaven, which is the celestial heaven, are called celestial-natural. The spiritual-natural angels and the celestial-natural angels are distinct from each other; nevertheless they constitute one heaven, because they are in the same degree.<br><br>—Emanuel Swedenborg, ''Heaven and its Wonders and Hell''}}
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RogerNicholson at 02:53, 19 February 2015

2015-02-19T02:53:40Z

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RogerNicholson: /* */

2014-09-20T14:45:29Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:45, 20 September 2014
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	It is therefore very easy to portray similarities—but here we can read Swedenborg, and it sounds very little like Joseph Smith. Sure, we can point to some shared words—words like "degree"—but these are not unique to Joseph Smith or to Swedenborg, and so they aren't that useful in demonstrating a connection. On the surface it sounds nice, but once you spend the time to read both texts, it becomes hard to imagine one as the source for the other.		It is therefore very easy to portray similarities—but here we can read Swedenborg, and it sounds very little like Joseph Smith. Sure, we can point to some shared words—words like "degree"—but these are not unique to Joseph Smith or to Swedenborg, and so they aren't that useful in demonstrating a connection. On the surface it sounds nice, but once you spend the time to read both texts, it becomes hard to imagine one as the source for the other.

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RogerNicholson: m

2014-05-25T20:12:03Z

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	{{Resource Title\|Did Joseph get "three degrees of glory" from Emanuel Swedenborg's book, <em>Heaven and its Wonders and Hell</em>?}}		{{Resource Title\|Did Joseph get "three degrees of glory" from Emanuel Swedenborg's book, <em>Heaven and its Wonders and Hell</em>?}}
	<onlyinclude>		<onlyinclude>
			{{epigraph\|There are three heavens, entirely distinct from each other, an inmost or third, a middle or second, and an outmost or first. These have the same order and relation to each other as the highest part of man, or his head, the middle part, or body, and the lowest, or feet; or as the upper, the middle, and the lower stories of a house. In the same order is the Divine that goes forth and descends from the Lord; consequently heave, from the necessity of order, is threefold....The Divine that flows in from the Lord and is received in the third or inmost heaven is called celestial, and in consequence the angels there are called celestial angels; the Divine that flows in from the Lord and is received in the second or middle heaven is called spiritual, and in consequence the angels there are called spiritual angels; while the Divine that flows in from the Lord and is received in the outmost or first heaven is called natural; but as the natural of that heaven, unlike the natural of the world, has the spiritual and celestial within it, that heaven is called the spiritual- and the celestial-natural, and in consequence the angels there are called the spiritual-natural and celestial-natural. Those who receive influx from the middle or second heaven, which is the spiritual heaven, are called spiritual-natural; and those who receive influx from the third or inmost heaven, which is the celestial heaven, are called celestial-natural. The spiritual-natural angels and the celestial-natural angels are distinct from each other; nevertheless they constitute one heaven, because they are in the same degree.<br><br>—Emanuel Swedenborg, ''Heaven and its Wonders and Hell''}}
			{{parabreak}}
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	So, there ''are'' three heavens in Swedenborg. And there are three heavens in Joseph Smith, and there are three heavens in 1 Cor. 15. In the New Testament we have "bodies celestial" - from 1 Cor. 15:40		So, there ''are'' three heavens in Swedenborg. And there are three heavens in Joseph Smith, and there are three heavens in 1 Cor. 15. In the New Testament we have "bodies celestial" - from 1 Cor. 15:40

	:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the ~~celestialis~~ one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.		:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

	And in Section 76 we have celestial bodies (verse 78)		And in Section 76 we have celestial bodies (verse 78)

RogerNicholson: m

2014-05-25T19:57:00Z

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	*It is claimed that Joseph Smith derived the idea of "three degrees of glory" in the afterlife from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedenborg Emanuel Swedenborg's] book, ''Heaven and its Wonders and Hell From Things Heard and Seen'' (1758).{{~~ref~~\|~~fn1~~}}		*It is claimed that Joseph Smith derived the idea of "three degrees of glory" in the afterlife from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedenborg Emanuel Swedenborg's] book, ''Heaven and its Wonders and Hell From Things Heard and Seen'' (1758). <ref>The Latin title of the original was ''De Caelo et Ejus Mirabilibus et de inferno, ex Auditis et Visis.'' An on-line version is available as translated by J.C. Ager, {{link\|url=http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh00toc.html}}</ref>
	*It is claimed that Joseph Smith's practice of plural marriage was similar to Swedenborg's philosophy of "spiritual wifery."		*It is claimed that Joseph Smith's practice of plural marriage was similar to Swedenborg's philosophy of "spiritual wifery."

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	Non-LDS scholar Emma Disley indicates that the primary sources for the idea of different degrees of glory are {{b\|\|Matthew\|5\|\|}}; {{b\|\|John\|14\|2}} ("in my Father's house are many mansions"); Matt 5; John 14.2 (‘many mansions’); {{b\|1\|Corinithians\|15\|41}} (stars differ in glory from one another); {{b\|\|Matthew\|20\|1-4}} (parable of the Vineyard).		Non-LDS scholar Emma Disley indicates that the primary sources for the idea of different degrees of glory are {{b\|\|Matthew\|5\|\|}}; {{b\|\|John\|14\|2}} ("in my Father's house are many mansions"); Matt 5; John 14.2 (‘many mansions’); {{b\|1\|Corinithians\|15\|41}} (stars differ in glory from one another); {{b\|\|Matthew\|20\|1-4}} (parable of the Vineyard).

	Thus, the "raw material" for such ideas is Biblical, and noted long before Joseph or Swedenborg. Joseph received the vision of the three degrees of glory on 16 February 1832. Joseph had been involved in his translation/revision of the Bible, and indicates that this effort was what led to the reflections which preceded the vision. Joseph indicated that the vision came after reading {{b\|\|John\|5\|29}}: "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."{{~~ref~~\|~~hc1~~}}		Thus, the "raw material" for such ideas is Biblical, and noted long before Joseph or Swedenborg. Joseph received the vision of the three degrees of glory on 16 February 1832. Joseph had been involved in his translation/revision of the Bible, and indicates that this effort was what led to the reflections which preceded the vision. Joseph indicated that the vision came after reading {{b\|\|John\|5\|29}}: "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." <ref>See {{s\|\|DC\|76\|76}}; see also {{HoC\|vol=1\|start=245\|end=252}}</ref>

	===Problems with the thesis that Joseph borrowed Swedenborg's ideas===		===Problems with the thesis that Joseph borrowed Swedenborg's ideas===
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	Second, we don't really see any early charges that Joseph Smith borrowed from Swedenborg. That is, with the Book of Mormon, we have a nearly constant stream of claims that Joseph stole his ideas in the book from somewhere else—[[Book_of_Mormon/Authorship_theories/Spalding_manuscript\|Spaulding's]] manuscript, Ethan Smith's [[Book_of_Mormon/Authorship_theories/View of the Hebrews\|View of the Hebrews]], and [[Template:BoMAuthorshipWiki\|so on]]. But, we don't see anyone claiming that Joseph borrowed from Swedenborg—until D. Michael Quinn makes the claim late in the twentieth century.		Second, we don't really see any early charges that Joseph Smith borrowed from Swedenborg. That is, with the Book of Mormon, we have a nearly constant stream of claims that Joseph stole his ideas in the book from somewhere else—[[Book_of_Mormon/Authorship_theories/Spalding_manuscript\|Spaulding's]] manuscript, Ethan Smith's [[Book_of_Mormon/Authorship_theories/View of the Hebrews\|View of the Hebrews]], and [[Template:BoMAuthorshipWiki\|so on]]. But, we don't see anyone claiming that Joseph borrowed from Swedenborg—until D. Michael Quinn makes the claim late in the twentieth century.

	Joseph's early critics and readers were quite familiar with Swedenborg—one early critique of Joseph compared him to Swedenborg since both were regarded as false prophets, but said nothing about Swedenborg as a source for Joseph's ideas.{{~~ref~~\|~~clark.1~~}} A second critique complained about the lack of symbolism in Joseph's ideas. While regarding Swedenborg as a fraud and false prophet, this critic notes that while Swedenborg "was vailed in figures, tropes, and parabols: It: is not so with Joseph Smith: He speaks plainly. He lies openly; and hopes to succeed by inspiring falsehood with the fearlessness of truth...." {{~~ref~~\|~~scott.1~~}} Thus, neither critic saw the parallels which modern critics are so keen to insist were there.		Joseph's early critics and readers were quite familiar with Swedenborg—one early critique of Joseph compared him to Swedenborg since both were regarded as false prophets, but said nothing about Swedenborg as a source for Joseph's ideas. <ref>{{CriticalWork:Clark:Gleanings by the Way VI\|pages=94}}</ref> A second critique complained about the lack of symbolism in Joseph's ideas. While regarding Swedenborg as a fraud and false prophet, this critic notes that while Swedenborg "was vailed in figures, tropes, and parabols: It: is not so with Joseph Smith: He speaks plainly. He lies openly; and hopes to succeed by inspiring falsehood with the fearlessness of truth...." <ref>{{CriticalWork:Scott:Mormon Bible III\|pages=42–45}}</ref> Thus, neither critic saw the parallels which modern critics are so keen to insist were there.

	The lack of an early attack on Joseph on these grounds is thus problematic for a couple of reasons. First, while we know that Joseph probably had some contact with Swedenborg's writings by 1839, the same kinds of arguments made for early access to Swedenborg can also be made for those around Joseph. Swedenborg's work was, after all, in the public library of Joseph's home town, and it was widely published. The same kinds of individuals who would have talked to Joseph certainly could have talked to those around him—and yet we don't get the claims of his being influenced. And this means that it is quite likely that this discussion is purely of more recent manufacture.		The lack of an early attack on Joseph on these grounds is thus problematic for a couple of reasons. First, while we know that Joseph probably had some contact with Swedenborg's writings by 1839, the same kinds of arguments made for early access to Swedenborg can also be made for those around Joseph. Swedenborg's work was, after all, in the public library of Joseph's home town, and it was widely published. The same kinds of individuals who would have talked to Joseph certainly could have talked to those around him—and yet we don't get the claims of his being influenced. And this means that it is quite likely that this discussion is purely of more recent manufacture.
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	*1. {{note\|fn1}} The Latin title of the original was ''De Caelo et Ejus Mirabilibus et de inferno, ex Auditis et Visis.'' An on-line version is available as translated by J.C. Ager, {{link\|url=http:/~~/swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh00toc.html}}~~		<references/>
	*2. {{note\|hc1}} See D&C [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/76 76]; see also {{HoC\|vol=1\|start=245\|end=252}}
	*3. {{note\|clark.1}} {{CriticalWork:Clark:Gleanings by the Way VI\|pages=94}}
	*4. {{note\|scott.1}} {{CriticalWork:Scott:Mormon Bible III\|pages=42–45}}
	</onlyinclude>		</onlyinclude>
	{{FurtherReading}}		{{FurtherReading}}
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	[[fr:Plan of salvation/Three degrees of glory/Swedenborg]]		[[fr:Plan of salvation/Three degrees of glory/Swedenborg]]

			[[Category:MormonThink]]

RogerNicholson: m

2014-05-19T02:17:56Z

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	*3. {{note\|clark.1}} {{CriticalWork:Clark:Gleanings by the Way VI\|pages=94}}		*3. {{note\|clark.1}} {{CriticalWork:Clark:Gleanings by the Way VI\|pages=94}}
	*4. {{note\|scott.1}} {{CriticalWork:Scott:Mormon Bible III\|pages=42–45}}		*4. {{note\|scott.1}} {{CriticalWork:Scott:Mormon Bible III\|pages=42–45}}
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RogerNicholson: m

2014-05-19T02:15:31Z

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	{{Resource Title\|Did Joseph get "three degrees of glory" from Emanuel Swedenborg's book, <em>Heaven and its Wonders and Hell</em>?}}		{{Resource Title\|Did Joseph get "three degrees of glory" from Emanuel Swedenborg's book, <em>Heaven and its Wonders and Hell</em>?}}
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	== ==		== ==
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	[[Image:Emanuel_Swedenborg_full_portrait.jpg\|frame\|right\|Some believe that Joseph Smith borrowed the concept of three degrees of glory from Swedish philosopher and theologian Emanuel Swedenborg (1688–1772). This portrait shows him at age 75. Original from en.wikipedia.org.]]		[[Image:Emanuel_Swedenborg_full_portrait.jpg\|frame\|right\|Some believe that Joseph Smith borrowed the concept of three degrees of glory from Swedish philosopher and theologian Emanuel Swedenborg (1688–1772). This portrait shows him at age 75. Original from en.wikipedia.org.]]

	{{CriticalSources}}		<noinclude>{{CriticalSources}}</noinclude>

	== ==		== ==
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	It is therefore very easy to portray similarities—but here we can read Swedenborg, and it sounds very little like Joseph Smith. Sure, we can point to some shared words—words like "degree"—but these are not unique to Joseph Smith or to Swedenborg, and so they aren't that useful in demonstrating a connection. On the surface it sounds nice, but once you spend the time to read both texts, it becomes hard to imagine one as the source for the other.		It is therefore very easy to portray similarities—but here we can read Swedenborg, and it sounds very little like Joseph Smith. Sure, we can point to some shared words—words like "degree"—but these are not unique to Joseph Smith or to Swedenborg, and so they aren't that useful in demonstrating a connection. On the surface it sounds nice, but once you spend the time to read both texts, it becomes hard to imagine one as the source for the other.

	==~~{{Endnotes label}}~~==		== ==
			{{Endnotes label}}
	#{{note\|fn1}} The Latin title of the original was ''De Caelo et Ejus Mirabilibus et de inferno, ex Auditis et Visis.'' An on-line version is available as translated by J.C. Ager, {{link\|url=http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh00toc.html}}
	~~#{{note\|hc1}} See D&C [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/76 76]; see also {{HoC\|vol=1\|start=245\|end=252}}~~
	~~#{{note\|clark.1}} {{CriticalWork:Clark:Gleanings by the Way VI\|pages=94}}~~
	~~#{{note\|scott.1}} {{CriticalWork:Scott:Mormon Bible III\|pages=42–45~~}}

			*1. {{note\|fn1}} The Latin title of the original was ''De Caelo et Ejus Mirabilibus et de inferno, ex Auditis et Visis.'' An on-line version is available as translated by J.C. Ager, {{link\|url=http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh00toc.html}}
			*2. {{note\|hc1}} See D&C [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/76 76]; see also {{HoC\|vol=1\|start=245\|end=252}}
			*3. {{note\|clark.1}} {{CriticalWork:Clark:Gleanings by the Way VI\|pages=94}}
			*4. {{note\|scott.1}} {{CriticalWork:Scott:Mormon Bible III\|pages=42–45}}
			<onlyinclude>
	{{FurtherReading}}		{{FurtherReading}}

RogerNicholson: m

2013-11-30T20:26:53Z

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	*~~Critics claim~~ that Joseph Smith derived the idea of "three degrees of glory" in the afterlife from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedenborg Emanuel Swedenborg's] book, ''Heaven and its Wonders and Hell From Things Heard and Seen'' (1758).{{ref\|fn1}}		*It is claimed that Joseph Smith derived the idea of "three degrees of glory" in the afterlife from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedenborg Emanuel Swedenborg's] book, ''Heaven and its Wonders and Hell From Things Heard and Seen'' (1758).{{ref\|fn1}}
	*~~Critics claim~~ that Joseph Smith's practice of plural marriage was similar to Swedenborg's philosophy of "spiritual wifery."		*It is claimed that Joseph Smith's practice of plural marriage was similar to Swedenborg's philosophy of "spiritual wifery."

	[[Image:Emanuel_Swedenborg_full_portrait.jpg\|frame\|right\|Some believe that Joseph Smith borrowed the concept of three degrees of glory from Swedish philosopher and theologian Emanuel Swedenborg (1688–1772). This portrait shows him at age 75. Original from en.wikipedia.org.]]		[[Image:Emanuel_Swedenborg_full_portrait.jpg\|frame\|right\|Some believe that Joseph Smith borrowed the concept of three degrees of glory from Swedish philosopher and theologian Emanuel Swedenborg (1688–1772). This portrait shows him at age 75. Original from en.wikipedia.org.]]

RogerNicholson: mod

2013-09-16T03:19:34Z

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			{{Resource Title\|Did Joseph get "three degrees of glory" from Emanuel Swedenborg's book, <em>Heaven and its Wonders and Hell</em>?}}
	=={{Criticism label}}==		== ==
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	*Critics claim that Joseph Smith derived the idea of "three degrees of glory" in the afterlife from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedenborg Emanuel Swedenborg's] book, ''Heaven and its Wonders and Hell From Things Heard and Seen'' (1758).{{ref\|fn1}}		*Critics claim that Joseph Smith derived the idea of "three degrees of glory" in the afterlife from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedenborg Emanuel Swedenborg's] book, ''Heaven and its Wonders and Hell From Things Heard and Seen'' (1758).{{ref\|fn1}}
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	=={{Conclusion label}}==		== ==
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	The charge that Swedenborg was Joseph's source is a late one, and was not even mentioned by those who disliked both Joseph and Swedenborg, and knew both works. Elements in Joseph's schema are present in the Bible, but not present in Swedenborg's model. The claim of "similarity" rests on a few superficial similarities between Joseph and Swedenborg and the Bible—and ignores the many marked differences between them.		The charge that Swedenborg was Joseph's source is a late one, and was not even mentioned by those who disliked both Joseph and Swedenborg, and knew both works. Elements in Joseph's schema are present in the Bible, but not present in Swedenborg's model. The claim of "similarity" rests on a few superficial similarities between Joseph and Swedenborg and the Bible—and ignores the many marked differences between them.