Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner - Revision history

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	~~==References==~~
	~~{{Reflist}}~~
	[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]		[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]
	[[Category:MormonThink]]		[[Category:MormonThink]]

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	Some have tried to see Joseph as telling Mary in Kirtland at age 12 that she was to be his wife.<ref>D. Michael Quinn, ''The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power'' (Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books, 1994), 89.</ref> This does not, however, seem to match her account:		Some have tried to see Joseph as telling Mary in Kirtland at age 12 that she was to be his wife.<ref>D. Michael Quinn, ''The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power'' (Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books, 1994), 89.</ref> This does not, however, seem to match her account:

	<blockquote>The words of the Prophet that had been revealed to him always have been with me from the beginning to the end of the gospel. Every principle that has been given in the Church by the prophet is true. I know whereon I stand, I know what I believe, I know what I know and I know what I testify to you is the living truth. As I expect to meet it at the bar of the eternal Jehovah, it is true. And when you stand before the bar you will know. He preached polygamy and he not only preached it, but he practiced it. I am a living witness to it. It was given to him before he gave it to the Church. An angel came to him and the last time he came with a drawn sword in his hand and told Joseph if he did not go into that principle, he would slay him. Joseph said he talked to him soberly about it, and told him it was an abomination and quoted scripture to him. He said in the Book of Mormon it was an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, and they were to adhere to these things except the Lord speak. I am the first being that the revelation [D&C 132] was given to him for and ~~<b>~~I was one thousand miles away in Missouri, for we went up to Jackson County in 1841 [should be 1831]~~</b>~~.<ref>Mary Elizabeth Lightner, "Testimony of Mary Elizabeth Lightner," address at Brigham Young University, (14 April 1905), typescript, BYU, 1, emphasis added {{link\|url=https://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/MLightner.html}}</ref></blockquote>		<blockquote>The words of the Prophet that had been revealed to him always have been with me from the beginning to the end of the gospel. Every principle that has been given in the Church by the prophet is true. I know whereon I stand, I know what I believe, I know what I know and I know what I testify to you is the living truth. As I expect to meet it at the bar of the eternal Jehovah, it is true. And when you stand before the bar you will know. He preached polygamy and he not only preached it, but he practiced it. I am a living witness to it. It was given to him before he gave it to the Church. An angel came to him and the last time he came with a drawn sword in his hand and told Joseph if he did not go into that principle, he would slay him. Joseph said he talked to him soberly about it, and told him it was an abomination and quoted scripture to him. He said in the Book of Mormon it was an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, and they were to adhere to these things except the Lord speak. I am the first being that the revelation [D&C 132] was given to him for and '''I was one thousand miles away in Missouri, for we went up to Jackson County in 1841 [should be 1831]'''.<ref>Mary Elizabeth Lightner, "Testimony of Mary Elizabeth Lightner," address at Brigham Young University, (14 April 1905), typescript, BYU, 1, emphasis added {{link\|url=https://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/MLightner.html}}</ref></blockquote>

	As she says in the quote above, Joseph got the revelation regarding her, but by then she was a thousand miles away in Missouri. Her family had left Kirtland for Missouri in the fall of 1831; only after her departure did Joseph report the revelation.		As she says in the quote above, Joseph got the revelation regarding her, but by then she was a thousand miles away in Missouri. Her family had left Kirtland for Missouri in the fall of 1831; only after her departure did Joseph report the revelation.
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	Furthermore, in a private letter to Emmeline B. Wells, Mary said that she was not taught anything about plural marriage by Joseph until 1842:		Furthermore, in a private letter to Emmeline B. Wells, Mary said that she was not taught anything about plural marriage by Joseph until 1842:

	<blockquote>As for Sister Whitney, Bishop Whitney's wife, I shall never forget her. It was at their house that the Prophet Joseph first told me about his great vision concerning me. He said I was the first woman God commanded him to take as a plural wife. That was in 1831. He was very much frightened, the angel appeared to him three times. It was in the ~~<b>~~early part of Feb. 1842 that he was compelled to reveal it to me personally~~</b>~~, by the Angel threatening him. I said I would not accept it until I had seen an immortal being myself. I could tell you about this, but cannot write any more in regard to this subject.<ref>Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner, Letter to Emmeline B. Wells, Summer 1905, emphasis added.</ref></blockquote>		<blockquote>As for Sister Whitney, Bishop Whitney's wife, I shall never forget her. It was at their house that the Prophet Joseph first told me about his great vision concerning me. He said I was the first woman God commanded him to take as a plural wife. That was in 1831. He was very much frightened, the angel appeared to him three times. It was in the '''early part of Feb. 1842 that he was compelled to reveal it to me personally''', by the Angel threatening him. I said I would not accept it until I had seen an immortal being myself. I could tell you about this, but cannot write any more in regard to this subject.<ref>Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner, Letter to Emmeline B. Wells, Summer 1905, emphasis added.</ref></blockquote>

	Critics have attempted to portray Joseph as a lech or pedophile, preying on a young child. They claim that he is "grooming" her for later abuse. There are several problems with such a reconstruction. A key one is that, as we have seen, Joseph's revelation regarding her did not come until she was far away in Missouri. (Newel K. Whitney was also not called as a bishop until December 1831.<ref>"Newel K. Whitney: A Man of Faith and Service," Church History Museum (25 March 2015). It is possible that Mary could be speaking of the Whitney's with the bishop's future title, even though he was not bishop while she was in Kirtland, but the other evidence makes this improbable.</ref>)		Critics have attempted to portray Joseph as a lech or pedophile, preying on a young child. They claim that he is "grooming" her for later abuse. There are several problems with such a reconstruction. A key one is that, as we have seen, Joseph's revelation regarding her did not come until she was far away in Missouri. (Newel K. Whitney was also not called as a bishop until December 1831.<ref>"Newel K. Whitney: A Man of Faith and Service," Church History Museum (25 March 2015). It is possible that Mary could be speaking of the Whitney's with the bishop's future title, even though he was not bishop while she was in Kirtland, but the other evidence makes this improbable.</ref>)
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	<blockquote>Well, I talked with him for a long time and finally I told him I would never be sealed to him until I had a witness. Said he, "You shall have a witness." Said I, "If God told you that, why does he not tell me?"..."Well," said he, "pray earnestly for the angel said to me you should have a witness." Well, Brigham Young was with me. He said if I had a witness he wanted to know it. "Why should I tell you?" said I. "Well," said he, "I want to know for myself." Said he, "Do you know what Joseph said? Since we left the office the angel appeared to him and told him he was well pleased with him and that you should have a witness."<ref>Mary Elizabeth Lightner, "Testimony of Mary Elizabeth Lightner," address at Brigham Young University, (14 April 1905), typescript, BYU, 2 {{link\|url=https://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/MLightner.html}}</ref></blockquote>		<blockquote>Well, I talked with him for a long time and finally I told him I would never be sealed to him until I had a witness. Said he, "You shall have a witness." Said I, "If God told you that, why does he not tell me?"..."Well," said he, "pray earnestly for the angel said to me you should have a witness." Well, Brigham Young was with me. He said if I had a witness he wanted to know it. "Why should I tell you?" said I. "Well," said he, "I want to know for myself." Said he, "Do you know what Joseph said? Since we left the office the angel appeared to him and told him he was well pleased with him and that you should have a witness."<ref>Mary Elizabeth Lightner, "Testimony of Mary Elizabeth Lightner," address at Brigham Young University, (14 April 1905), typescript, BYU, 2 {{link\|url=https://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/MLightner.html}}</ref></blockquote>

	Joseph does not hesitate to tell a suspicious and reluctant Mary that she will have a divine ~~witness--a~~ strange and risky act for a predator to undertake.		Joseph does not hesitate to tell a suspicious and reluctant Mary that she will have a divine witness—a strange and risky act for a predator to undertake.

	Mary described her search for a witness:		Mary described her search for a witness:
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	<blockquote>I made it a subject of prayer and I worried about it because I did not dare to speak to a living being except Brigham Young. I went out and got between three haystacks where no one could see me. As I knelt down I thought, why not pray as Moses did? He prayed with his hands raised. When his hands were raised, Israel was victorious, but when they were not raised, the Philistines were victorious. I lifted my hands and I have heard Joseph say the angels covered their faces. I knelt down and if ever a poor mortal prayed, I did. A few nights after that an angel of the Lord came to me and if ever a thrill went through a mortal, it went through me. I gazed upon the clothes and figure but the eyes were like lightning. They pierced me from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet. I was frightened almost to death for a moment. I tried to waken my aunt, but I could not. The angel leaned over me and the light was very great, although it was night. When my aunt woke up she said she had seen a figure in white robes pass from our bed to my mother's bed and pass out of the window.<ref>Mary Elizabeth Lightner, "Testimony of Mary Elizabeth Lightner," address at Brigham Young University, (14 April 1905), typescript, BYU, 2, emphasis added {{link\|url=https://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/MLightner.html}}</ref></blockquote>		<blockquote>I made it a subject of prayer and I worried about it because I did not dare to speak to a living being except Brigham Young. I went out and got between three haystacks where no one could see me. As I knelt down I thought, why not pray as Moses did? He prayed with his hands raised. When his hands were raised, Israel was victorious, but when they were not raised, the Philistines were victorious. I lifted my hands and I have heard Joseph say the angels covered their faces. I knelt down and if ever a poor mortal prayed, I did. A few nights after that an angel of the Lord came to me and if ever a thrill went through a mortal, it went through me. I gazed upon the clothes and figure but the eyes were like lightning. They pierced me from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet. I was frightened almost to death for a moment. I tried to waken my aunt, but I could not. The angel leaned over me and the light was very great, although it was night. When my aunt woke up she said she had seen a figure in white robes pass from our bed to my mother's bed and pass out of the window.<ref>Mary Elizabeth Lightner, "Testimony of Mary Elizabeth Lightner," address at Brigham Young University, (14 April 1905), typescript, BYU, 2, emphasis added {{link\|url=https://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/MLightner.html}}</ref></blockquote>

	Mary received a witness, and her aunt (who knew nothing of her conversation with Joseph) served as a second witness of the experience. We might argue that Joseph so bedazzled Mary that she ~~hallucinated--a~~ dubious ~~claim--but~~ he cannot have fabricated her aunt's unwitting verification.		Mary received a witness, and her aunt (who knew nothing of her conversation with Joseph) served as a second witness of the experience. We might argue that Joseph so bedazzled Mary that she hallucinated—a dubious claim—but he cannot have fabricated her aunt's unwitting verification.

	Mary reported her experience to Joseph:		Mary reported her experience to Joseph:
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	Mary Elizabeth Rollins was married to a non-Mormon, Adam Lightner. Mary did not proceed with the sealing to Joseph until she had given up attempting to persuade her husband Adam to join:		Mary Elizabeth Rollins was married to a non-Mormon, Adam Lightner. Mary did not proceed with the sealing to Joseph until she had given up attempting to persuade her husband Adam to join:
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	My husband did not belong to the Church. I begged him and pled with him to join but he would not. He said he did not believe in it, though he thought a great deal of Joseph. He sacrificed his property rather than testify against Joseph, Hyrum and George A. Smith. After he said this, I went forward and was sealed to Joseph for eternity. <ref>Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner, "Remarks" at B.Y.U April 14, 1905, copy of original signed typescript, Vault Mss 363, fd 6, HBLL, BYU, 7.</ref>		My husband did not belong to the Church. I begged him and pled with him to join but he would not. He said he did not believe in it, though he thought a great deal of Joseph. He sacrificed his property rather than testify against Joseph, Hyrum and George A. Smith. After he said this, I went forward and was sealed to Joseph for eternity.<ref>Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner, "Remarks" at B.Y.U April 14, 1905, copy of original signed typescript, Vault Mss 363, fd 6, HBLL, BYU, 7.</ref>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

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			==References==
			{{Reflist}}
	[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]		[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]
	[[Category:MormonThink]]		[[Category:MormonThink]]

GregSmith at 03:39, 19 May 2024

2024-05-19T03:39:36Z

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	After being sealed to Joseph, Mary continued to live with her husband Adam until his death in 1885. Although this particular statement, and the evidence that she continued to live with her husband until his death, indicates a sealing for eternity only, on other occasions Mary actually referred to being sealed to Joseph for "time and eternity." Joseph also told her that she was to be sealed to him for eternity, and she initially resisted the idea until she received an angelic visitation and confirmation.		After being sealed to Joseph, Mary continued to live with her husband Adam until his death in 1885. Although this particular statement, and the evidence that she continued to live with her husband until his death, indicates a sealing for eternity only, on other occasions Mary actually referred to being sealed to Joseph for "time and eternity." Joseph also told her that she was to be sealed to him for eternity, and she initially resisted the idea until she received an angelic visitation and confirmation.

			{{Hales plural wife biography
			\|wife=Mary Elizabeth Rollins
			\|link=http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/mary-elizabeth-rollins/
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	{{HalesItem		{{HalesItem
	\|subject=After Louisa Beaman, Joseph Smith Seeks Almost Exclusively "Eternity Only" Sealings		\|subject=After Louisa Beaman, Joseph Smith Seeks Almost Exclusively "Eternity Only" Sealings
	\|link=http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/first-nauvoo-sealing/		\|link=http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/first-nauvoo-sealing/
	~~\|summary=}}~~
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	~~{{Hales plural wife biography~~
	~~\|wife=Mary Elizabeth Rollins~~
	~~\|link=http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/mary-elizabeth-rollins/~~
	\|summary=}}		\|summary=}}

GregSmith at 03:36, 19 May 2024

2024-05-19T03:36:00Z

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	After being sealed to Joseph, Mary continued to live with her husband Adam until his death in 1885. Although this particular statement, and the evidence that she continued to live with her husband until his death, indicates a sealing for eternity only, on other occasions Mary actually referred to being sealed to Joseph for "time and eternity." Joseph also told her that she was to be sealed to him for eternity, and she initially resisted the idea until she received an angelic visitation and confirmation.		After being sealed to Joseph, Mary continued to live with her husband Adam until his death in 1885. Although this particular statement, and the evidence that she continued to live with her husband until his death, indicates a sealing for eternity only, on other occasions Mary actually referred to being sealed to Joseph for "time and eternity." Joseph also told her that she was to be sealed to him for eternity, and she initially resisted the idea until she received an angelic visitation and confirmation.

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			\|subject=After Louisa Beaman, Joseph Smith Seeks Almost Exclusively "Eternity Only" Sealings
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	\|wife=Mary Elizabeth Rollins		\|wife=Mary Elizabeth Rollins
	\|link=http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/mary-elizabeth-rollins/		\|link=http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/mary-elizabeth-rollins/
	~~\|summary=}}~~


	~~{{HalesItem~~
	~~\|subject=After Louisa Beaman, Joseph Smith Seeks Almost Exclusively "Eternity Only" Sealings~~
	~~\|link=http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/first-nauvoo-sealing/~~
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GregSmith at 03:31, 19 May 2024

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	~~=What can you tell me about Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner and polyandry?=~~
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GregSmith: /* What can you tell me about Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner and polyandry? */

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What can you tell me about Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner and polyandry?

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	=Who was Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner?=		=Who was Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner?=

GregSmith: GregSmith moved page Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Plural wives/Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner to Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner

2024-05-19T03:30:35Z

GregSmith moved page Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Plural wives/Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner to Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner

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GregSmith at 03:30, 19 May 2024

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 After being sealed to Joseph, Mary continued to live with her husband Adam until his death in 1885. Although this particular statement, and the evidence that she continued to live with her husband until his death, indicates a sealing for eternity only, on other occasions Mary actually referred to being sealed to Joseph for "time and eternity." Joseph also told her that she was to be sealed to him for eternity, and she initially resisted the idea until she received an angelic visitation and confirmation.
 {{Hales plural wife biography
 |wife=Mary Elizabeth Rollins