Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Helen Mar Kimball - Revision history

RogerNicholson: redirect

2011-04-16T06:34:30Z

redirect

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GregSmithBot: Robot: Automated text replacement (-Source(s) of the criticism +{{Criticism source label English}}, -Source(s) of the Criticism +{{Criticism source label English}}, -==Criticism== +=={{Criticism label}}==, -==Response== +=={{Response label}}==, -==Qu

2010-05-04T09:50:21Z

Robot: Automated text replacement (-Source(s) of the criticism +{{Criticism source label English}}, -Source(s) of the Criticism +{{Criticism source label English}}, -==Criticism== +=={{Criticism label}}==, -==Response== +=={{Response label}}==, -==Qu

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	==Criticism==		=={{Criticism label}}==

	Critics claim that Helen Mar Kimball		Critics claim that Helen Mar Kimball
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	{{CriticalSources}}		{{CriticalSources}}

	==Response==		=={{Response label}}==

	Critics generally do not reveal that their sources have concluded that Helen's marriage to Joseph Smith was unconsummated. For example, George D. Smith quotes Compton without disclosing his view,{{ref\|compton1}} and Stanley Kimball without disclosing that he believed the marriage to be "unconsummated." {{ref\|kimball1}}		Critics generally do not reveal that their sources have concluded that Helen's marriage to Joseph Smith was unconsummated. For example, George D. Smith quotes Compton without disclosing his view,{{ref\|compton1}} and Stanley Kimball without disclosing that he believed the marriage to be "unconsummated." {{ref\|kimball1}}
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	:I have encouraged and sustained my husband in the celestial order of marriage because I knew it was right. At various times I have been healed by the washing and annointing, administered by the mothers in Israel. I am still spared to testify to the truth and Godliness of this work; and though my happiness once consisted in laboring for those I love, the Lord has seen fit to deprive me of bodily strength, and taught me to 'cast my bread upon the waters' and after many days my longing spirit was cheered with the knowledge that He had a work for me to do, and with Him, I know that all things are possible…		:I have encouraged and sustained my husband in the celestial order of marriage because I knew it was right. At various times I have been healed by the washing and annointing, administered by the mothers in Israel. I am still spared to testify to the truth and Godliness of this work; and though my happiness once consisted in laboring for those I love, the Lord has seen fit to deprive me of bodily strength, and taught me to 'cast my bread upon the waters' and after many days my longing spirit was cheered with the knowledge that He had a work for me to do, and with Him, I know that all things are possible…

	==Conclusion==		=={{Conclusion label}}==

	There is, despite the critics' insinuations, no evidence that Helen Mar Kimball's marriage was consummated. (Consummation would not have been inappropriate, since this was a marriage, but the critics are too anxious to find problems where no evidence for such exists. Helen did have some disappointments—these mostly revolved around being less free to participate in parties and socials, not at being physically joined to an older husband.		There is, despite the critics' insinuations, no evidence that Helen Mar Kimball's marriage was consummated. (Consummation would not have been inappropriate, since this was a marriage, but the critics are too anxious to find problems where no evidence for such exists. Helen did have some disappointments—these mostly revolved around being less free to participate in parties and socials, not at being physically joined to an older husband.
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	: I did not try to conceal the fact of its having been a trial, but confessed that it had been one of the severest of my life; but that it had also proven one of the greatest of blessings. I could truly say it had done the most towards making me a Saint and a free woman, in every sense of the word; and I knew many others who could say the same, and to whom it had proven one of the greatest boons--a "blessing in disguise."{{ref\|helen99}}		: I did not try to conceal the fact of its having been a trial, but confessed that it had been one of the severest of my life; but that it had also proven one of the greatest of blessings. I could truly say it had done the most towards making me a Saint and a free woman, in every sense of the word; and I knew many others who could say the same, and to whom it had proven one of the greatest boons--a "blessing in disguise."{{ref\|helen99}}

	==Endnotes==		=={{Endnotes label}}==
	#{{note\|gds1}} GDS, p. 201-202; citing Compton, ''In Sacred Loneliness'', 500.		#{{note\|gds1}} GDS, p. 201-202; citing Compton, ''In Sacred Loneliness'', 500.
	#{{note\|compton1}} George D. Smith, ''Nauvoo Polygamy'' cites Compton, but ignores that Compton argues that " there is absolutely no evidence that there was any sexuality in the marriage, and I suggest that, following later practice in Utah, there may have been no sexuality. All the evidence points to this marriage as a primarily dynastic marriage.” (Todd M. Compton, “Response to Tanners,” post to LDS Bookshelf mailing list (no date), http://www.lds-mormon.com/compton.shtml (accessed 2 December 2008). Compare with Smith, Nauvoo Polygamy, 198–202, 302, 362 and Compton, In Sacred Loneliness, 14.)		#{{note\|compton1}} George D. Smith, ''Nauvoo Polygamy'' cites Compton, but ignores that Compton argues that " there is absolutely no evidence that there was any sexuality in the marriage, and I suggest that, following later practice in Utah, there may have been no sexuality. All the evidence points to this marriage as a primarily dynastic marriage.” (Todd M. Compton, “Response to Tanners,” post to LDS Bookshelf mailing list (no date), http://www.lds-mormon.com/compton.shtml (accessed 2 December 2008). Compare with Smith, Nauvoo Polygamy, 198–202, 302, 362 and Compton, In Sacred Loneliness, 14.)
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	#{{note\|helen99}} Helen Mar Kimball, ''Why We Practice Plural Marriage'', 23-24 cited in Andrus, ''Doctrines of the Kingdom''. {{nc}}		#{{note\|helen99}} Helen Mar Kimball, ''Why We Practice Plural Marriage'', 23-24 cited in Andrus, ''Doctrines of the Kingdom''. {{nc}}

	==Further reading==		=={{Further reading label}}==

	===FAIR wiki articles===		==={{FAIR wiki articles label}}===
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	[[fr:Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Helen Mar Kimball]]		[[fr:Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Helen Mar Kimball]]

GregSmith: robot Adding: fr:Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Helen Mar Kimball

2010-05-02T05:57:59Z

robot Adding: fr:Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Helen Mar Kimball

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RogerNicholson: /* Source(s) of the criticism */ sources

2009-11-03T20:31:21Z

Source(s) of the criticism: sources

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	:"expected her marriage to Joseph Smith" to be a ceremony "for eternity only," not an actual marriage involving physical relations. How surprised she was to discover "that it included [marriage for] time also": a physical union at age fourteen with a thirty-seven year-old man.{{ref\|gds1}}		:"expected her marriage to Joseph Smith" to be a ceremony "for eternity only," not an actual marriage involving physical relations. How surprised she was to discover "that it included [marriage for] time also": a physical union at age fourteen with a thirty-seven year-old man.{{ref\|gds1}}

	~~===Source(s) of the criticism===~~		{{CriticalSources}}

	*{{~~CriticalWork:Newell Avery:Mormon Enigma\|pages=147}}~~
	*{{CriticalWork:Smith:Nauvoo Polygamy\|pages=201-202}}
	*{{CriticalWork:Van Wagoner:Sidney Rigdon\|pages=293–294}}

	==Response==		==Response==

RogerNicholson: moved Joseph Smith and polygamy/Helen Mar Kimball to Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Helen Mar Kimball

2009-11-03T20:30:58Z

moved Joseph Smith and polygamy/Helen Mar Kimball to Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Helen Mar Kimball

← Older revision	Revision as of 20:30, 3 November 2009
(No difference)

GregSmith: /* Conclusion */

2009-06-13T04:41:32Z

Conclusion

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	==Conclusion==		==Conclusion==

	There is, despite the critics' insinuations, no evidence that Helen Mar Kimball's marriage was consummated. (Consummation would not have been inappropriate, since this was a marriage, but the critics are too anxious to find problems where no evidence for such exists.0 Helen did have some disappointments—these mostly revolved around being less free to participate in parties and socials, not at being physically joined to an older husband.		There is, despite the critics' insinuations, no evidence that Helen Mar Kimball's marriage was consummated. (Consummation would not have been inappropriate, since this was a marriage, but the critics are too anxious to find problems where no evidence for such exists. Helen did have some disappointments—these mostly revolved around being less free to participate in parties and socials, not at being physically joined to an older husband.

	But, Helen later saw her youthful displeasure as inappropriate and insisted that she had been protected and blessed by being a plural wife, even though she did not know it at the time.		But, Helen later saw her youthful displeasure as inappropriate and insisted that she had been protected and blessed by being a plural wife, even though she did not know it at the time.

GregSmith: /* Helen's views */

2009-05-29T05:07:32Z

Helen's views

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	Helen is describing a period during the westward migration when (married monogamously) her first child died. Helen was upset by polygamy only because she saw the difficulties it placed on her mother. She is not complaining about her own experience with it.		Helen is describing a period during the westward migration when (married monogamously) her first child died. Helen was upset by polygamy only because she saw the difficulties it placed on her mother. She is not complaining about her own experience with it.

	{{main\|Divine_manifestations_to_plural_wives_and_families#Heber_and_Vilate_Kimball\|Divine manifestations of plural marriage: Heber and Vilate Kimball}}		{{main\|Divine_manifestations_to_plural_wives_and_families#Heber_and_Vilate_Kimball\|l1=Divine manifestations of plural marriage: Heber and Vilate Kimball}}

	===Full conversion===		===Full conversion===

GregSmith: /* Helen's views */

2009-05-29T05:07:18Z

Helen's views

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:07, 29 May 2009
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	Helen is describing a period during the westward migration when (married monogamously) her first child died. Helen was upset by polygamy only because she saw the difficulties it placed on her mother. She is not complaining about her own experience with it.		Helen is describing a period during the westward migration when (married monogamously) her first child died. Helen was upset by polygamy only because she saw the difficulties it placed on her mother. She is not complaining about her own experience with it.

	{{main\|Divine_manifestations_to_plural_wives_and_families#Heber_and_Vilate_Kimball}}		{{main\|Divine_manifestations_to_plural_wives_and_families#Heber_and_Vilate_Kimball\|Divine manifestations of plural marriage: Heber and Vilate Kimball}}

	===Full conversion===		===Full conversion===