Joseph Smith/Occultism and magic/Mars dagger - Revision history

RogerNicholson: Redirected page to Question: Was a "magic dagger" once owned by Hyrum Smith?

2017-04-03T21:58:34Z

Redirected page to Question: Was a "magic dagger" once owned by Hyrum Smith?

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RogerNicholson at 01:21, 18 April 2016

2016-04-18T01:21:45Z

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RogerNicholson at 01:21, 18 April 2016

2016-04-18T01:21:18Z

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RogerNicholson at 06:20, 30 November 2014

2014-11-30T06:20:48Z

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RogerNicholson: /* */

2014-11-30T06:13:39Z

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	===The Mars Dagger===		===The Mars Dagger===
	William Hamblin discusses a dagger that was discovered to be on the the Hyrum Smith family heirlooms. The dagger is claimed by historian D. Michael Quinn to be associated with the practice of magic:		William Hamblin discusses a dagger that was discovered to be among the the Hyrum Smith family heirlooms. The dagger is claimed by historian D. Michael Quinn to be associated with the practice of magic:
	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	Quinn's claim that the Smiths used magic circles as part of their alleged treasure-hunting activities is intimately connected with the so-called "magic dagger," first mentioned in a 1963 description of Hyrum Smith's heirlooms. According to Quinn, this was precisely "the kind of dagger necessary for ritual magic" (p. 70) and had "everything to do with ceremonial magic" (p. 70). Quinn also claims that this dagger was astrologically connected to Joseph Smith Sr.'s birth year: "it is crucial that [the sigil of] Mars (inscribed on the dagger) was the planet governing' the year 1771. That was the year of Joseph Sr.'s birth" (p. 71). As will be demonstrated below, in all these claims he is simply and clearly mistaken. There are two separate issues here: (1) What is the significance of the sigils (symbols) found on the dagger? and (2) Was the dagger designed for ritual magic and, more specifically, for making magic circles for treasure hunting?<ref>{{FR-12-2-16}}</ref>		Quinn's claim that the Smiths used magic circles as part of their alleged treasure-hunting activities is intimately connected with the so-called "magic dagger," first mentioned in a 1963 description of Hyrum Smith's heirlooms. According to Quinn, this was precisely "the kind of dagger necessary for ritual magic" (p. 70) and had "everything to do with ceremonial magic" (p. 70). Quinn also claims that this dagger was astrologically connected to Joseph Smith Sr.'s birth year: "it is crucial that [the sigil of] Mars (inscribed on the dagger) was the planet governing' the year 1771. That was the year of Joseph Sr.'s birth" (p. 71). As will be demonstrated below, in all these claims he is simply and clearly mistaken. There are two separate issues here: (1) What is the significance of the sigils (symbols) found on the dagger? and (2) Was the dagger designed for ritual magic and, more specifically, for making magic circles for treasure hunting?<ref>{{FR-12-2-16}}</ref>

RogerNicholson: /* */

2014-11-30T06:13:23Z

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	{{Response label}}		{{Response label}}

	~~<ref>Part I and Part II were initially based on {{FR-12-2-16}} Due to the nature of a wiki project, the text has been formatted and potentially modified.~~
	~~{{ProbabilityMagicItemsEndnotes}}~~
	~~</ref>~~
	===The Mars Dagger===		===The Mars Dagger===
	William Hamblin discusses a dagger that was discovered to be on the the Hyrum Smith family heirlooms. The dagger is claimed by historian D. Michael Quinn to be associated with the practice of magic:		William Hamblin discusses a dagger that was discovered to be on the the Hyrum Smith family heirlooms. The dagger is claimed by historian D. Michael Quinn to be associated with the practice of magic:

RogerNicholson at 06:12, 30 November 2014

2014-11-30T06:12:45Z

Show changes

RogerNicholson: /* Part I: The Mars Dagger */

2014-11-30T06:08:33Z

Part I: The Mars Dagger

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	==Part I: The Mars Dagger==		==Part I: The Mars Dagger==
			William Hamblin:
	Quinn's claim that the Smiths used magic circles as part of their alleged treasure-hunting activities is intimately connected with the so-called "magic dagger," first mentioned in a 1963 description of Hyrum Smith's heirlooms.~~155~~ According to Quinn, this was precisely "the kind of dagger necessary for ritual magic" (p. 70) and had "everything to do with ceremonial magic" (p. 70). Quinn also claims that this dagger was astrologically connected to Joseph Smith Sr.'s birth year: "it is crucial that [the sigil of] Mars (inscribed on the dagger) was the planet governing' the year 1771. That was the year of Joseph Sr.'s birth" (p. 71). As will be demonstrated below, in all these claims he is simply and clearly mistaken. There are two separate issues here: (1) What is the significance of the sigils (symbols) found on the dagger? and (2) Was the dagger designed for ritual magic and, more specifically, for making magic circles for treasure hunting?		<blockquote>
			Quinn's claim that the Smiths used magic circles as part of their alleged treasure-hunting activities is intimately connected with the so-called "magic dagger," first mentioned in a 1963 description of Hyrum Smith's heirlooms. According to Quinn, this was precisely "the kind of dagger necessary for ritual magic" (p. 70) and had "everything to do with ceremonial magic" (p. 70). Quinn also claims that this dagger was astrologically connected to Joseph Smith Sr.'s birth year: "it is crucial that [the sigil of] Mars (inscribed on the dagger) was the planet governing' the year 1771. That was the year of Joseph Sr.'s birth" (p. 71). As will be demonstrated below, in all these claims he is simply and clearly mistaken. There are two separate issues here: (1) What is the significance of the sigils (symbols) found on the dagger? and (2) Was the dagger designed for ritual magic and, more specifically, for making magic circles for treasure hunting?<ref>{{FR-12-2-16}}</ref>
			</blockquote>
	===An Astrological Connection?===		===An Astrological Connection?===

RogerNicholson at 04:39, 20 November 2014

2014-11-20T04:39:21Z

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	It is claimed that the Smith's owned a magic dagger that was among Hyrum Smith's heirlooms. They cite this as proof of the Smith family's deep involvement in ritual magick.		It is claimed that the Smith's owned a magic dagger that was among Hyrum Smith's heirlooms. They cite this as proof of the Smith family's deep involvement in ritual magick.

	~~{{CriticalSources}}~~

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	To summarize, not only are the nineteenth-century anti-Mormon primary sources used by Quinn (and those who follow his analysis, often uncritically) inconsistent among themselves in describing the magic circles the Smiths are alleged to have drawn, they are also inconsistent—in terms of size, number, construction, purpose, materials, inscriptions, paraphernalia, and rituals—with the standard magical handbooks Quinn claims the Smiths used to learn how to make these magic circles. The only similarity is that they both happen to be circles.		To summarize, not only are the nineteenth-century anti-Mormon primary sources used by Quinn (and those who follow his analysis, often uncritically) inconsistent among themselves in describing the magic circles the Smiths are alleged to have drawn, they are also inconsistent—in terms of size, number, construction, purpose, materials, inscriptions, paraphernalia, and rituals—with the standard magical handbooks Quinn claims the Smiths used to learn how to make these magic circles. The only similarity is that they both happen to be circles.
			</onlyinclude>
	~~== ==~~		{{CriticalSources}}
	{{~~Endnotes label~~}}		{{endnotes sources}}
	~~<references />~~

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GregSmith at 18:39, 7 June 2014

2014-06-07T18:39:19Z

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	To summarize, not only are the nineteenth-century anti-Mormon primary sources used by Quinn (and those who follow his analysis, often uncritically) inconsistent among themselves in describing the magic circles the Smiths are alleged to have drawn, they are also inconsistent—in terms of size, number, construction, purpose, materials, inscriptions, paraphernalia, and rituals—with the standard magical handbooks Quinn claims the Smiths used to learn how to make these magic circles. The only similarity is that they both happen to be circles.~~<ref>Part I and Part II were initially based on {{FR-12-2-16}} Due to the nature of a wiki project, the text has been formatted and potentially modified.~~		To summarize, not only are the nineteenth-century anti-Mormon primary sources used by Quinn (and those who follow his analysis, often uncritically) inconsistent among themselves in describing the magic circles the Smiths are alleged to have drawn, they are also inconsistent—in terms of size, number, construction, purpose, materials, inscriptions, paraphernalia, and rituals—with the standard magical handbooks Quinn claims the Smiths used to learn how to make these magic circles. The only similarity is that they both happen to be circles.
	~~{{ProbabilityMagicItemsEndnotes}}</ref>~~

	== ==		== ==