Joseph Smith/Martyrdom/Nauvoo Legion to rescue Joseph - Revision history

RogerNicholson: Redirected page to Question: Did Joseph order Jonathan Dunham, head of the Nauvoo legion, to rescue him?

2017-04-03T22:11:56Z

Redirected page to Question: Did Joseph order Jonathan Dunham, head of the Nauvoo legion, to rescue him?

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:11, 3 April 2017
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RogerNicholson at 22:11, 3 April 2017

2017-04-03T22:11:30Z

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RogerNicholson at 04:07, 25 March 2015

2015-03-25T04:07:18Z

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RogerNicholson at 04:26, 26 November 2014

2014-11-26T04:26:55Z

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	It is claimed that Joseph Smith was panicking at Carthage Jail, and wrote an order to Jonathan Dunham (head of the Nauvoo legion), telling him to attack the jail and "save him at all costs" (Brodie, 392). What can you tell me about this?		It is claimed that Joseph Smith was panicking at Carthage Jail, and wrote an order to Jonathan Dunham (head of the Nauvoo legion), telling him to attack the jail and "save him at all costs" (Brodie, 392). What can you tell me about this?

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	:Myself and brother Hyrum are in Jail on [a] charge of Treason, to come up for examination on Saturday morning 29th inst. and we request your professional services at that time, on our defence without fail....P.S. There is no <del>ground </del> of action, for we have not been guilty of any crime; neither is there any just cause of suspicion against us <del>when facts are shown</del> but certain circumstances make your attendance very necessary.<ref>Jessee, ''Personal Writings'', 612.</ref>		:Myself and brother Hyrum are in Jail on [a] charge of Treason, to come up for examination on Saturday morning 29th inst. and we request your professional services at that time, on our defence without fail....P.S. There is no <del>ground </del> of action, for we have not been guilty of any crime; neither is there any just cause of suspicion against us <del>when facts are shown</del> but certain circumstances make your attendance very necessary.<ref>Jessee, ''Personal Writings'', 612.</ref>
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GregSmith at 20:11, 7 June 2014

2014-06-07T20:11:23Z

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	For this claim, Quinn appeals again to Stenhouse (who, as noted above, mentioned no names and could have had no personal knowledge of these events), and to an Oliver B. Huntington statement, in Seymour B. Young diary, 23 May 1903, LDS archives. But, this supposed confirmation turns out to be nothing of the sort. Dean Jessee wrote, in a review of Quinn's work that		For this claim, Quinn appeals again to Stenhouse (who, as noted above, mentioned no names and could have had no personal knowledge of these events), and to an Oliver B. Huntington statement, in Seymour B. Young diary, 23 May 1903, LDS archives. But, this supposed confirmation turns out to be nothing of the sort. Dean Jessee wrote, in a review of Quinn's work that

	:In his treatment of Joseph Smith's death, Quinn refers to the statement by Allen Stout that Joseph, in Carthage Jail, had ordered Jonathan Dunham, commander of the Nauvoo Legion, to bring the legion and rescue him; and that Dunham did not respond (p. 141). Quinn quotes Seymour Young's 1903 conversation with Oliver Huntington, reporting that Dunham "seemed to grieve over the matter" of failing to rescue Joseph; depressed, Dunham persuaded a friendly Indian to kill and bury him (pp. 179-80). But Quinn has altered the Young conversation with Huntington to support Stout's story that Joseph had sent for the Nauvoo Legion. According to Young, Huntington informed him that, in the spring of 1844, Joseph told Dunham to fortify Nauvoo so the Saints could make a stand against their enemies. Dunham's depression after the martyrdom was over his failure to complete the fortification; he felt that had he done so, the Prophet might not have had to go to Carthage in the first place.<ref name="jesse">{{JMH1\|author=Dean C. Jessee\|article=review of ''The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power''\|vol=22\|num=2\|date=Fall 1996</ref>{{Rp\|167}}		:In his treatment of Joseph Smith's death, Quinn refers to the statement by Allen Stout that Joseph, in Carthage Jail, had ordered Jonathan Dunham, commander of the Nauvoo Legion, to bring the legion and rescue him; and that Dunham did not respond (p. 141). Quinn quotes Seymour Young's 1903 conversation with Oliver Huntington, reporting that Dunham "seemed to grieve over the matter" of failing to rescue Joseph; depressed, Dunham persuaded a friendly Indian to kill and bury him (pp. 179-80). But Quinn has altered the Young conversation with Huntington to support Stout's story that Joseph had sent for the Nauvoo Legion. According to Young, Huntington informed him that, in the spring of 1844, Joseph told Dunham to fortify Nauvoo so the Saints could make a stand against their enemies. Dunham's depression after the martyrdom was over his failure to complete the fortification; he felt that had he done so, the Prophet might not have had to go to Carthage in the first place.<ref name="jesse">{{JMH1\|author=Dean C. Jessee\|article=review of ''The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power''\|vol=22\|num=2\|date=Fall 1996}}</ref>{{Rp\|167}}

	Jessee makes no mention of Quinn's further difficulties in using the forged Hofmann document years after its status as a fraud was revealed. Thus, the case for Joseph's order to Dunham rests only on Stout's account. Stenhouse mentions the story, but he was in England at the time. He could have had no independent confirmation.		Jessee makes no mention of Quinn's further difficulties in using the forged Hofmann document years after its status as a fraud was revealed. Thus, the case for Joseph's order to Dunham rests only on Stout's account. Stenhouse mentions the story, but he was in England at the time. He could have had no independent confirmation.

GregSmith: /* Quinn: distorting another source */

2014-06-07T20:10:59Z

Quinn: distorting another source

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	Quinn tries to provide extra proof by writing that:		Quinn tries to provide extra proof by writing that:

	:Later general authority Seymour B. Young (who had survived the Haun's Mill massacre) recorded a different story he learned from another former Danite. Ever since the martyrdom, Dunham "seemed to grieve over the matter" of not rescuing the prisoners at Carthage, and the anniversary of the prophet's death pushed him into despair. A month later he persuaded "a friendly Indian" (Dana) "to kill and bury him."<ref = "quinn"></ref>{{Rp\|179}}		:Later general authority Seymour B. Young (who had survived the Haun's Mill massacre) recorded a different story he learned from another former Danite. Ever since the martyrdom, Dunham "seemed to grieve over the matter" of not rescuing the prisoners at Carthage, and the anniversary of the prophet's death pushed him into despair. A month later he persuaded "a friendly Indian" (Dana) "to kill and bury him."<ref name = "quinn"></ref>{{Rp\|179}}

	For this claim, Quinn appeals again to Stenhouse (who, as noted above, mentioned no names and could have had no personal knowledge of these events), and to an Oliver B. Huntington statement, in Seymour B. Young diary, 23 May 1903, LDS archives. But, this supposed confirmation turns out to be nothing of the sort. Dean Jessee wrote, in a review of Quinn's work that		For this claim, Quinn appeals again to Stenhouse (who, as noted above, mentioned no names and could have had no personal knowledge of these events), and to an Oliver B. Huntington statement, in Seymour B. Young diary, 23 May 1903, LDS archives. But, this supposed confirmation turns out to be nothing of the sort. Dean Jessee wrote, in a review of Quinn's work that
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	This does not stop Quinn from later, in his timeline, acting as if his entire scenario is well-proven:		This does not stop Quinn from later, in his timeline, acting as if his entire scenario is well-proven:

	:28 July. Jonathan Dunham, despondent about disobeying Smith's orders to rescue him from jail, commits suicide. Later disclosures indicate that Dunham, who was a captain of Nauvoo's police, major-general of the Nauvoo Legion, and a Council of Fifty member, accomplished the suicide by asking a native American friend (Lewis Dana, fellow member of the Fifty) to "kill and bury him."<ref = "quinn"></ref>{{Rp\|652}}		:28 July. Jonathan Dunham, despondent about disobeying Smith's orders to rescue him from jail, commits suicide. Later disclosures indicate that Dunham, who was a captain of Nauvoo's police, major-general of the Nauvoo Legion, and a Council of Fifty member, accomplished the suicide by asking a native American friend (Lewis Dana, fellow member of the Fifty) to "kill and bury him."<ref name = "quinn"></ref>{{Rp\|652}}

	No references are provided, a deficiency which reviewers have noted.<Ref>"In a work where source notes are taken as seriously as they are in this book, it is unfortunate that they were not included in appendices 6 (Biographical Sketches) and 7 (Selected Chronology). The careful student needs to be able to weigh the evidence for the extensive and sometimes sensational information that is given here." - Jessee, review of ''Mormon Hierarchy'', 167–168.</ref>		No references are provided, a deficiency which reviewers have noted.<Ref>"In a work where source notes are taken as seriously as they are in this book, it is unfortunate that they were not included in appendices 6 (Biographical Sketches) and 7 (Selected Chronology). The careful student needs to be able to weigh the evidence for the extensive and sometimes sensational information that is given here." - Jessee, review of ''Mormon Hierarchy'', 167–168.</ref>

GregSmith: /* New wrinkle: Hofmann forgeries */

2014-06-07T20:10:22Z

New wrinkle: Hofmann forgeries

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:10, 7 June 2014
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	Quinn goes on to claim that:		Quinn goes on to claim that:

	:However, another former Danite took self-inflicted retribution for the death of Joseph Smith. When Nauvoo Mormons learned that Jonathan Dunham had ignored the prophet's direct order to lead the Nauvoo Legion in a rescue at Carthage Jail, some called him a "coward and traitor." Others dismissed him as a "fool and idiot."....<ref = "quinn"></ref>{{Rp\|179}}		:However, another former Danite took self-inflicted retribution for the death of Joseph Smith. When Nauvoo Mormons learned that Jonathan Dunham had ignored the prophet's direct order to lead the Nauvoo Legion in a rescue at Carthage Jail, some called him a "coward and traitor." Others dismissed him as a "fool and idiot."....<ref name = "quinn"></ref>{{Rp\|179}}

	He here uses the same citation as before: the Jesse volume, with its forged Hofmann document.		He here uses the same citation as before: the Jesse volume, with its forged Hofmann document.

GregSmith: /* New wrinkle: Hofmann forgeries */

2014-06-07T20:10:00Z

New wrinkle: Hofmann forgeries

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:10, 7 June 2014
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	:The morning of 27 July, Smith sent an order (in his own handwriting) to Major-General Jonathan Dunham to lead the Nauvoo Legion in a military attack on Carthage "immediately" to free the prisoners. Dunham realized that such an assault by the Nauvoo Legion would result in two blood baths—one in Carthage and another when anti-Mormons (and probably the Illinois militia) retaliated by laying siege to Nauvoo for insurrection. To avoid civil war and the destruction of Nauvoo's population, Dunham refused to obey the order and did not notify Smith of his decision. One of his lieutenants, a former Danite, later complained that Dunham "did not let a single mortal know that he had received such orders."		:The morning of 27 July, Smith sent an order (in his own handwriting) to Major-General Jonathan Dunham to lead the Nauvoo Legion in a military attack on Carthage "immediately" to free the prisoners. Dunham realized that such an assault by the Nauvoo Legion would result in two blood baths—one in Carthage and another when anti-Mormons (and probably the Illinois militia) retaliated by laying siege to Nauvoo for insurrection. To avoid civil war and the destruction of Nauvoo's population, Dunham refused to obey the order and did not notify Smith of his decision. One of his lieutenants, a former Danite, later complained that Dunham "did not let a single mortal know that he had received such orders."

	:* Citing: "Joseph Smith to Jonathan Dunham, 27 June 1844, in Jessee, ''Personal Writings of Joseph Smith'', xxv, 616-17; {{HC1\|vol=6\|start=529}} referred to this order but neither quoted nor summarized it....Allen J. Stout journal, 13; also T. B. H. Stenhouse, The Rocky Mountain Saints...,164n, told the incident without naming Dunham."<ref name="quinn"></ref>{{Rp\|141}}		:* Citing: "Joseph Smith to Jonathan Dunham, 27 June 1844, in Jessee, ''Personal Writings of Joseph Smith'', xxv, 616-17; {{HC1\|vol=6\|start=529}} referred to this order but neither quoted nor summarized it....Allen J. Stout journal, 13; also T. B. H. Stenhouse, The Rocky Mountain Saints...,164n, told the incident without naming Dunham."<ref name="quinn">{{CriticalWork:Quinn:Mormon Hierarchy}}</ref>{{Rp\|141}}

	We note too that the ''History of the Church'' citation is also in error; Quinn transposed two numbers; the correct citation is 6:592. Despite this claim, there is no mention in ''History of the Church'' that Joseph wrote a letter to Dunham urging him to come to their rescue. Joseph wrote several known letters to Dunham, none of which supports Quinn's claim. The ''History of the Church'' entry reads:		We note too that the ''History of the Church'' citation is also in error; Quinn transposed two numbers; the correct citation is 6:592. Despite this claim, there is no mention in ''History of the Church'' that Joseph wrote a letter to Dunham urging him to come to their rescue. Joseph wrote several known letters to Dunham, none of which supports Quinn's claim. The ''History of the Church'' entry reads:

GregSmith: /* New wrinkle: Hofmann forgeries */

2014-06-07T20:09:32Z

New wrinkle: Hofmann forgeries

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:09, 7 June 2014
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	:The morning of 27 July, Smith sent an order (in his own handwriting) to Major-General Jonathan Dunham to lead the Nauvoo Legion in a military attack on Carthage "immediately" to free the prisoners. Dunham realized that such an assault by the Nauvoo Legion would result in two blood baths—one in Carthage and another when anti-Mormons (and probably the Illinois militia) retaliated by laying siege to Nauvoo for insurrection. To avoid civil war and the destruction of Nauvoo's population, Dunham refused to obey the order and did not notify Smith of his decision. One of his lieutenants, a former Danite, later complained that Dunham "did not let a single mortal know that he had received such orders."		:The morning of 27 July, Smith sent an order (in his own handwriting) to Major-General Jonathan Dunham to lead the Nauvoo Legion in a military attack on Carthage "immediately" to free the prisoners. Dunham realized that such an assault by the Nauvoo Legion would result in two blood baths—one in Carthage and another when anti-Mormons (and probably the Illinois militia) retaliated by laying siege to Nauvoo for insurrection. To avoid civil war and the destruction of Nauvoo's population, Dunham refused to obey the order and did not notify Smith of his decision. One of his lieutenants, a former Danite, later complained that Dunham "did not let a single mortal know that he had received such orders."

	:* Citing: "Joseph Smith to Jonathan Dunham, 27 June 1844, in Jessee, ''Personal Writings of Joseph Smith'', xxv, 616-17; {{HC1\|vol=6\|start=529}} referred to this order but neither quoted nor summarized it....Allen J. Stout journal, 13; also T. B. H. Stenhouse, The Rocky Mountain Saints...,164n, told the incident without naming Dunham."<ref name="quinn"</ref>{{Rp\|141}}		:* Citing: "Joseph Smith to Jonathan Dunham, 27 June 1844, in Jessee, ''Personal Writings of Joseph Smith'', xxv, 616-17; {{HC1\|vol=6\|start=529}} referred to this order but neither quoted nor summarized it....Allen J. Stout journal, 13; also T. B. H. Stenhouse, The Rocky Mountain Saints...,164n, told the incident without naming Dunham."<ref name="quinn"></ref>{{Rp\|141}}

	We note too that the ''History of the Church'' citation is also in error; Quinn transposed two numbers; the correct citation is 6:592. Despite this claim, there is no mention in ''History of the Church'' that Joseph wrote a letter to Dunham urging him to come to their rescue. Joseph wrote several known letters to Dunham, none of which supports Quinn's claim. The ''History of the Church'' entry reads:		We note too that the ''History of the Church'' citation is also in error; Quinn transposed two numbers; the correct citation is 6:592. Despite this claim, there is no mention in ''History of the Church'' that Joseph wrote a letter to Dunham urging him to come to their rescue. Joseph wrote several known letters to Dunham, none of which supports Quinn's claim. The ''History of the Church'' entry reads:

GregSmith: /* New wrinkle: Hofmann forgeries */

2014-06-07T20:09:13Z

New wrinkle: Hofmann forgeries

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:09, 7 June 2014
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	:The morning of 27 July, Smith sent an order (in his own handwriting) to Major-General Jonathan Dunham to lead the Nauvoo Legion in a military attack on Carthage "immediately" to free the prisoners. Dunham realized that such an assault by the Nauvoo Legion would result in two blood baths—one in Carthage and another when anti-Mormons (and probably the Illinois militia) retaliated by laying siege to Nauvoo for insurrection. To avoid civil war and the destruction of Nauvoo's population, Dunham refused to obey the order and did not notify Smith of his decision. One of his lieutenants, a former Danite, later complained that Dunham "did not let a single mortal know that he had received such orders."		:The morning of 27 July, Smith sent an order (in his own handwriting) to Major-General Jonathan Dunham to lead the Nauvoo Legion in a military attack on Carthage "immediately" to free the prisoners. Dunham realized that such an assault by the Nauvoo Legion would result in two blood baths—one in Carthage and another when anti-Mormons (and probably the Illinois militia) retaliated by laying siege to Nauvoo for insurrection. To avoid civil war and the destruction of Nauvoo's population, Dunham refused to obey the order and did not notify Smith of his decision. One of his lieutenants, a former Danite, later complained that Dunham "did not let a single mortal know that he had received such orders."

	:* Citing: "Joseph Smith to Jonathan Dunham, 27 June 1844, in Jessee, ''Personal Writings of Joseph Smith'', xxv, 616-17; {{HC1\|vol=6\|start=529}} referred to this order but neither quoted nor summarized it....Allen J. Stout journal, 13; also T. B. H. Stenhouse, The Rocky Mountain Saints...,164n, told the incident without naming Dunham."{{~~ref~~\|~~quinn.~~141}}		:* Citing: "Joseph Smith to Jonathan Dunham, 27 June 1844, in Jessee, ''Personal Writings of Joseph Smith'', xxv, 616-17; {{HC1\|vol=6\|start=529}} referred to this order but neither quoted nor summarized it....Allen J. Stout journal, 13; also T. B. H. Stenhouse, The Rocky Mountain Saints...,164n, told the incident without naming Dunham."<ref name="quinn"</ref>{{Rp\|141}}

	We note too that the ''History of the Church'' citation is also in error; Quinn transposed two numbers; the correct citation is 6:592. Despite this claim, there is no mention in ''History of the Church'' that Joseph wrote a letter to Dunham urging him to come to their rescue. Joseph wrote several known letters to Dunham, none of which supports Quinn's claim. The ''History of the Church'' entry reads:		We note too that the ''History of the Church'' citation is also in error; Quinn transposed two numbers; the correct citation is 6:592. Despite this claim, there is no mention in ''History of the Church'' that Joseph wrote a letter to Dunham urging him to come to their rescue. Joseph wrote several known letters to Dunham, none of which supports Quinn's claim. The ''History of the Church'' entry reads: