Book of Mormon/Chariots - Revision history

GregSmith at 04:08, 2 May 2024

2024-05-02T04:08:47Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:08, 2 May 2024
Line 17:		Line 17:
	}}		}}


			{{Critical sources box:Book of Mormon/Anachronisms/Chariots/CriticalSources}}
	{{endnotes sources}}		{{endnotes sources}}

GregSmith: /* top */Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}

2024-04-13T20:04:17Z

top: Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:04, 13 April 2024
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{~~FairMormon~~}}		{{Main Page}}
	<onlyinclude>		<onlyinclude>
	{{H2		{{H2

SpencerMarsh at 21:10, 16 July 2018

2018-07-16T21:10:27Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:10, 16 July 2018
Line 12:		Line 12:
	{{:Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?}}		{{:Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?}}
	{{:Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"}}		{{:Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"}}
	{{:Rappleye: In Maya ~~art from the~~ Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit.}}		{{:Rappleye: In Maya Classic Art}}
	{{FMEBar		{{FMEBar
	\|subject=More information on chariots in the Book of Mormon		\|subject=More information on chariots in the Book of Mormon

SpencerMarsh at 21:08, 16 July 2018

2018-07-16T21:08:20Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:08, 16 July 2018
Line 7:		Line 7:
	\|L1=Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?		\|L1=Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?
	\|L2=Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"		\|L2=Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"
			\|L3=Rappleye: In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit.
	}}		}}
	</onlyinclude>		</onlyinclude>
	{{:Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?}}		{{:Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?}}
	{{:Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"}}		{{:Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"}}
			{{:Rappleye: In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit.}}
	{{FMEBar		{{FMEBar
	\|subject=More information on chariots in the Book of Mormon		\|subject=More information on chariots in the Book of Mormon

SpencerMarsh at 20:59, 16 July 2018

2018-07-16T20:59:02Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:59, 16 July 2018
Line 12:		Line 12:
	{{:Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?}}		{{:Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?}}
	{{:Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"}}		{{:Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"}}
	{{:Rappleye: "In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit."}}
	{{FMEBar		{{FMEBar
	\|subject=More information on chariots in the Book of Mormon		\|subject=More information on chariots in the Book of Mormon

SpencerMarsh at 20:58, 16 July 2018

2018-07-16T20:58:29Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:58, 16 July 2018
Line 7:		Line 7:
	\|L1=Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?		\|L1=Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?
	\|L2=Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"		\|L2=Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"
	\|L3=Rappleye: "In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit."
	}}		}}
	</onlyinclude>		</onlyinclude>

SpencerMarsh at 20:49, 16 July 2018

2018-07-16T20:49:58Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:49, 16 July 2018
Line 13:		Line 13:
	{{:Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"}}		{{:Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"}}
	{{:Rappleye: "In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit."}}		{{:Rappleye: "In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit."}}
	<blockquote> Although not strictly an anachronism in the Biblical world, the use of chariot in the King James rendering of Song of Solomon 3:9 is another example where the translation may create a misunderstanding. The Hebrew word here is afiryon, which actually refers to a litter or palanquin, which is “an enclosed couch carried by bearers.” This interesting bit of trivia may be relevant to references to chariots in the Book of Mormon.

	Although late-19th century French archaeologist Désiré Charnay actually reported finding “chariots” in Mexico, these were merely “toys,” or figurines. No chariot-like wheeled vehicles have yet been found in pre-Columbian America, but litters or palanquins like that mentioned in the Song of Solomon were known and widely used for royal visits in Mesoamerica as early as the Late Preclassic period (ca. 300–50 BC).

	Although such a “chariot” would not be drawn by horses, it is important to notice that neither are the chariots in the Book of Mormon ever described as being pulled by horses, but rather are simply prepared with horses. In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit.
	The chariots of Lamoni are twice made ready for occasions not unlike those in which royal litters would be used to “conduct [the king] forth” (Alma 18:9) in Mesoamerica. Understanding the Book of Mormon in the context of translations, with the difficulties and imprecisions that all translations come with, can thus accommodate the mention of chariots, but it creates a considerably different picture than what we are used to envisioning here." </blockquote> <ref> [https://www.fairmormon.org/conference/august-2017/put-away-childish-things/ "Put Away Childish Things: Learning to Read the Book of Mormon with Mature Historical Thought"] by Neal Rappleye under 'Chariots and Translation'; FairMormon Conference 2017</ref>

	{{FMEBar		{{FMEBar
	\|subject=More information on chariots in the Book of Mormon		\|subject=More information on chariots in the Book of Mormon

SpencerMarsh at 20:47, 16 July 2018

2018-07-16T20:47:27Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:47, 16 July 2018
Line 7:		Line 7:
	\|L1=Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?		\|L1=Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?
	\|L2=Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"		\|L2=Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"
	\|L3= Rappleye: "In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit."		\|L3=Rappleye: "In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit."
	}}		}}
	</onlyinclude>		</onlyinclude>

SpencerMarsh at 20:46, 16 July 2018

2018-07-16T20:46:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:46, 16 July 2018
Line 12:		Line 12:
	{{:Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?}}		{{:Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?}}
	{{:Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"}}		{{:Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"}}
	~~==Rapplyeye~~: "In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit."==		{{:Rappleye: "In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit."}}
	<blockquote> Although not strictly an anachronism in the Biblical world, the use of chariot in the King James rendering of Song of Solomon 3:9 is another example where the translation may create a misunderstanding. The Hebrew word here is afiryon, which actually refers to a litter or palanquin, which is “an enclosed couch carried by bearers.” This interesting bit of trivia may be relevant to references to chariots in the Book of Mormon.		<blockquote> Although not strictly an anachronism in the Biblical world, the use of chariot in the King James rendering of Song of Solomon 3:9 is another example where the translation may create a misunderstanding. The Hebrew word here is afiryon, which actually refers to a litter or palanquin, which is “an enclosed couch carried by bearers.” This interesting bit of trivia may be relevant to references to chariots in the Book of Mormon.

SpencerMarsh: /* In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage,[126] thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made read...

2018-07-08T19:29:15Z

/* In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage,[126] thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made read...

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:29, 8 July 2018
Line 12:		Line 12:
	{{:Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?}}		{{:Question: In what context are chariots mentioned in the Book of Mormon?}}
	{{:Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"}}		{{:Gardner: "a correct approach to a Mesoamerican battle required all three elements: king, litter, and battle beast"}}
	==In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage,~~[126]~~ thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit.[~~127~~]==		==Rapplyeye: "In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit."==
			<blockquote> Although not strictly an anachronism in the Biblical world, the use of chariot in the King James rendering of Song of Solomon 3:9 is another example where the translation may create a misunderstanding. The Hebrew word here is afiryon, which actually refers to a litter or palanquin, which is “an enclosed couch carried by bearers.” This interesting bit of trivia may be relevant to references to chariots in the Book of Mormon.

			Although late-19th century French archaeologist Désiré Charnay actually reported finding “chariots” in Mexico, these were merely “toys,” or figurines. No chariot-like wheeled vehicles have yet been found in pre-Columbian America, but litters or palanquins like that mentioned in the Song of Solomon were known and widely used for royal visits in Mesoamerica as early as the Late Preclassic period (ca. 300–50 BC).

			Although such a “chariot” would not be drawn by horses, it is important to notice that neither are the chariots in the Book of Mormon ever described as being pulled by horses, but rather are simply prepared with horses. In Maya art from the Classic period (ca. AD 300–900), at least, an animal (often a dog) is frequently depicted as traveling near the litter as part of the entourage, thus indicating that both animal and royal litter would need to be made ready for a royal visit.
			The chariots of Lamoni are twice made ready for occasions not unlike those in which royal litters would be used to “conduct [the king] forth” (Alma 18:9) in Mesoamerica. Understanding the Book of Mormon in the context of translations, with the difficulties and imprecisions that all translations come with, can thus accommodate the mention of chariots, but it creates a considerably different picture than what we are used to envisioning here." </blockquote> <ref> [https://www.fairmormon.org/conference/august-2017/put-away-childish-things/ "Put Away Childish Things: Learning to Read the Book of Mormon with Mature Historical Thought"] by Neal Rappleye under 'Chariots and Translation'; FairMormon Conference 2017</ref>

	{{FMEBar		{{FMEBar
	\|subject=More information on chariots in the Book of Mormon		\|subject=More information on chariots in the Book of Mormon