Book of Mormon/Anachronisms/Shiz struggles to breathe - Revision history

Redirect fixer: Question: How is it possible for Shiz, after he had been beheaded, to raise up on his hands and struggle for breath? has been moved. It was automatically updated and now it redirects to The death of Shiz.

2023-03-12T22:11:02Z

Question: How is it possible for Shiz, after he had been beheaded, to raise up on his hands and struggle for breath? has been moved. It was automatically updated and now it redirects to The death of Shiz.

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	#REDIRECT [[~~Question: How is it possible for~~ Shiz~~, after he had been beheaded, to raise up on his hands and struggle for breath?~~]]		#REDIRECT [[The death of Shiz]]

RogerNicholson: Redirected page to Question: How is it possible for Shiz, after he had been beheaded, to raise up on his hands and struggle for breath?

2017-04-09T01:33:55Z

Redirected page to Question: How is it possible for Shiz, after he had been beheaded, to raise up on his hands and struggle for breath?

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	~~{{Resource Title\|Shiz struggles to breathe}}~~
	~~<onlyinclude>~~
	~~== ==~~
	~~{{QA label}}~~
	~~{{:~~Question: How is it possible for Shiz, after he had been beheaded, to raise up on his hands and struggle for breath?}}
	~~</onlyinclude>~~
	~~{{CriticalSources}}~~
	~~{{endnotes sources}}~~


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	~~[[en:Book of Mormon/Anachronisms/Shiz struggles to breathe]]~~
	~~[[pt:O Livro de Mórmon/Anacronismos/Shiz se esforça para respirar~~]]

RogerNicholson at 16:37, 12 May 2016

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	{{endnotes sources}}		{{endnotes sources}}


	~~{{FurtherReading}}~~

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RogerNicholson at 05:05, 16 March 2015

2015-03-16T05:05:48Z

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RogerNicholson at 04:59, 16 March 2015

2015-03-16T04:59:52Z

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	{{Resource Title\|Shiz struggles to breathe}}		{{Resource Title\|Shiz struggles to breathe}}
			<onlyinclude>
	== ==		== ==
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	Critics insist that this would not, or could not, happen.		Critics insist that this would not, or could not, happen.

	~~{{CriticalSources}}~~
	[[Image:mesencephalon_1.gif\|thumb\|200 px\|right\|Close-up of mid- and hind-brain; the mid-brain is the area above the pons. From: Henry Gray, ''Anatomy of the Human Body'', 1918, Fig 681. {{link\|url=http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus681.html}}.]]		[[Image:mesencephalon_1.gif\|thumb\|200 px\|right\|Close-up of mid- and hind-brain; the mid-brain is the area above the pons. From: Henry Gray, ''Anatomy of the Human Body'', 1918, Fig 681. {{link\|url=http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus681.html}}.]]

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	People in this "decerebrate" reflex posture can also display "opisthotonos," a position "characterized by rigidity and severe arching of the back, with the head thrown backwards. This is such that if a person were laid on his or her back, only the back of the head and the heels would touch the supporting surface."<ref>See {{link\|url=http://health.allrefer.com/health/opisthotonos-info.html}}</ref> If the person — as in Shiz's case — were face down, the body would appear to rise up, with the neck bent backward and the face upraised. This dramatic positioning would make it appear as if the person was 'struggling for breath,' even though such behavior is a mere reflex, and not intentional.		People in this "decerebrate" reflex posture can also display "opisthotonos," a position "characterized by rigidity and severe arching of the back, with the head thrown backwards. This is such that if a person were laid on his or her back, only the back of the head and the heels would touch the supporting surface."<ref>See {{link\|url=http://health.allrefer.com/health/opisthotonos-info.html}}</ref> If the person — as in Shiz's case — were face down, the body would appear to rise up, with the neck bent backward and the face upraised. This dramatic positioning would make it appear as if the person was 'struggling for breath,' even though such behavior is a mere reflex, and not intentional.

	~~== ==~~		</onlyinclude>
	{{~~Endnotes label~~}}		{{CriticalSources}}
	~~<references />~~		{{endnotes sources}}

GregSmith at 04:16, 26 May 2014

2014-05-26T04:16:02Z

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	The earliest reference to this criticism that FAIR has located occurred in the Reverend Benjamin Willmore's attack on the "absurd" beliefs of "Mormonism" in 1858:		The earliest reference to this criticism that FAIR has located occurred in the Reverend Benjamin Willmore's attack on the "absurd" beliefs of "Mormonism" in 1858:

	:There are some statements in your Book of Mormon which no reasonable man can believe. At page 614, I read of a man who rejoiced in the name of Coriantumr, a man who would somewhat surprise our men of war in the present day; they lay siege to cities and garrisons; but ‘It came to pass that Coriantumr did lay siege to the wilderness.’ Still even this worthy is outdone by his antagonist Shiz; for ‘It came to pass that when they had all fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with loss of blood. And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz. And it came to pass that after he had smote off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised upon his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.’ Reader, this is in the Book of Mormon, and Latter-day Saints believe it to be the Word of God!”{{ref~~\|willmore~~.~~1858}}~~		:There are some statements in your Book of Mormon which no reasonable man can believe. At page 614, I read of a man who rejoiced in the name of Coriantumr, a man who would somewhat surprise our men of war in the present day; they lay siege to cities and garrisons; but ‘It came to pass that Coriantumr did lay siege to the wilderness.’ Still even this worthy is outdone by his antagonist Shiz; for ‘It came to pass that when they had all fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with loss of blood. And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz. And it came to pass that after he had smote off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised upon his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.’ Reader, this is in the Book of Mormon, and Latter-day Saints believe it to be the Word of God!”<ref>Benjamin Willmore, "Mormonism Absurd," West Bromwich, [1858?]. </ref>

	The ''Millennial Star'' of 1858 noted that lower animals were capable of movement after decapitation, and argued that the behavior of decapitated prisoners suggested that such an occurrence was not implausible.{{~~ref~~\|ms.1}}		The ''Millennial Star'' of 1858 noted that lower animals were capable of movement after decapitation, and argued that the behavior of decapitated prisoners suggested that such an occurrence was not implausible.<ref>{{MS1\|author=Henry Whittall\|article=[http://books.google.ca/books?id=HFQoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA148 Anti-Mormon Objections Answered]\|vol=20\|date=1858\|num=10\|date=6 March 1858\|start=148–149}}</ref>

	===Long answered===		===Long answered===
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	:The following from a dispatch to the ''Liverpool Daily Post'' of February 1, 1900, on the occasion of the seizure of Spion Kop, in Natal, should effectually silence all criticism on that passage:		:The following from a dispatch to the ''Liverpool Daily Post'' of February 1, 1900, on the occasion of the seizure of Spion Kop, in Natal, should effectually silence all criticism on that passage:

	::‘There was an extraordinary incident in Wednesday’s battle. One of the Lancaster men, while in the act of firing in a prone position, had his head taken clean off by a large shell. To the astonishment of his comrades, the headless body quietly rose, stood upright for a few seconds, and then fell.’”{{~~ref~~\|ms.1900}}		::‘There was an extraordinary incident in Wednesday’s battle. One of the Lancaster men, while in the act of firing in a prone position, had his head taken clean off by a large shell. To the astonishment of his comrades, the headless body quietly rose, stood upright for a few seconds, and then fell.’”<ref>{{MS1\|author=Unsigned editorial {A.W. [Elder A. Wootton] wrote other editorial, Platte D. Lyman was editor and publisher}\|article=Untitled editorial\|vol=62\|num=2\|date=1900\|start=89}}</ref>

	===Perspectives from modern neuroanatomy===		===Perspectives from modern neuroanatomy===
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	Modern knowledge shows the Book of Mormon to be accurate on this point. Contrary to the critics' assumptions,		Modern knowledge shows the Book of Mormon to be accurate on this point. Contrary to the critics' assumptions,

	:''Shiz's death struggle illustrates the classic reflex posture that occurs in both humans and animals when the upper brain stem (midbrain/mesencephalon) is disconnected from the brain. The extensor muscles of the arms and legs contract, and this reflex action could cause Shiz to raise up on his hands'' {{~~ref~~\|~~hadfield1~~}}		:''Shiz's death struggle illustrates the classic reflex posture that occurs in both humans and animals when the upper brain stem (midbrain/mesencephalon) is disconnected from the brain. The extensor muscles of the arms and legs contract, and this reflex action could cause Shiz to raise up on his hands''<ref>{{BYUS1\|author=M. Gary Hadfield\|article=[https://byustudies.byu.edu/showtitle.aspx?title=6169 Neuropathology and the Scriptures]\|vol=33\|num=2\|date=1993\|start=324}}</ref>

	Cutting the brainstem in this location causes the muscles which ''extend'' (straighten) the arms and legs to contract. This makes the arms and legs rigid, which would raise a corpse up until lack of oxygen and blood loss caused eventual muscle failure.		Cutting the brainstem in this location causes the muscles which ''extend'' (straighten) the arms and legs to contract. This makes the arms and legs rigid, which would raise a corpse up until lack of oxygen and blood loss caused eventual muscle failure.

	People in this "decerebrate" reflex posture can also display "opisthotonos," a position "characterized by rigidity and severe arching of the back, with the head thrown backwards. This is such that if a person were laid on his or her back, only the back of the head and the heels would touch the supporting surface." {{~~ref~~\|~~decerebrate1~~}} If the person — as in Shiz's case — were face down, the body would appear to rise up, with the neck bent backward and the face upraised. This dramatic positioning would make it appear as if the person was 'struggling for breath,' even though such behavior is a mere reflex, and not intentional.		People in this "decerebrate" reflex posture can also display "opisthotonos," a position "characterized by rigidity and severe arching of the back, with the head thrown backwards. This is such that if a person were laid on his or her back, only the back of the head and the heels would touch the supporting surface."<ref>See {{link\|url=http://health.allrefer.com/health/opisthotonos-info.html}}</ref> If the person — as in Shiz's case — were face down, the body would appear to rise up, with the neck bent backward and the face upraised. This dramatic positioning would make it appear as if the person was 'struggling for breath,' even though such behavior is a mere reflex, and not intentional.

			== ==
			{{Endnotes label}}
			<references />

	~~=={{Endnotes label}}==~~
	~~#{{note\|willmore.1858}} Benjamin Willmore, "Mormonism Absurd," West Bromwich, [1858?].~~
	#{{note\|ms.1858}} {{MS1\|author=Henry Whittall\|article=Anti-Mormon Objections Answered\|vol=20\|date=1858\|num=10\|date=6 March 1858\|start=148–149}} {{link\|url=http://books.google.ca/books?id=HFQoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA148}}
	~~#{{note\|ms.1900}} {{MS1\|author=Unsigned editorial {A.W. [Elder A. Wootton] wrote other editorial, Platte D. Lyman was editor and publisher}\|article=Untitled editorial\|vol=62\|num=2\|date=1900\|start=89}}~~
	~~#{{note\|hadfield1}} {{BYUS1\|author=M. Gary Hadfield\|article=Neuropathology and the Scriptures\|vol=33\|num=2\|date=1993\|start=324}} {{GL1\|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?doc_id=283097}}~~
	~~#{{note\|decerebrate1}} See {{link\|url=http://health.allrefer.com/health/opisthotonos-info.html}}~~

	{{FurtherReading}}		{{FurtherReading}}

RogerNicholson: mod

2013-09-18T12:03:39Z

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	=={{Criticism label}}==		{{Resource Title\|Shiz struggles to breathe}}
			== ==
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	[[Image:Brain_1.gif\|thumb\|right\|The human brain. The midbrain is located at the level marked 'cerebral peduncle'. From: Henry Gray, ''Anatomy of the Human Body'', 1918, Fig 677. {{link\|url=http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus677.html}}.]]		[[Image:Brain_1.gif\|thumb\|right\|The human brain. The midbrain is located at the level marked 'cerebral peduncle'. From: Henry Gray, ''Anatomy of the Human Body'', 1918, Fig 677. {{link\|url=http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus677.html}}.]]

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	[[Image:mesencephalon_1.gif\|thumb\|200 px\|right\|Close-up of mid- and hind-brain; the mid-brain is the area above the pons. From: Henry Gray, ''Anatomy of the Human Body'', 1918, Fig 681. {{link\|url=http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus681.html}}.]]		[[Image:mesencephalon_1.gif\|thumb\|200 px\|right\|Close-up of mid- and hind-brain; the mid-brain is the area above the pons. From: Henry Gray, ''Anatomy of the Human Body'', 1918, Fig 681. {{link\|url=http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus681.html}}.]]

	=={{Conclusion label}}==		== ==
			{{Conclusion label}}

	With the death scene of Shiz, Joseph Smith provides the reader with a vivid example of a catastrophic mid-brain injury which is consistent with a weary, sloppy cut made by the exhausted Coriantumr. Being a seasoned warrior, Moroni likely knew that such behavior would be relatively rare on the battlefield, even if he did not understand the rather precise neuroanatomy needed to cause it.		With the death scene of Shiz, Joseph Smith provides the reader with a vivid example of a catastrophic mid-brain injury which is consistent with a weary, sloppy cut made by the exhausted Coriantumr. Being a seasoned warrior, Moroni likely knew that such behavior would be relatively rare on the battlefield, even if he did not understand the rather precise neuroanatomy needed to cause it.

RogerNicholson: mod

2012-03-29T15:26:16Z

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	[[Image:mesencephalon_1.gif\|thumb\|200 px\|right\|Close-up of mid- and hind-brain; the mid-brain is the area above the pons. From: Henry Gray, ''Anatomy of the Human Body'', 1918, Fig 681. {{link\|url=http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus681.html}}.]]		[[Image:mesencephalon_1.gif\|thumb\|200 px\|right\|Close-up of mid- and hind-brain; the mid-brain is the area above the pons. From: Henry Gray, ''Anatomy of the Human Body'', 1918, Fig 681. {{link\|url=http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus681.html}}.]]

	=={{~~Response~~ label}}==		=={{Conclusion label}}==
			With the death scene of Shiz, Joseph Smith provides the reader with a vivid example of a catastrophic mid-brain injury which is consistent with a weary, sloppy cut made by the exhausted Coriantumr. Being a seasoned warrior, Moroni likely knew that such behavior would be relatively rare on the battlefield, even if he did not understand the rather precise neuroanatomy needed to cause it.

			Shiz's death throes are a realistic touch, and represent a phenomenon that went unrecognized in the medical literature of the modern era until 1898. It is one more mark of the Book of Mormon's status as genuine history.

			== ==
			{{Response label}}

	===Earliest mention===		===Earliest mention===
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	People in this "decerebrate" reflex posture can also display "opisthotonos," a position "characterized by rigidity and severe arching of the back, with the head thrown backwards. This is such that if a person were laid on his or her back, only the back of the head and the heels would touch the supporting surface." {{ref\|decerebrate1}} If the person — as in Shiz's case — were face down, the body would appear to rise up, with the neck bent backward and the face upraised. This dramatic positioning would make it appear as if the person was 'struggling for breath,' even though such behavior is a mere reflex, and not intentional.		People in this "decerebrate" reflex posture can also display "opisthotonos," a position "characterized by rigidity and severe arching of the back, with the head thrown backwards. This is such that if a person were laid on his or her back, only the back of the head and the heels would touch the supporting surface." {{ref\|decerebrate1}} If the person — as in Shiz's case — were face down, the body would appear to rise up, with the neck bent backward and the face upraised. This dramatic positioning would make it appear as if the person was 'struggling for breath,' even though such behavior is a mere reflex, and not intentional.

	~~=={{Conclusion label}}==~~
	With the death scene of Shiz, Joseph Smith provides the reader with a vivid example of a catastrophic mid-brain injury which is consistent with a weary, sloppy cut made by the exhausted Coriantumr. Being a seasoned warrior, Moroni likely knew that such behavior would be relatively rare on the battlefield, even if he did not understand the rather precise neuroanatomy needed to cause it.

	Shiz's death throes are a realistic touch, and represent a phenomenon that went unrecognized in the medical literature of the modern era until 1898. It is one more mark of the Book of Mormon's status as genuine history.

	=={{Endnotes label}}==		=={{Endnotes label}}==
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	#{{note\|decerebrate1}} See {{link\|url=http://health.allrefer.com/health/opisthotonos-info.html}}		#{{note\|decerebrate1}} See {{link\|url=http://health.allrefer.com/health/opisthotonos-info.html}}

	=={{~~Further reading label}}==~~		{{FurtherReading}}

	~~==={{FAIR wiki articles label}}===~~
	~~{{Book of Mormon anachronisms}}~~

	~~<!--==={{FAIR web site label}}===~~
	*{{FAIR topical guide label}}-->

	~~==={{External links label}}===~~
	*{{FR-20-1-13}} <!--Norwood-->
	*John W. Welch, in "The 'Decapitation' of Shiz," ''Insights'' (November 1994): 2. {{link\|url=http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=insights&id=33}}

	~~==={{Printed material label}}===~~
	*{{BYUS\|author=M. Gary Hadfield\|article=Neuropathology and the Scriptures\|vol=33\|num=2\|date=1993\|start=313\|end=28}} {{GL1\|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?doc_id=283097}}
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	==={{Printed material label}}===		==={{Printed material label}}===
	*{{BYUS\|author=M. Gary Hadfield\|article=Neuropathology and the Scriptures\|vol=33\|num=2\|date=1993\|start=313\|end=28}} {{GL1\|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?doc_id=283097}}		*{{BYUS\|author=M. Gary Hadfield\|article=Neuropathology and the Scriptures\|vol=33\|num=2\|date=1993\|start=313\|end=28}} {{GL1\|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?doc_id=283097}}
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	=={{Criticism label}}==		=={{Criticism label}}==
	[[Image:Brain_1.gif\|thumb\|right\|The human brain. The midbrain is located at the level marked 'cerebral peduncle'. From: Henry Gray, ''Anatomy of the Human Body'', 1918, Fig 677. {{link\|url=http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus677.html}}.]]		[[Image:Brain_1.gif\|thumb\|right\|The human brain. The midbrain is located at the level marked 'cerebral peduncle'. From: Henry Gray, ''Anatomy of the Human Body'', 1918, Fig 677. {{link\|url=http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus677.html}}.]]