Antiquity of the Book of Abraham - Revision history

SpencerMarsh: Redirected page to Evidences for the Book of Abraham's Authenticity

2026-02-19T19:03:15Z

Redirected page to Evidences for the Book of Abraham's Authenticity

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	\|L1=Question: Since the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated date to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, does this mean that the events recorded in the Book of Abraham cannot be historical?
	~~}}</onlyinclude>~~


	==Question: Since the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated date to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, does this mean that the events recorded in the Book of Abraham cannot be historical?==

	~~<embedvideo service="youtube">https://youtu.be/ILU1mGUxEVo?t=456</embedvideo>~~

	~~===Introduction to the Criticism===~~
	In 1835, Joseph Smith, founder of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints], began the translation of some Egyptian papyri that was sold to him in the Church’s then-headquarters—Kirtland, Ohio. Joseph Smith claimed that the papyri purported to be the autobiographical writings of the ancient biblical patriarch Abraham. This translation was made part of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_works official canon] of the Church in the 1880s.

	In 1967, the Church acquired some surviving fragments of the papyri from which the translation was rendered from the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Museum_of_Art New York Metropolitan Museum of Art] through the help of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aziz_Suryal_Atiya Dr. Aziz Atiya], a professor at the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Utah University of Utah].

	As [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrology papyrological] work was done, scholars discovered that the papyrus dated to at least 1700 years (Between 300 BCE – 100 CE) after the prophet Abraham is traditionally claimed to have lived (2000 BCE).<ref>"Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham," The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, accessed November 4, 2019, https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng&query=Abraham.</ref>

	~~Many have naturally asked the question of how can the papyri date to such a late time and record genuinely historical events from the life of the supposedly historical Abraham.~~

	~~This article addresses the question.~~

	~~===Review of the Criticism===~~
	~~====Examples of Texts that have Survived for Long Periods of Time====~~
	In response to the above criticism, it may be noted that we do have knowledge of texts that record historical events and survive [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribe scribal] transmission for a long period of time.

	~~For example, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_the_Dead The Book of the Dead] was copied from the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Kingdom_of_Egypt New Kingdom] period of ancient~~ [~~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt Egyptian] history clear down to the end of the~~ [~~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_Kingdom Ptolemaic Period]. That's 1000+ years of transmission.~~

	Additionally, the oldest portions of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah Pentateuch] (e.g. the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_Moses Song of Moses] in Exodus 15) were passed through scribal transmission for well over 1,500+ years.

	What's more, narrative texts from the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Kingdom_of_Egypt Middle Kingdom] period in Egyptian history like the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Story_of_Sinuhe Story of Sinuhe] were preserved in copies belonging to the New Kingdom period, which would be around 700+ years of transmission.

	Perhaps our best parallel would be the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible Holy Bible]. It has a pretty long manual transmission history from [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autograph_(disambiguation) autographs] penned in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age Iron Age] all the way down to when they were placed in print editions of the Bible starting in the 1500s. In other words, people were hand-copying these texts with a fair degree of accuracy for ~~over 3,000 years and yet we hold their texts as fairly accurate historically speaking.~~

	~~====Elements of~~ the Book of Abraham ~~that Date to the Time of Abraham====~~
	Elements from the Book of Abraham that can definitively place it in the time that the historical Abraham is claimed to live can help us construct the historical core of the Book of Abraham and bolster the claim of historical authenticity. Some of these elements that can more than plausibly date to Abraham’s day include:

	*[https://www.pearlofgreatpricecentral.org/human-sacrifice/ Human sacrifice]
	*[https://www.pearlofgreatpricecentral.org/the-idolatrous-god-of-elkenah/ The God of Elkenah]
	*[https://www.pearlofgreatpricecentral.org/olishem/ Olishem]
	*The idolatrous gods represented by the canopic jars in facsimile 1.<ref>John Gee, "[https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/four-idolatrous-gods-in-the-book-of-abraham/ Four Idolatrous Gods in the Book of Abraham]," ''Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship'' 38 (2020): 133–52.</ref>
	*Stating that autographs are “written in the hand” of that person.<ref>"Abraham and Idrimi," Pearl of Great Price Central, August 1, 2019 https://www.pearlofgreatpricecentral.org/abraham-and-idrimi/.</ref>
	*Identification of Shinehah as “the sun”.<ref>"Shinehah, The Sun," Pearl of Great Price Central, October 23, 2019, https://www.pearlofgreatpricecentral.org/shinehah-the-sun/.</ref>
	*The name "Shulem" as reference to the king's waiter.<ref>John Gee, "[https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/shulem-one-of-the-kings-principal-waiters/ Shulem, One of the King's ~~Principal Waiters]," ''Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship'' 19 (2016): 383–95.</ref>~~
	*[https://www.pearlofgreatpricecentral.org/abrahamic-astronomy/ The astronomy of the Book of Abraham].
	*[https://www.pearlofgreatpricecentral.org/sobek-the-god-of-pharaoh/ The identification of a crocodile as "The God of Pharoah"].

	~~====Stephen Smoot and Kerry Muhelstein’s Paper on the Transmission of the Book of Abraham====~~
	Stephen O. Smoot—a PhD student in Egyptian and Semitic Languages and Literature—and Dr. Kerry Muhelstein (PhD Egyptology, UCLA)—a professor of ancient scripture at Brigham Young University—have outlined a plausible scenario in which a text containing the autobiographical writings of Abraham could have been preserved and transmitted for that long of time and on the type of papyrus that Joseph Smith claimed to translate from. We strongly encourage readers to review their paper published in ''BYU Studies'' on the subject.

	~~{{BYUStudiesBar~~
	~~\|link=https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/prophets-pagans-and-papyri/~~
	~~\|title= Prophets, Pagans, and Papyri: The Jews of Greco-Roman Egypt and the Transmission of the Book of Abraham~~
	~~\|author=Stephen O. Smoot and Kerry Muhelstein~~
	~~\|vol=61~~
	~~\|num=2~~
	~~\|date=2022~~
	\|summary=Complications and questions abound regarding the historicity of the Book of Abraham, its relationship to the papyri owned by Joseph Smith, the way it was translated, and the Prophet’s interpretation of the three facsimiles that accompany the text. Given the gaps in the historical record (to say nothing of the diverse methodological assumptions that have undergirded different approaches to the text), this subject will give scholars plenty of fodder for continued academic investigation. One question that remains open for examination is how a purported autobiography of the patriarch Abraham could have been transmitted from his time (most likely circa 2,000–1,800 BC) into the Ptolemaic period (when the Joseph Smith Papyri were created)—a journey of well over a millennium and a half! How feasible or likely is it that a copy of Abraham’s writings could have been recovered from a point in history so far removed from his own time? How was the text transmitted, and when? And by whom? And for what purpose(s)? And how likely is it that Abraham’s writings would have been associated with a collection of funerary papyri seemingly unrelated to anything Jewish or biblical?
	}}

	~~===Conclusion===~~
	These and other elements can combine to help us understand that, even though a text does have a very, very long transmission history, it can still plausibly preserve literal historical events from the lives of the first authors. That does not mean that the text as it has been preserved to us today must have originated entirely from the mind of the historical Abraham. Scribes and redactora could have made inspired emendations to the text over the years and we would still have a text that dates originally to the time of Abraham. In sum, we have no reason to believe that the dating of the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated threatens the possibility of being genuine writings from the prophet Abraham and no reason to believe that the dating of the papyri threatens the core theology of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
	~~{{endnotes sources}}~~

GregSmith at 03:00, 2 May 2024

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			==Question: Since the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated date to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, does this mean that the events recorded in the Book of Abraham cannot be historical?==

	<embedvideo service="youtube">https://youtu.be/ILU1mGUxEVo?t=456</embedvideo>		<embedvideo service="youtube">https://youtu.be/ILU1mGUxEVo?t=456</embedvideo>

	==Question: Since the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated date to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, does this mean that the events recorded in the Book of Abraham cannot be historical?==
	===Introduction to the Criticism===		===Introduction to the Criticism===
	In 1835, Joseph Smith, founder of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints], began the translation of some Egyptian papyri that was sold to him in the Church’s then-headquarters—Kirtland, Ohio. Joseph Smith claimed that the papyri purported to be the autobiographical writings of the ancient biblical patriarch Abraham. This translation was made part of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_works official canon] of the Church in the 1880s.		In 1835, Joseph Smith, founder of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints], began the translation of some Egyptian papyri that was sold to him in the Church’s then-headquarters—Kirtland, Ohio. Joseph Smith claimed that the papyri purported to be the autobiographical writings of the ancient biblical patriarch Abraham. This translation was made part of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_works official canon] of the Church in the 1880s.

GregSmith at 02:59, 2 May 2024

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DavidSmith: navigation

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← Older revision		Revision as of 17:26, 9 November 2023
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	~~#REDIRECT~~ [[Kinderhook ~~Plates~~]]		{{FairMormon}}
			{{Navigation Joseph Smith}}

			<onlyinclude>
			{{H2
			\|L=Kinderhook Plates
			\|H=Joseph Smith and the Kinderhook plates
			\|S=A set of small plates, engraved with characters of ancient appearance, were purported to have been unearthed in Kinderhook, Illinois, in April 1843. The so-called "Kinderhook plates" have been something of an enigma within the Mormon community since they first appeared. While there are faithful LDS who take a number of different positions on the topic of these artifacts, most have concluded that they were fakes. This article summarizes some key information that critics often exclude from their discussion of the Kinderhook plates, and the extent of Joseph Smith's involvement.
			\|L1=Question: What are the Kinderhook Plates?
			\|L2=Question: Why does History of the Church say that Joseph Smith said "I have translated a portion of them..."?
			\|L3=Question: Did Joseph Smith attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates?
			\|L4=Question: Did Joseph attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates using the "gift and power of God?"
			\|L5=Question: What does Joseph's attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates tell us about his "gift of translation?"
			\|L6=Question: Why is the statement of William Clayton regarding the Kinderhook Plates in ''History of the Church'' written as if Joseph Smith himself said it?
			\|L7="‘President Joseph Has Translated a Portion’: Solving the Mystery of the Kinderhook Plates"
			}}
			</onlyinclude>
			{{:Question: What are the Kinderhook Plates?}}
			{{:Question: Why does ''History of the Church'' say that Joseph Smith said "I have translated a portion of them..."?}}
			{{:Question: Did Joseph Smith attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates?}}
			{{:Question: Did Joseph attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates using the "gift and power of God?"}}
			{{:Question: What does Joseph's attempt to translate the Kinderhook Plates tell us about his "gift of translation?"}}
			{{:Question: Why is the statement of William Clayton regarding the Kinderhook Plates in ''History of the Church'' written as if Joseph Smith himself said it?}}
			===== =====
			{{SummaryItem
			\|link=Forgeries related to Mormonism/Joseph Smith and the Kinderhook Plates/Could the "Egyptian Alphabet" have been the Anthon transcript
			\|subject=Could the "Egyptian Alphabet" used in an attempt to translate the Kinderhook plates have actually been the Anthon transcript?
			\|summary=A non-Mormon made the following statement regarding the Kinderhook Plates: ""They were brought up and shown to Joseph Smith. He compared them in my presence with his Egyptian alphabet, which he took from the plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated..." Why does the non-Mormon eyewitness say that the "Egyptian Alphabet" was "from the plates which the Book of Mormon was translated?"
			\|L1=Question: Why does the non-Mormon eyewitness say that the "Egyptian Alphabet" was "from the plates which the Book of Mormon was translated"?
			\|L2=Question: When was the "Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language" produced?
			\|L3=Question: Couldn't the "Egyptian Alphabet" have referred to the "reformed Egyptian" characters on the Anthon transcript?
			\|L4=Question: Does anyone assert that the GAEL was an actual correlation between Egyptian and the explanations offered?
			}}
			===== =====
			{{SummaryItem
			\|link=Forgeries related to Mormonism/Joseph Smith and the Kinderhook Plates/Accounts
			\|subject=Accounts
			\|summary=A summary of all of the accounts of the recovery of the Kinderhook plates.
			}}

			{{PerspectivesBar
			\|link=http://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Don-Bradley-Kinderhook-President-Joseph-Has-Translated-a-Portion-1.pdf
			\|title=‘President Joseph Has Translated a Portion’: Solving the Mystery of the Kinderhook Plates
			\|author=Don Bradley
			\|authorlink=http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/authors/bradley-don
			\|authorphoto=BradleyDon.png
			\|publication=Proceedings of the 2011 FAIR Conference
			\|date=August 2011
			\|summary=So, a larger conclusion that we can draw is that we’ve got both the smoking-gun – the GAEL that he uses to translate, and we’ve got an eyewitness. We know exactly how Joseph Smith attempted to translate from the Kinderhook plates and obtain the content that Clayton says he did. A larger conclusion, then, that we can draw is that Joseph Smith translated from the Kinderhook plates not by revelation, but by non-revelatory means.
			}}

			{{CriticalSources}}
			{{endnotes sources}}
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			[[de:Mormonismus betreffende Fälschungen/Kinderhook Platten]]
			[[es:Falsificaciones relacionados con el Mormonismo/José Smith y las Planchas de Kinderhook]]
			[[es:Falsificaciones relacionados con el Mormonismo/José Smith y las Planchas de Kinderhook]]
			[[pt:Falsificações Relacionadas ao Mormonismo/Joseph Smith e as placas de Kinderhook]]


			[[Category:John Dehlin's "Questions and Answers"]]

DavidSmith: navigation

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← Older revision		Revision as of 17:23, 9 November 2023
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	~~{{Navigation CES Letter}}~~


	~~{{Header}}~~

	~~The CES Letter lists several concerns about prophets. Below are links to various FAIR resources and other resources responding to each concern.~~

	~~===Adam-God===~~
	*[~~https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2021/11/24/29901 "The CES Letter Rebuttal, Part 28: Prophet Questions, Section B"]~~
	*[~~[Mormonism and doctrine/Repudiated concepts/Adam-God theory\|Brigham Young's Adam-God theory]]~~

	~~===Blood Atonement===~~
	*[https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2021/11/26/the-ces-letter-rebuttal-part-29 "The CES Letter Rebuttal, Part 29: Prophet Questions, Section C"]
	*[[Mormonism and doctrine/Repudiated concepts/Blood atonement\|Blood atonement]]

	~~===Polygamy===~~
	*[https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2021/12/01/the-ces-letter-rebuttal-part-30 "The CES Letter Rebuttal, Part 30: Prophet Questions, Section D"]
	*[[Plural marriage as a requirement for exaltation]]

	~~===Blacks Ban===~~
	*[https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2021/12/03/the-ces-letter-rebuttal-part-31 "The CES Letter Rebuttal, Part 31: Prophet Questions, Section E"]
	*[https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2021/12/08/29951 "The CES Letter Rebuttal, Part 32: Prophet Questions, Section F"]
	*[https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2021/12/10/the-ces-letter-rebuttal-part-33 "The CES Letter Rebuttal, Part 33: Prophet Questions, Section G"]
	*[[Blacks and the priesthood]]

	~~===Mark Hofmann===~~
	*[https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2021/12/15/29961 "The CES Letter Rebuttal, Part 34: Prophet Questions, Section H"]
	*[[Mark Hofmann]]

	~~===''Conclusion''===~~
	~~The CES Letter concludes this section with a few paragraphs commenting generally on prophets. Below are resources regarding these concerns.~~
	*[https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2021/12/17/29963 "The CES Letter Rebuttal, Part 35: Prophet Questions, Section I"]
	*[https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2021/11/19/the-ces-letter-rebuttal-part-27 "The CES Letter Rebuttal, Part 27: Prophet Questions, Section A"]
	*[https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2021/11/24/29901 "The CES Letter Rebuttal, Part 28: Prophet Questions, Section B"]
	*[[Fallibility of prophets]]
	*[[Modern prophets and prophecy]]
	*[[Fulfillment of prophecy]]

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-*[[Joseph Smith's First Vision]]
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DavidSmith: Plural marriage (or polygamy)/Twentieth century LDS publications on plural marriage has been moved. It was automatically updated and now it redirects to Twentieth century LDS publications which discuss plural marriage.

2023-11-09T17:12:06Z

Plural marriage (or polygamy)/Twentieth century LDS publications on plural marriage has been moved. It was automatically updated and now it redirects to Twentieth century LDS publications which discuss plural marriage.

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	\|H=~~Preservation of the Ancient Core of the Book of Abraham~~		*[[Joseph Smith's First Vision]]
	\|S=The papyri from which the Book of Abraham date to between 300 BCE - 100 AD. Some have asked how a story about Abraham, who is claimed to live in the year 2000 BCE, can possibly retain an ancient core given the long amount of time it would have to survive scribal transmission. These articles explore these charges.
	\|L1=Question: Since the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated date to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, does this mean that the events recorded in the Book of Abraham cannot be historical?
	}}		}}
	~~</onlyinclude>~~
	{{:Question: Since the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated date to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, does this mean that the events recorded in the Book of Abraham cannot be historical?}}
	~~{{endnotes sources}}~~

SpencerMarsh at 19:53, 30 October 2019

2019-10-30T19:53:42Z

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	\|H=Preservation of the Ancient Core of the Book of Abraham		\|H=Preservation of the Ancient Core of the Book of Abraham
	\|S=The papyri from which the Book of Abraham date to between 300 BCE - 100 AD. Some have asked how a story about Abraham, who is claimed to live in the year 2000 BCE, can possibly retain an ancient core given the long amount of time it would have to survive scribal transmission. These articles explore these charges.		\|S=The papyri from which the Book of Abraham date to between 300 BCE - 100 AD. Some have asked how a story about Abraham, who is claimed to live in the year 2000 BCE, can possibly retain an ancient core given the long amount of time it would have to survive scribal transmission. These articles explore these charges.
	\|L1=Question: Since the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated date to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, does this mean that the events recorded in the Book of Abraham ~~have no possibility of being genuinely related to a~~ historical ~~Abraham~~?		\|L1=Question: Since the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated date to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, does this mean that the events recorded in the Book of Abraham cannot be historical?
	}}		}}
	</onlyinclude>		</onlyinclude>
	{{:Question: Since the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated date to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, does this mean that the events recorded in the Book of Abraham ~~have no possibility of being genuinely related to a~~ historical ~~Abraham~~?}}		{{:Question: Since the papyri from which the Book of Abraham was translated date to the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, does this mean that the events recorded in the Book of Abraham cannot be historical?}}
	{{endnotes sources}}		{{endnotes sources}}