FAIR - User contributions [en]

Racial issues and the Church of Jesus Christ/Blacks and the priesthood

2007-05-12T02:02:50Z

StevenDanderson: /* Further deails */

{{RacePortal}}
{{Summary}}
==Criticism==

*Critics argue that God would not allow His church to ever deny blessings or privileges based on race.
*They are critical of the Church waiting until 1978 to lift the ban on ordaining black members to the priesthood.
*They [[Quote_mining%2C_selective_quotation%2C_and_distortion | mine quotes]] made by Latter-day Saint leaders prior to 1978 to portray the church as racist in its doctrines.
*They cite passages from LDS scripture that Latter-day Saints used to provide a rationale for the priesthood ban.
*They question the revelatory process that brought about the policy shift, portraying it as a response to social pressure or government threats to remove the church's tax-free status.

==Introduction==

Members of African descent were restricted from holding the LDS Church's lay priesthood until 1978. Critics with an agenda, as well as sincere seekers with a laudable abhorence of racism have used this fact to portray the former (or present) Church and its members as racist.

Understanding the priesthood ban is sometimes difficult, because the historical record is not entirely clear about the ban's institution. There is no contemporary, first-person account of the ban's implementation. Some members believe the ban was commanded by revelation. Others believe that Church leaders responded to threats and dangers facing the Church by restricting activities among black Americans in the pre-Civil War era, and that these policies and procedures persisted.

However, once the ban was in place—whether as a matter of revelation, or as a policy that arose out of the Church's 19th-century origins—members and leaders did not feel that they could simply "change" things.

Many modern Protestant denominations believe in a "priesthood of all believers," and settle doctrinal differences via councils, meetings, or plebescites. As new social realities develop (e.g., the civil rights movement, women's suffrage, "gay rights," etc.), denominations adapt or modify previous stances.

This is not how the Church functions, and non-members may not appreciate this fact. Members or leaders of the Church do not feel that they have the right to alter previous practices or doctrines without direct revelation from God. Much as the ban confused and troubled many members—black and white—leaders did not feel at liberty to alter them without divine guidance. It is also important to realize that priesthood, in the LDS tradition, is not a right, nor is it something to be used to grant or enhance spiritual or social "status."

Furthermore, efforts to use political pressure against the Church may have slowed the change, since members do not believe that God will allow the Church to appear 'manipulated' by outside forces to create a convenient 'revelation' merely to satisfy social pressures.

It also important to give credit to Church members' strengths in the pre-1978 period:
* Church doctrine never held that blacks were less than human or without souls, as some denominations did
* Joseph Smith taught that any mental or economic weakness suffered by blacks was not due to any in-born defect, but simply due to not having ample opportunity to advance and receive the same education as whites
* Church members were overwhelmingly abolitionist and were even persecuted and driven out because of their anti-slavery leanings
* the Church never had segregated congregations; all members worshipped together
* the Church supported equal civil rights for many years before the 1978 revelation: to the Church, the issue of priesthood was not one of civil rights or granting status, but of revelation.
* sociologic studies demonstrated that pre-1978 Mormons were no more or less racist than their contemporaries

==Racist doctrine?==

The most unfortunate legacy of the ban is perhaps an aspect that was least intended. Since many members were sincerely concerned about the justice of the ban, many sought to explain it through a variety of hypotheses. Such "doctrinal folklore" was never official, but became widespread as members sought to reconcile their ideas about the justice and mercy of God with the ban's reality. In a good faith effort to understand, members drew on ideas about blacks then current in Protestantism generally.

Leaders of the Church have repeatedly emphasized that such explanations were misguided, and never represented official doctrine.

For example, Elder Dallin H. Oaks pointed out that some leaders and members had ill-advisedly sought to provide justifications for the ban:

:...It's not the pattern of the Lord to give reasons. We can put reasons to commandments. When we do we're on our own. Some people put reasons to [the ban] and they turned out to be spectacularly wrong. There is a lesson in that.... The lesson I've drawn from that, I decided a long time ago that I had faith in the command and I had no faith in the reasons that had been suggested for it.

:...I'm referring to reasons given by general authorities and reasons elaborated upon [those reasons] by others. The whole set of reasons seemed to me to be unnecessary risk taking.

:...Let's [not] make the mistake that's been made in the past, here and in other areas, trying to put reasons to revelation. The reasons turn out to be man-made to a great extent. The revelations are what we sustain as the will of the Lord and that's where safety lies.{{ref|oaks1}}

Interviewed for a PBS special on the Church, Elder Jeffrey R. Holland said:

:One clear-cut position is that the folklore must never be perpetuated. ... I have to concede to my earlier colleagues. ... They, I'm sure, in their own way, were doing the best they knew to give shape to [the policy], to give context for it, to give even history to it. All I can say is however well intended the explanations were, I think almost all of them were inadequate and/or wrong. ...

:It probably would have been advantageous to say nothing, to say we just don't know, and, [as] with many religious matters, whatever was being done was done on the basis of faith at that time. But some explanations were given and had been given for a lot of years. ... At the very least, there should be no effort to perpetuate those efforts to explain why that doctrine existed. I think, to the extent that I know anything about it, as one of the newer and younger [apostles] to come along, ... we simply do not know why that practice, that policy, that doctrine was in place.{{ref|holland1}}

Recent remarks by the current prophet, President Hinckley, demonstrate that members of the LDS church must put aside any thoughts or legacy of racial intolerance or unkindness:

:Racial strife still lifts its ugly head. I am advised that even right here among us there is some of this. I cannot understand how it can be. It seemed to me that we all rejoiced in the 1978 revelation given President Kimball. I was there in the temple at the time that that happened. There was no doubt in my mind or in the minds of my associates that what was revealed was the mind and the will of the Lord.

:Now I am told that racial slurs and denigrating remarks are sometimes heard among us. I remind you that no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ. Nor can he consider himself to be in harmony with the teachings of the Church of Christ. How can any man holding the Melchizedek Priesthood arrogantly assume that he is eligible for the priesthood whereas another who lives a righteous life but whose skin is of a different color is ineligible?

:Throughout my service as a member of the First Presidency, I have recognized and spoken a number of times on the diversity we see in our society. It is all about us, and we must make an effort to accommodate that diversity.

:Let us all recognize that each of us is a son or daughter of our Father in Heaven, who loves all of His children.

:Brethren, there is no basis for racial hatred among the priesthood of this Church. If any within the sound of my voice is inclined to indulge in this, then let him go before the Lord and ask for forgiveness and be no more involved in such.{{ref|hinckley1}}

==Further details==

It is important to understand the history behind the priesthood ban to evaluate whether these criticisms have any merit and to contextualize the quotes with which LDS members are often confronted.

This is complex and sensitive issue, and definitive answers as to why God allowed the ban to happen await further revelation. There are some things we do not know, and we rely on faith that God will one day give us the answers to the questions of our mortal existence.

'''Please consult the sub-page which treats the issue(s) which interest you:'''

* Would God ever deny privileges based on race? {{wikilink|url=Blacks_and_the_priesthood:Deny based on race?}}
* What was the origin of the priesthood ban? {{wikilink|url=Blacks_and_the_priesthood:Origin of the priesthood ban?}}
* Given that the ban was rescinded in 1978, how should we understand pre-1978 statements by members and leaders of the Church?{{wikilink|url=Blacks_and_the_priesthood:Understanding pre-1978 statements}}
* What about LDS scriptures cited in support of the ban? {{wikilink|url=Blacks_and_the_priesthood:LDS scriptures}}
* What can you tell me about lifting the ban?{{wikilink|url=Blacks_and_the_priesthood:Lifting the ban}}
* Did social pressure play a role in lifting the ban?{{wikilink|url=Blacks_and_the_priesthood:Social pressure?}}
* Are there any previously-taught ideas which have been repudiated by Church leaders since the ban?{{wikilink|url=Blacks_and_the_priesthood:Repudiated ideas}}

==Conclusion==

Sometimes God withholds certain blessings from certain people without explaining why he does this. Sometimes this is a willful decision on his part expressed via direct revelation to his prophet. At other times, God allows his prophets to act as they feel best. In the case of the priesthood ban, we do not know which of these scenarios is applicable. What we ''do'' know, however, is that the ban was lifted by revelation in God's due time.

Past church leaders should be viewed as products of their times, no more racist than most of their American and Christian peers (and often surprisingly enlightened, given the surrounding culture). A proper understanding of the process of revelation creates a more realistic expectations of the Latter-day Saint prophet, instead of assumptions of infallibility foisted on the Saints by their critics.

Previous statements and scriptural interpretations that are no longer in harmony with current revelation should be discarded. We learn "line upon line, precept upon precept," and when modern revelation has shed new light, old assumptions made in the dark can be done away with.

==Endnotes==
#{{note|oaks1}}Dallin H. Oaks, Interview with Associated Press, in ''Daily Herald,'' Provo, Utah, 5 June 1988.
#{{note|holland1}} Jeffrey R. Holland, Interview, 4 March 2006. {{link|url=http://www.pbs.org/mormons/interviews/holland.html}}
#{{note|hinckley1}} {{Ensign | author=Gordon B. Hinckley | article=The Need for Greater Kindness|date=May 2006|start=58|end=61 }}{{link|url=http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/2006.htm/ensign%20may%202006.htm/the%20need%20for%20greater%20kindness.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0}}
==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===

{{BlacksPriesthoodWiki}}

===FAIR web site===

{{BlacksPriesthoodFAIR}}

===External links===

{{BlacksPriesthoodLinks}}

===Printed material===

{{BlacksPriesthoodPrint}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Letter (annotated)

2007-03-24T16:11:03Z

StevenDanderson:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Letter of Instruction to Distributors}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">This letter was provided to those who were to distribute the DVD. It provides a glimpse of their attitudes toward the Church of Jesus Christ, and the members whom they claim to be treating with "love." This version of the letter has comments added in blue by FAIR. Click [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:letter|here]] to see the letter without comments.</h2>
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PLEASE COPY THIS LETTER AND HAND IT OUT WITH EACH SAMPLE DVD

Dear Fellow Christian,

Enclosed is the sample copy of the brand new Jesus Christ/Joseph Smith DVD.

CAUTION: This video is to be viewed by CHRISTIANS ONLY until AFTER the nation-wide distribution which is scheduled for March 25, 2007. In-other-words, do not allow any Mormon people to view the video or learn of our intended evangelistic outreach until after March 25, 2007.

Why such extreme caution? If the leadership of the Mormon cult learns of our plans, they will publicly instruct their people not to watch the video and many Mormons will blindly obey.


:The DVD itself claims that LDS leaders were given the video for a chance to respond. But, here they tell distributors that they are carefully keeping the DVD a secret so that leaders will be unable to prepare their members.

:Why are they lying? (See discussion [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Summary|here]].)


ABOUT THE NATION-WIDE DISTRIBUTION AND EVANGELISTIC OUTREACH:

All that is required - HANGING THE DVD ON DOOR KNOBS THE VIDEO DOES THE TALKING and, in fact, we do not advise or encourage interaction with Mormon people until sometime after the distribution is complete.


:One purpose of the DVD is "boundary maintenance." This means that it is a tool used by some conservative Protestant groups to ensure that ''their flock'' will not become interested in Joseph Smith and the Church of Jesus Christ. The DVD is targeted partly at an evangelical audience, to have them remain convinced that the Mormons are an un-Christian cult; nothing must challenge the video's version of what Latter-day Saints "really" believe.

:Therefore, it is important that their distributors not discuss these issues with Latter-day Saints, lest they learn that the Saints believe a great many of the same things as they do about Christ. (See discussion [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Who Is Jesus?|here]].)


The reason for this approach is because the Mormon Church instructs its members to not receive any materials which are not "faith promoting" in regard to Mormonism. By simply hanging the DVD on doors, Mormon people do not have the option of refusing to accept it. After the DVD is in their home many will, out of curiosity, watch it.


:The Church encourages its members not to ''purchase'' anti-Mormon propaganda, for this only contributes money to their cause.

:However, there is no prohibition on reading material critical of the Church. In the ''Ensign'', the Church's official magazine, the question was asked, "Some people say it is best to leave alone materials that claim to 'expose' the Church and its teachings. What counsel has been given on this? How do we respond when a friend comes to us with questions found in such materials?" The reply given included these recommendations:

::''[Cautions about those who sell material aiming to destroy the Church] must not be interpreted to mean that the Church is against honest scholarship or has anything to fear or hide. Nor does the Church ban literature, but Latter-day Saints should be wise in choosing what to read.''
::''This cautionary counsel should not be misconstrued to justify laziness on our part in seeking answers, or giving glib, superficial replies when someone sincerely wants to know the truth after being exposed to anti-LDS material. Church critics and enemies should not be permitted to make what Elder Neal A. Maxwell of the Quorum of the Twelve has sometimes called "uncontested slam dunks."
::''Latter-day Saints should be sufficiently grounded in their testimonies and knowledge of Church doctrine and history that they can answer questions in a non-contentious and informative way. Elder Marvin J. Ashton of the Quorum of the Twelve has instructed Church members not to retaliate against attacks. "We encourage all our members to refuse to become anti-anti-Mormon," he said (''Ensign'', Nov. 1992, p. 63). Paul taught that coming to Christ requires "speaking the truth in love" (Eph. 4:15).
::''The First Presidency has encouraged Church members to convey their response to questions and criticism "in the form of a positive explanation of the doctrines and practices of the Church" (''Church News'', 18 Dec. 1983, p. 2).
::''Members should invite those with questions about Church doctrine and practices to read latter-day scriptures and to study the restored gospel, thus tasting the gospel fruit for themselves. Only then will they know "whether it be of God" (John 7:17).
::''When members lack answers, they should learn what Church leaders and reputable scholars have said and written. There is probably no charge against the Church that has not been adequately refuted by someone. When members can’t find answers on their own, they can turn to home and visiting teachers, quorum leaders, bishops, and stake presidents...Those willing to take time to research anti-LDS claims can find answers.''
:::—{{Ensign1|author=Gilbert W. Scharffs|article=I Have A Question|date=January 1995|start=60}}{{link|url=http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1995.htm/ensign%20january%201995.htm/i%20have%20a%20question.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0#LPTOC2}}

:Once again, the video is shown to make false claims about what the Church does and teaches. FAIR hopes to play a role in finding answers for those who take the time to research anti-Mormon claims.


We encourage distribution of DVDs in neighborhoods surrounding LDS churches and/or Temples. Consider the following facts gleaned from previous similar
distributions:

FOR MORMONS - The DVD will be instrumental in leading them out of Mormonism and into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.


:Note again the insistence that Mormons don't already have "a personal relationship with Jesus Christ." This is clearly false. (See discussion [[Search for the Truth DVD:Eternal Life|here]].)


FOR NON-MORMONS - The DVD exposes the false teachings of the Mormon cult. As a result, people who view the video are much less likely to be converted to Mormonism and these people often use the information found in the DVD to challenge their LDS neighbors and/or LDS missionaries.


:As noted above, the DVD producers want to 'protect' their own flocks from considering the message of modern prophets and witnesses of Jesus Christ. It is therefore vital that they convince their Christian audience that:
:*LDS teachings are false (and so, they must distort those teachings)''
:*Mormonism is a "cult" (they use fear and loaded language to vilify beliefs they do not share or understand)

:The DVD's Christian audience probably believes that a "Christian" ministry effort would never use lies and distortion, and so will trust what they hear. This is the real tragedy—well-meaning Christians will be misled about what their neighbors believe because of the dozens of deceptions in the ironically named ''Search for the Truth.''

:Their lies are less likely to be discovered by the unsuspecting Christians because the distribution team encourages their Christian distributors ''not'' to discuss the matter with LDS members beforehand.


THIS OPPORTUNITY IS TRULY A GOD SEND - God has led the producer of this video to freely give the DVD to Utah ministries (a gift exceeding a quarter of a million dollars). The producer has also offered this DVD at the production cost of .50 each to any Christian ministry outside of the state of Utah who will agree to participate in the NATION-WIDE distribution on March 25, 2007.


:Has God also led the producer and distributors to lie, deceive, and distort? To malign the sincere faith of others? To show enactments of the most sacred ordinances of their faith?


FOR YOUR INFORMATION:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Mormonism, is one of the largest, most powerful, and fastest growing cults in the world today.


:Again, the loaded word "cult" is used. This is essentially name calling, in which the speaker smears another religion with which he does not agree, without the trouble of having to discuss actual doctrines and beliefs. Note also the attempt to create a sense of urgency and sinister motive by focusing on the size, growth, and "power" of the "cult."

'''To read more:'''
* ''See'': {{Offenders1| start=1}})


Most people have been deceived into thinking that Mormonism is just another Christian religion. Most LDS converts are proselytized from Christian denominations.


:The producers' fears are again demonstrated: Christians are becoming Latter-day Saint Christians. Most LDS converts are Christians, and yet the letter wishes us to believe that all those Christians are seduced by the Mormons into thinking that the Church is Christian, when it really isn't.

:If so many Christians find the Church of Jesus Christ attractive, could it not be that they find that it ''adds'' to their understanding and joy in Christ?

:Thus, the DVD is willing to lie about the Church's beliefs to stem the tide of conversions.


Within the state of Utah, the number of Mormons has steadily declined over the past 10 years which teaches us three things:


:This claim is likewise false. (See [[LDS population in Utah|this article]].)

:This is a minor point, but it demonstrates how little the critics know about the Church, and how poor their research is.

:The ''number'' of members of the Church in Utah has risen, while the ''percentage'' of the state of Utah that is LDS has decreased.

:In 2006, the ''Salt Lake Tribune'' reported that that

::''"Utah's ongoing religious diversification has little to do with the LDS Church or its teachings, but rather is a reflection of the economy...When economic growth goes up, minority population goes up, and this is kind of a code word for non-Mormons...While continuing to grow in actual members, the LDS share of the state population showed a slow but constant decline every year from 1989 to 2004."'' {{link|url= http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_2886596}}



1 - Within Utah, we are doing a fairly good job of combating Mormonism;

2 - The growth of Mormonism is outside of the state of Utah which makes this NATION-WIDE distribution essentially important.

3 - The Mormon Church is vulnerable. We firmly believe that with enough exposure, Mormonism will crumble and become a shadow of what it is today.



:The decreased proportion of Mormons in Utah is not due to "combating" Mormonism, unless the critics are encouraging non-members to move to Utah.

:It is true, though, that the Church has more room for growth outside of Utah, and is doing so. Small wonder that the critics are worried, and willing to deceive potential converts.

'''To read more'''
* [[LDS population in Utah]]


Please join us in our efforts to shut down the Mormon machine and lead a multitude of lost souls out of this cult and into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.


:Once again, the Church is made to look impersonal and evil: it is a "machine," and a "cult" of "lost souls." It is much easier to justify deceiving and slandering a "machine" than a religion of committed Christians. In this way, it can be portrayed as "for their own good."

:The lie about a member's lack of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is again presented. (See discussion [[Search for the Truth DVD:Eternal Life|here]] and [[Search for the Truth DVD:Who Is Jesus?|here]]).


We believe that meditation upon JOHN chapter 15 (the entire chapter) will encourage you and answer your questions as to whether you should participate. WE CANNOT DO THIS WITHOUT YOUR HELP, PLEASE HELP US.


:John 15 does indeed provide some food for thought. One wishes the DVD producers and distributors had taken it to heart.

::This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. ({{s||John|15|12}})

:Did Jesus' love for others require Him to lie, slander, and distort their history and beliefs?

::But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.... ({{s||John|15|26}})

:Does the Holy Spirit truly bear witness to any honest Christian that the tactics, approach, and spirit of the ''Search for the Truth'' effort is from God?

:And, since Jesus recommends seeking the Holy Ghost, why does the video repeatedly mock the Latter-day Saints for appealing to it in their faith?

:*(See [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Summary|here]] where the Saints' witnesses from the Holy Ghost are smugly labeled as merely something "felt by simply watching a Hollywood movie.")
:*(See also [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Burning_in_the_Bosom|here]] for a detailed treatment of this issue.)

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Book of Abraham/Joseph Smith Papyri/Church disclosure of "Book of the Dead"

2007-03-24T15:37:58Z

StevenDanderson: /* Source(s) of the criticism */

{{BofAPortal}}

==Criticism==

Critics complain that the Joseph Smith papyri (JSP) are from the Egyptian "Book of the Dead." They claim that this "proves" Joseph Smith was a fraud, and insist that the Church has tried to hide this fact.

(This wiki article deals only with the charge that the Church has not been forthright with its members about the true nature of the JSP. Please see the Book of Abraham portal for other issues regarding the papyri, their interpretation, etc.)

===Source(s) of the criticism===
* {{SearchForTheTruthDVD}}
* Charles M. Larson, ''By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri'' (Paperback). Grand Rapids, MI: Inst for Religious Research (March 1992).

==Response==

===Timeline===
A review of the time-line of the papyri demonstrates that the Church quickly publicized the nature of the JSP in the official magazine of the time, ''The Improvement Era''.

There were 11 fragments discovered and given to the church. The Church was very quick in releasing this information to the membership and the world.

;November 27, 1967
:Church receives papyri.
;December 10–11, 1967
:Deadline to submit material for the January 1968 ''Improvement Era''.
;December 26–31, 1967
:January 1968 of ''Improvement Era'' issue mailed to subscribers.{{ref|ie1}}
;February 1968
:another fragment was discovered in the Church historian's files, and publicized in the February 1968 ''Era''.{{ref|ie2}}

===What was announced?===

The ''Improvement Era'' described the papyri, but never claimed they represented the source for the Book of Abraham, except the original of [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/fac_1 Fascsimile 1]:

:Perhaps no discovery in recent memory is expected to arouse as much widespread interest in the restored gospel as is the recent discovery of some Egyptian papyri, one of which is known to have been used by the prophet Joseph Smith in producing the Book of Abraham.

:The papyri, long thought to have been burned in the Chicago fire of 1871, were presented to the Church on November 27, 1967, in New York City by the metropolitan Museum of Art, more than a year after Dr. Aziz S. Atiya, former director of the University of Utah's Middle East Center, had made his startling discovery while browsing through the New York museum's papyri collection.

:Included in the collection of 11 manuscripts is one identified as the original document from which Joseph Smith obtained ''Facsimile 1'', which prefaces the Book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price. Accompanying the manuscripts was a letter dated May 26, 1856, signed by both Emma Smith Bidamon, widow of the Prophet Joseph Smith, and their son, Joseph Smith, attesting that the papyri had been the property of the Prophet.

:''Some of the pieces of papyrus apparently include conventional hieroglyphics'' (sacred inscriptions, resembling picture-drawing) and hieratic (a cursive shorthand version of hieroglyphics) ''Egyptian funerary texts, which were commonly buried with Egyptian mummies''. Often the funerary texts contained passages from the "Book of the Dead," a book that was to assist in the safe passage of the dead person into the spirit world. ''It is not known at this time whether the ten other pieces of papyri have a direct connection with the Book of Abraham.''{{ref|ie3}}

===Nibley provides more information===
In addition to photographs of the papyri and a discussion of their provenance, the ''Improvement Era'' began a continuing series of articles by LDS scholar [[Hugh Nibley]] in January 1968.

Nibley's material did nothing to hide the fact that the JSP were from the Egyptian Book of the Dead.{{ref|ie4}}

In August 1968, he repeatedly emphasized that much of the text was the Egyptian Book of the Dead:
*"...the texts of the 'Joseph Smith Papyri' identified as belonging to the Book of the Dead"'' (p. 55)
* "...The largest part of the Joseph Smith Papyri in the possession of the Church consists of fragments from the Egyptian Book of the Dead, the fragments having been recently translated and discussed by no less a scholar that Professor John A. Wilson."'' (p. 57)
*"These points can be illustrated by the mst easily recognized section of the Joseph Smith papyri, namely, the fragment with the picture of a swallow, Chapter 86 of the Book of the Dead..."''(p. 57)
*"..we may take the best-known picture from the Book of the Dead, the well-known judgment scene or 'Psychostasy,' a fine example of which is found among the Joseph Smith papyi."'' (p. 59)

Lest the reader miss this claim in the small print, it was reprinted in large bold type across two pages:

* "The largest parts of the...papyri in possession of the Church consists of fragments from the Egyptian Book of the Dead..." (pp. 56-57) [[Book_of_Abraham:Book of Dead Scan (full size zoom)|See image]] (680 KB).

==Conclusion==

Of the 11 fragments, one fragment has Facsimile 1, and the other 10 fragments are funerary texts, which the Church claimed from the moment the papyri were rediscovered.

There is no evidence that the Church has ever claimed that any of the 10 remaining fragments contain text which is contained in the Book of Abraham.

The critics are telling us nothing new when they dramatically "announce" that the JSP contain the Book of the Dead. The Church disseminated this information as widely as possible from the very beginning.

==Endnotes==

#{{note|ie1}}{{IE|author=Jay M. Todd|article=Egyptian Papyri Rediscovered|date=January 1968|start=12|end=16}}
#{{note|ie2}} {{IE1|author=Jay M. Todd|article=New Light on Joseph Smith's Egyptian Papyri: Additional Fragment Disclosed|date=February 1968|start=40}}; {IE|author=Jay M. Todd|article=Background of the Church Historian's Fragment|date=February 1968|start=40A|end=40I}}
#{{note|ie3}}{{IE|author=Jay M. Todd|article=Egyptian Papyri Rediscovered|date=January 1968|start=12|end=13}}{{ea}}
#{{note|ie4}}{{IE|author=Hugh Nibley|article=A New Look at the Pearl of Great Price|date=August 1968|start=53|end=63}} (page numbers of individual quotes mentioned in main text).

==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===
{{BookofAbrahamWiki}}

===FAIR web site===
{{BookofAbrahamFAIR}}

===External links===
{{BookofAbrahamLinks}}

===Printed material===
{{BookofAbrahamPrint}}

Jesus Christ/Accusations that Latter-day Saints aren't Christians

2007-02-28T05:06:46Z

StevenDanderson: /* Source(s) of the Criticism */

{{JesusChristPortal}}
==Criticism==
Critics claim that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not "Christian."

A related claim is that the Church has only recently begun to portray itself as "Christian" in order to gain adherents.

===Source(s) of the Criticism===
* ''The Utah Evangel'' 33 (July/August 1986): 1.
*Craig L. Blomberg. "Is Mormonism Christian?" in Francis Beckwith, et al. (editors), ''The New Mormon Challenge'' (Grand Rapids, Michigan : Zondervan, 2002), 315–332.
* Jolene Coe and Greg Coe, ''The Mormon Experience'' (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 1985), 188.
* J. Edward Decker, ''To Moroni With Love'', 2nd edition, (Seattle: Life Messengers, n.d.).
* Ed Decker and Dave Hunt, ''The Godmakers'' (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 1984), 82, 246.
* There is no rightful claim by historic Mormon doctrine to the name Christian, because they deny almost every one of the major fundamental doctrines of Christendom." - Norman Geisler, founder of Southern Evangelical Seminary, cited in Elise Soukup, "The Mormon Odyssey," ''Newsweek'' (17 October 2005)[http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9630255/site/newsweek/page/3/ *].
* Walter Martin, ''The Kingdom of the Cults'', revised and expanded, (Minneapolis: Bethan House, 1985), 7, 51.
* Walter Martin, ''Mormonism'' (Minneapolis, Bethany House Publishers, 1976), 3.
* Einar Molland, ''Christendom'' (New York: Philosophical Library, 1959), 355.
*Carl Mosser, "And the Saints Go Marching On," in Francis Beckwith, et al. (editors), ''The New Mormon Challenge'' (Grand Rapids, Michigan : Zondervan, 2002), 66.
* James R. Spencer, ''Beyond Mormonism: An Elder's Story'' (Grand Rapids: Chosen Books, 1984), 138.
* J.K. van Baalen, ''The Chaos of Cults, 4th edition and enlarged (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1983), 159.
* William J. Whalen, ''Separated Brethren: A Survey of non-Catholic Christian Denominations in the United States'', revised edition, (Milwaukee: Bruce, 1963), 173.

==Response==

===LDS aren't Christians?===
At its base, this claim is an excellent example of the [[Logical_fallacies#No_true_Scotsman | No true Scotsman]] fallacy.

The claimed bases for the charge that the LDS are not Christians include:
* LDS do not accept creedal [[Godhead_and_the_Trinity | Trinitarianism]] as set out by the [[Nicene Creed]]. This means that they conceive of Jesus and Satan as being spiritual '[[Jesus_Christ_is_the_brother_of_Satan | siblings]]' in terms of their ultimate origin, if not their nature or religious status.
* Because of different understandings about God, some Christian critics accuse the LDS of worshipping [[Worship_different_Jesus | a different Jesus]]
* LDS have doctrines which differ from many forms of "traditional" Christianity:
** [[Premortal existence |premortal existence]]
** [[Baptism for the dead | vicarious work for the dead]]
** eternal marriage and families
** three degrees of glory
** [[Deification of man]] {''theosis''}
* LDS use [[Open_canon_vs._closed_canon | additional scripture]] with the [[Biblical_completeness | Bible]]
* LDS do not accept ''[[Creatio_ex_nihilo | creatio ex nihilo]]''
* LDS do not accept the traditional view of ''[[Original sin | original sin]]''
* LDS heed the teachings of [[Joseph_Smith%27s_status_in_LDS_belief | Joseph Smith]] and other [[modern prophets]]
* LDS reject such doctrines as [[predestination]] to salvation or damnation

Unfortunately for the critic, all of these doctrinal differences have been held not just by the LDS, but by other Christians as well, including the early Christians of the first and second centuries.{{ref|heretics1}} These Christians:

* were not Trinitarians, since the creeds were not yet formulated
* did not teach ''creatio ex nihilo''
* did not consider "the Bible" to be the sole authoritative scripture, since it was not compiled until centuries later
* considered some writings to be authoritative which many modern Christians now reject
* taught ''theosis'', or human deification through Christ
* followed living prophets (the apostles)

One might debate whether these Christians were ''correct'' or ''complete'' in their beliefs, but can the critics seriously exclude them from the family of Christians?{{ref|peterson1}}

The critics essentially create a definition of "Christian" that includes their brand of Christianity, and excludes others with whom they disagree.

===Saints claim to be Christian only recently?===

This claim is absurd. The critics depend on their audience not knowing much about LDS history for this claim. Enemies and members of the Church have long known that Church members consider themselves "Christian" (italics added in all cases):
;1830: “They call themselves the church of Christ, and the only church of Christ. All professing Christians who do not adhere to their system, they consider as formalists; ‘having the form of Godliness, but denying the power’”.{{ref|fn1}}
;1831: “Old Joe . . . and several others . . . admitted [that the new faith] was an improvement in Christianity”.{{ref|fn2}}
;1832: The Mormonites “say the Millennium is soon to commence and that Christ is to come personally and take up His residence with them. . . . In its general principles this sect entirely coincide with others which have from time to time sprung up in Christendom”. {{ref|fn3}}
;1833: There is “a civil war between the Mormonites and their brother Christians”. {{ref|fn4}}
;1834: "Brother Joseph . . . went on to show the brethren how wicked and unchristianlike such conduct [among them] appeared before the eyes of truth and justice”.{{ref|fn5}}
;1835: “the doctrine promulgated by the ‘latter day Christians’ in the newly discovered Bible”.{{ref|fn6}}
;1836: “This morning a minister from Conne[c]ticut by the name of John W. Olived called at my house . . . . [He] asked me wherein we differ from other Christian denomination[s]”.{{ref|fn7}}
;1837: “they have the appearance of being devout Christians. . . . They call themselves ‘Latter-day Saints,’ and profess to be the only true church, to have the only gospel order, consisting of apostles, elders, bishops, etc., etc., which several orders of the Christian hierarchy have been distinctly brought to light in the Book of Mormon”.{{ref|fn8}}
;1838: "The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning ''Jesus Christ'', that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are ''only appendages to it''".{{ref|js2}}
;1839: "This sect took its rise, A. D. 1830, in the county of Ontario, and State of New York. In April of that year, the society was ''organized as a Christian Church''".{{ref|bishop1}}
;1840: “We want no religion but pure Christianity”.{{ref|fn9}}
;1841: “I understood from [the Mormons] as follows, . . . that they did not discard the Bible as used by other Christian sects”.{{ref|fn10}}
;1842: “the great Christian city of Nauvoo”.{{ref|fn11}}
;1843: "So far we are agreed with ''other Christian denominations''. They all preach faith and repentance. The gospel requires baptism by immersion for the remission of sins, which is the meaning of the word in the original language—namely, to bury or immerse".{{ref|js1}}
;1844: “The ''[Saturday] Courier'' should for the sake of truth and consistency, strike its flag of neutrality in RELIGION, while it wages a war of extermination against the Mormons; the only sect in Christendom, who in this nineteenth century can exhibit the irresistible evidence of martyrdom, in support of its cause”.{{ref|fn12}}
;1853: Now, we ARE believers in the Bible, and in consequence of our unshaken faith in its precepts, doctrine, and prophecy, may be, attributed "the strangeness of our course," and the unwarrantable conduct of many towards this people. Come, my brother Presbyterian; come, my brother professors of every persuasion of long standing and popular distinction in the world, who are dubbed with the word "ORTHODOX;" come, ''we are all good Christians''; I find no fault with you—why should you find fault with me?{{ref|by1}}
;1859: We, as Christians, are divided and subdivided into many systems varying in doctrinal points. This one says, "I am right;" and that one says, "I am right;" another rises up and varies, more or less, from the doctrines of the Church he has left, and says he is right.{{ref|fn15}}
;1863:Should you ask ''why we differ from other Christians''...Are all this people, in the Scriptural sense, Christians? They should be. Do they all serve God with an undivided heart? They should. Many of them do, seeking daily to do his will.{{ref|by2}}
;1864:The Latter-day Saints ''differ from their Christian brethren''.{{ref|by3}}
;1866:Now, ''we as Christians'' desire to be saved in the kingdom of God.{{ref|by4}}
: President B. Young preached a very interesting and instructive discourse, in which he showed that professing Christians believe all that the Jews believe, which appertains to life and salvation, and have accepted principles in advance of the Jews, including faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; and that the Latter-day Saints receive all believed in by other professing Christians, appertaining to life and salvation, accepting, as a part of their religious faith, principles in advance of them which are taught in the Scriptures. He touched upon the history of the Jewish people, showing the penalties which they had incurred by disobedience to the commandments of God, and pointing to the promises made to the patriarchal fathers concerning them. And deduced that if the condition of professing Christians is to-day better than that of the Jews, for believing more of the revelations of God, so the condition of the Saints is preferable to that of the other inhabitants of Christendom, in accepting all the revelations which the Lord has been pleased to give. {{ref|fn16}}
;1870:Have you embraced truth, Latter-day Saints? Have you anything different from ''other Christians''?{{ref|by5}}
;1871: If you should have visits here from those professing to be Christians, and they intimate a desire to preach to you, by all means invite them to do so. Accord to every reputable person who may visit you, and who may wish to occupy the stands of your meeting houses to preach to you, the privilege of doing so, no matter whether he be a Catholic, Presbyterian, Congregationalist, Baptist, Free-will Baptist, Methodist, or whatever he may be; and if he wishes to speak to your children let him do so. Of course you have the power to correct whatever false teachings or impressions, if any, your children may hear or receive. I say to parents, place your children, as far as you [p.196] have an opportunity to do so, in a position or situation to learn everything in the world that is worth learning. You will probably have what is called a Christian Church here; they will not admit that we are Christians, but they cannot think us further from the plan of salvation as revealed from heaven than we know them to be, so we are even on that ground, as far as it goes.{{ref|fn13}}
: We are preaching to the people far and near; our Elders are traveling through the earth; strangers are coming here, and we are declaring to them that the Gospel of the Son of God is true. Whether they believe or not, it is no matter. That book (the Bible)contains the words of the Almighty…. I know of the bright promises which he gave to his disciples anciently. I live in the possession of them, and glory in them and in the cross of Christ, and in the beauty and holiness that he has revealed for the salvation and exaltation of the children of men. I do wish we would live to them, and may the Lord help us. {{ref|fn14}}
;1872:''We, as Christians'', believe in God, in Christ and in his atonement, in repentance and obedience, and in receiving the Spirit.{{ref|by6}}
: "we take the liberty to believe the Bible, which our fellow Christians, generally throughout the world, profess to believe in…”{{ref|fn17}}
:: “We are looking for him [i.e. Second coming of Christ]. The Christians of all denominations expect that he will appear in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. The Latter-day Saints expect this in common with all other Christians.”{{ref|fn18}}
;1876:These are only a few reflections, when we take into consideration ''our Christian religion''.{{ref|by7}}
:Brother Cannon speaks of Christians. ''We are Christians'' professedly, according to our religion.{{ref|by8}}
:“How shall we, as Christians, reconcile these words of our Savior with the reception everywhere given by the world to Messrs. Moody and Sankey? They are, professedly, Christian ministers, yet they are largely entertained by the world, extolled by the world, and apparently loved by the world….”{{ref|car1}}
:“But Joseph Smith reiterates the Savior’s promises. He has no fear of being proved a false teacher. He professes to be a Christian minister called and sent of God….”{{ref|car2}}
:“Immediate revelation was the life of primitive Christianity, and when that ceased to be given to men, Christianity waxed feeble, waned and died. With the restored Gospel came immediate revelation, and Christianity was born again upon the earth.”{{ref|car3}}
;1881: ''We are a Christian community''; we believe in God and in Jesus Christ...{{ref|lyman1}}
;1892: "What a singular sort of ‘Christian community’ that must be that will not tolerate an unorthodox Christian society in its midst!”{{ref|fn19}}
:“The insinuation in this [written attack on the LDS by a Protestant minister in SLC] is to the effect that a ‘Mormon’ is not a Christian, and the ‘Mormon’ religion is not a Christian religion, and further that the Supreme Court of the United States has virtually so decided…. But if a ‘Mormon’ is not a Christian then there are no Christians in America…. A member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is at least as fairly entitled to the appellation of a Christian as a member of the Presbyterian Church”{{ref|fn20}}
:“[with reverence to Revelation 1. 12] We accept—as all Christians do—that God inspired the words ‘to see the voice.’”{{ref|fn21}}
;1907: If it be true Christianity to accept Jesus Christ in person and his mission as divine; to revere him as the Son of God, the crucified and risen Lord, through whom alone mankind can attain salvation; to accept his teachings as a guide, to adopt as a standard and observe as a law the ethical code he promulgated; to comply with the requirements prescribed by him as essential to membership in his Church, namely, faith, repentance, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins, and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost,—if this be Christianity, ''then are we Christians'', and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a Christian church.{{ref|1stpres1}}
;1956: We are not Catholic, Protestant, nor Jewish, and yet this disclaimer should not be taken to mean we are not Christian. You who heard the powerful address of President Clark this morning will know that ''we are Christians'', for central to everything we believe and teach is our faith that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. We are grateful for our Judeo-Christian heritage, for the Holy Bible which we accept without reservation as the word of God, except as to some errors that have crept in through translations.{{ref|brown1}}

Clearly, the Church has "claimed" to be Christian for a long time, and even hostile critics realized it. To insist that this is a new, public relations move is false.

==Conclusion==

Critics use a self-serving and self-referential definition of "Christian" to exclude the LDS. They ignore the fact that many other Christians over the millennia would have disagreed with them on the same points, yet this does not disqualify these other believers from the family of "Christians."

Claims that the Church has only recently been asserting its Christian status are false, as attested by LDS scripture, practice, doctrine, and public statements of its leadership and its early critics.

Ironically, many of those who attack the Church and its members for not being Christians show a distinct lack of the Christian virtues themselves:

:There has been no end to opposition. There are misinterpretations and misrepresentations of us and of our history, some of it mean-spirited and certainly contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ and His gospel. Sometimes clergy, even ministerial organizations, oppose us. They do what we would never do. We do not attack or criticize or oppose others as they do us...Strangest of all, otherwise intelligent people claim we are not Christian. This shows that they know little or nothing about us. It is a true principle that you cannot lift yourself by putting others down.{{ref|packer1}}

==Endnotes==
#{{note|heretics1}} For a discussion by a non-LDS, conservative evangelical on points of doctrine upon which modern evangelical Christianity differs with the doctrines taught by the early Christian Fathers, see: {{Heretics1|start=1}}
#{{note|peterson1}} For a discussion of these issues, see Daniel C. Peterson and Stephen D. Ricks, "Comparing LDS Beliefs with First-Century Christianity, (Provo, Utah: FARMS, no date). {{link|url=http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=transcripts&id=93}}
#{{note|fn1}} Rev. John Sherer to Absalom Peters, 18 November 1830, published in {{EarlyMormonDocs1| vol=4|start=93}}
#{{note|fn2}} James G. Bennett, ''Morning Courier and New York Enquirer'', 31 August 1831.
#{{note|fn3}}''The Farmer’s Herald'', vol. 4, no. 49, 6 June 1832 [Johnsbury, Vermont]
#{{note|fn4}}''Liberal Advocate'', vol. 3, no. 6, 30 December 1833 [Rochester, New York]
#{{note|fn5}}{{HoC1|vol=2|start=83}}
#{{note|fn6}} ''Painesville Telegraph'', vol. 1, no. 35, 4 September 1835 [Painesville, Ohio]
#{{note|fn7}}{{PWJS1|start=144}}
#{{note|fn8}} ''The New York Evangelist'', vol. 6, no. 15, 9 April 1836; letter written on 1 April 1836 by James H. Eells who lived in Elyra, Ohio)
#{{note|js2}} {{TPJS1|start=121}}
#{{note|bishop1}}Francis G. Bishop, ''Brief History of the Church of Jesus Christ, of Latter Day Saints'' (Blum and Son, Salem, Massachusetts 1839): 2.
#{{note|fn9}}Parley P. Pratt, ''Plain Facts'' [Manchester, England: W. R. Thomas, 1840], 6.
#{{note|fn10}} {{TS1|start=324|date=15 February 1841|vol=2}}; reprint of an article from the ''Upper Mississippian''
#{{note|fn11}} ''Chicago Democrat'', May 1842; editorial by John Wentworth
#{{note|js1}} {{TPJS1|start=314}}
#{{note|fn12}}{{TS1|vol= 5|num=15|date=15 August 1844|start=621}}
#{{note|by1}}{{JoD1_1|author=Brigham Young|title=Discourse|date=24 July 1853|start=237|end=237}}
#{{note|fn15}} {{JoD7_1|author=Brigham Young|date=22 May 1859|start=148}}; {{DN1|vol=9|date=1 June 1859|start=104}}
#{{note|by2}}{{JoD10|author=Brigham Young|title=Discourse|date=8 July 1863|start=230|end=231}}
#{{note|by3}}{{JoD10|author=Brigham Young|title=Discourse|date=31 July 1863|start=318|end=319}}
#{{note|by4}}{{JoD11_1|author=Brigham Young|title=Discourse|date=19 August 1866|start=268|end=268}}
#{{note|fn16}} {{DNW1|author=Brigham Young|vol=15|num=109}}; cited in {{BYA1|vol=5|start=32}}
#{{note|by5}}{{JoD13|author=Brigham Young|title=Discourse|date=20 February 1870|start=237|end=238}}
#{{note|fn13}} In Ogden Tabernacle {{JoD14|date=3 June 1871|author=Brigham Young|start=195|end=196}}; {{MS|vol=33|start=418|end=420|author=Brigham Young}}; DNW 20:235.
#{{note|fn14}} In Salt Lake City Tabernacle, {{JoD14|author=Brigham Young|date=27 August 1871|start=223|end=227}}; DNW 20:357.
#{{note|by6}}{{JoD15_1|author=Brigham Young|title=Discourse|date=26 May 1872|start=42|end=42}}
#{{note|fn17}} {{JoD14_1|author=John Taylor|date=3 March 1872|start=338}} {{DN1|vol=21|date= 13 March 1872|start=65b}}
#{{note|fn18}} {{JoD14_1|author=Orson Pratt|date=10 March 10 1872|start=348}}; {{DN1|vol=21|date=20 March 1872|start=77d}}
#{{note|by7}}{{JoD18_1|author=Brigham Young|title=Discourse|date=15 August 1876|start=217|end=217}}
#{{note|by8}}{{JoD18_1|author=Brigham Young|title=Discourse|date=17 September 1876|start=231|end=231}}
#{{note|car1}}{{MS1|vol=38|date=6 March 1876|start=152}}
#{{note|car2}}{{MS|vol=38|date=27 March 1876|start=200|end=201}}
#{{note|car3}}{{MS1|vol=38|date=3 April 1876|start=217}}
#{{note|fn19}} {{DNW1|author= Editorial on citizens of Beaver Dam, Virginia removing Mormon Elders by force to another part of the state|vol=45|date=17 September 1892|start=396}}
#{{note|fn20}} {{DNW1|author=?|vol=45|date=24 September 1892|start=441}}
#{{note|fn21}} {{DNW1|author=?|vol=?|date=10 December 1892|start=780}}
#{{note|lyman1}}Francis M. Lyman, General Conference, 5 April 5 1881, in ''Millennial Star'' 43:19 (9 May 1881): 292.
#{{note|1stpres1}}{{IE|author=First Presidency|article=Address to the World|vol=10|date=May 1907|start=481|end=495}}
#{{note|brown1}}{{IE|author=Hugh B. Brown|article=Discourse|vol=10|date=December 1956|start=949|end=949}}
#{{note|packer1}} Boyd K. Packer, A Defense and a Refuge," Sunday Afternoon Session, October 2006 Conference. {{link|url=http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,49-1-646-31,00.html}}

==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===
{{FallacyBegin}}
* [[Logical_fallacies#Ad_hominem | Ad hominem]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#Appeal_to_authority | Appeal to authority]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#Appeal_to_belief | Appeal to belief]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#Appeal_to_the_majority | Appeal to the majority]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#Appeal_to_tradition | Appeal to tradition]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#Argument_from_repetition | Argument from repetition]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#Argumentum_ad_numerum | Argument ad numerum]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#Bandwagon_fallacy | Bandwagon fallacy]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#Begging_the_question | Begging the question]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#False_analogy | False analogy]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#False_premise | False premise]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#Ideology_over_reality | Ideology over reality]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#No_true_Scotsman | No true Scotsman]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#Poisoning_the_well | Poisoning the well]]
* [[Logical_fallacies#Straw_man | Straw man]]
{{FallacyEnd}}
{{DefinitionFallaciesWiki}}
{{TheosisWiki}}
{{InterfaithWiki}}
===FAIR web site===
{{JesusFAIR}}
{{TheosisFAIR}}
===External links===
*Davis Bitton, "A Voice from Christmas Past," ''Meridian Magazine'' (''ldsmag.com''), 5 December 2006. {{link|url=http://www.ldsmag.com/historybits/061205christmas.html}}
*{{FR-14-1-8}}
*{{FR-14-1-9}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}{{NB}}
*Daniel C. Peterson and Stephen D. Ricks, "Comparing LDS Beliefs with First-Century Christianity, (Provo, Utah: FARMS, no date). {{link|url=http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=transcripts&id=93}}
*{{aremormonschristians0}}
*{{Ensign1|author=Robert E. Wells|article=We Are Christians Because...|date=January 1984|start=17}}{{link|url=http://library.lds.org/library/lpext.dll/ArchMagazines/Ensign/1984.htm/ensign%20january%201984.htm/we%20are%20christians%20because%20.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0}}
{{TheosisLinks}}

===Printed material===

* {{CR|author=Hugh B. Brown|article=’Are the Latter-day Saints… Christians?’|date=8 April 1962}}; see also {{IE|author=Hugh B. Brown|vol=65|num=6|date=June 1962|start=408|end=411}}
* Hugh B. Brown, "Are Mormons Christians?," in ''The Abundant Life'' (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965), 23–34 (Address given at Monks Park, England, 26 October 1962).
*{{Viper1|start=1}}
* {{IE1|author=President Anthony W. Ivins|article=What is a Christian? Why the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a Christian church|vol=29|num=8|date=June 1926}}
*{{Offenders1|start=1}}{{NB}}
{{TheosisPrint}}

Mormonism and church integrity/Accusations of hypocrisy in Church practices

2007-01-19T04:16:28Z

StevenDanderson: /* Response */

==Criticism==

Critics claim that the Church, as a corporate entity, controls business properties that are not consistent with its stated purposes. Examples include:
* claims that the Church owns controlling stock in the Coca-Cola company
* claims that the Church owns stock in tobacco companies
* claims that the Church owns stock in alcohol companies

==Response==

The Church has what is called the "donations in kind" office that manages issues related to real estate, stocks and bonds, and other "non-cash" contributions. Interested parties can call Church headquarters and ask to be connected to this department, which will provides frank information about the Church's policy in this area.

It is the Church's practice to automatically liquidate all stocks/bonds provided to the donations in kind office as soon as they can be sold. Any stock donations made to the Church are never held by the Church or its corporations, but are converted into cash and then used for Church purposes.

The church receives a lot of these types of donations because of the favorable tax treatment the donor receives. In the United States, the IRS code allows for an individual who has a long term potential capital gain in a stock (i.e., they have owned it for more than 1 year) to donate the stock to a non-profit organization and receive a tax deductible donation credit against their taxes based on the full value of the holding ''without'' having to also recognize the gain and be taxed on the gain.

For example, if you bought stock for $10 and donate when it is worth $110, you get to remove $110 from your taxable earnings (which at the 33% tax bracket benefits you with not paying $36 in taxes). If you had sold the stock and donated the money, you would have had to realize a gain of $100 and had to pay taxes on that ($33), and then you would get the credit for the donation which would offset the gain.

As can be seen, when one can donate without selling, one essentially gets the best of both worlds, and it can result in substantial tax savings, with no loss to the charity to which one is donating. For this reason, estates that make sizeable donations to the Church usually do so with long term capital holdings, like stock, in order to realize the greatest tax benefits. This means that such donations are a very common event in Church finances.

Because the Church can neither control which stocks are donated, nor which stocks are in mutual fund shares that are donated, there have doubtless been times when interest in companies whose products are not in keeping with Church standards have been donated. Furthermore, stock index funds contain investments in all the stocks in that index (such as the Dow Jones Industrials, the S&P 500, and the Willshire 5000). Usually, this includes companies in industries inconsistent with the Church position.

The financial data for every publicly-traded corporation (i.e., a corporation with stock for sale at a stock exchange) is held in the Edgar data base of the Securities and Exchange Commission. This data is publically available on-line, at such sites as:
* [http://www.sec.gov http://www.sec.gov]
* [http://www.freeedgar.com http://www.freeedgar.com]
* [http://finance.yahoo.com http://finance.yahoo.com]

This data includes a list of "significant shareholders," which are typically those who own >5% of the total stock price. Any critic who claims the Church has on-going interest in a company should prove the claim by providing data showing that the Church indeed holds significant interest.

There have thus been instances in the past where reportable donations were made (>5%), and when the church received and then liquidated the holdings as a matter of public record. Yet, this does not mean that the Church purchased stock in these companies, or had continued to profit from stock held in such companies. The Church merely received a donation, which it liquidated in accordance with its standard financial practices.

==Conclusion==
It may be technically true that for a few minutes, hours, or days, the Church has been at least part owner of some companies whose products or behavior does not match the Church's interests or standards. However, such claims as used by critics are designed mislead, since the Church did not seek interest in any such company, and sells its interest as soon as it acquires it.

The Church does not refuse to accept any lawfully traded security based on the products they sell, because all such donations are treated equally—they are sold.

==Endnotes==

''None''

==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===
{{LyingWiki}}
{{WoWWiki}}

===FAIR web site===
{{WoWFAIR}}

===External links===
* "Does the Mormon Church Own the Coca-Cola Company?" ''Snopes.com'' {{link|url=http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/mormon.asp}}
* N. Eldon Tanner, “Q&A: Questions and Answers,” New Era, July 1975, 50{{link|url=http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/NewEra/1975.htm/new%20era%20july%201975.htm/qampa%20questions%20and%20answers.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0#LPTOC4}}
{{WoWLinks}}

===Printed material===
{{WoWPrint}}

Mormonism and church integrity/Accusations of hypocrisy in Church practices

2007-01-19T04:11:07Z

StevenDanderson: /* External links */

==Criticism==

Critics claim that the Church, as a corporate entity, controls business properties that are not consistent with its stated purposes. Examples include:
* claims that the Church owns controlling stock in the Coca-Cola company
* claims that the Church owns stock in tobacco companies
* claims that the Church owns stock in alcohol companies

==Response==

The Church has what is called the "donations in kind" office that manages issues related to real estate, stocks and bonds, and other "non-cash" contributions. Interested parties can call Church headquarters and ask to be connected to this department, which will provides frank information about the Church's policy in this area.

It is the Church's practice to automatically liquidate all stocks/bonds provided to the donations in kind office as soon as they can be sold. Any stock donations made to the Church are never held by the Church or its corporations, but are converted into cash and then used for Church purposes.

The church receives a lot of these types of donations because of the favorable tax treatment the donor receives. In the United States, the IRS code allows for an individual who has a long term potential capital gain in a stock (i.e., they have owned it for more than 1 year) to donate the stock to a non-profit organization and receive a tax deductible donation credit against their taxes based on the full value of the holding ''without'' having to also recognize the gain and be taxed on the gain.

For example, if you bought stock for $10 and donate when it is worth $110, you get to remove $110 from your taxable earnings (which at 33% tax bracket benefits you with not paying $36 in taxes). If you had sold the stock and donated the money, you would have had to realize a gain of $100 and had to pay taxes on that ($33), and then you would get the credit for the donation which would offset the gain.

As can be seen, when one can donate without selling, one essentially gets the best of both worlds, and it can result in substantial tax savings, with no loss to the charity to which one is donating. For this reason, estates that make sizeable donations to the Church usually do so with long term capital holdings, like stock, in order to realize the greatest tax benefits. This means that such donations are a very common event in Church finances.

Because the Church can neither control which stocks are donated, nor which stocks are in mutual fund shares that are donated, there have doubtless been times when interest in companies whose products are not in keeping with Church standards have been donated. Furthermore, stock index funds contain investments in all the stocks in that index (such as the Dow Jones Industrials, the S&P 500, and the Willshire 5000). Usually, this includes companies in industries inconsistent with the Church position.

The financial data for every publicly-traded corporation (i.e., a corporation with stock for sale at a stock exchange) is held in the Edgar data base of the Securities and Exchange Commission. This data is publically available on-line, at such sites as:
* [http://www.sec.gov http://www.sec.gov]
* [http://www.freeedgar.com http://www.freeedgar.com]
* [http://finance.yahoo.com http://finance.yahoo.com]

This data includes a list of "significant shareholders," which are typically those who own >5% of the total stock price. Any critic who claims the Church has on-going interest in a company should prove the claim by providing data showing that the Church holds significant interest.

There have thus been instances in the past where reportable donations were made (>5%), and when the church received and then liquidated the holdings as a matter of public record. Yet, this does not mean that the Church purchased stock in these companies, or continued to profit from stock held in such companies—the Church merely received a donation, which it liquidated in accordance with its standard financial practices.

==Conclusion==
It may be technically true that for a few minutes, hours, or days, the Church has been at least part owner of some companies whose products or behavior does not match the Church's interests or standards. However, such claims as used by critics are designed mislead, since the Church did not seek interest in any such company, and sells its interest as soon as it acquires it.

The Church does not refuse to accept any lawfully traded security based on the products they sell, because all such donations are treated equally—they are sold.

==Endnotes==

''None''

==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===
{{LyingWiki}}
{{WoWWiki}}

===FAIR web site===
{{WoWFAIR}}

===External links===
* "Does the Mormon Church Own the Coca-Cola Company?" ''Snopes.com'' {{link|url=http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/mormon.asp}}
* N. Eldon Tanner, “Q&A: Questions and Answers,” New Era, July 1975, 50{{link|url=http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/NewEra/1975.htm/new%20era%20july%201975.htm/qampa%20questions%20and%20answers.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0#LPTOC4}}
{{WoWLinks}}

===Printed material===
{{WoWPrint}}

Mormonism and church integrity/Accusations of hypocrisy in Church practices

2007-01-19T04:10:19Z

StevenDanderson: /* External links */

==Criticism==

Critics claim that the Church, as a corporate entity, controls business properties that are not consistent with its stated purposes. Examples include:
* claims that the Church owns controlling stock in the Coca-Cola company
* claims that the Church owns stock in tobacco companies
* claims that the Church owns stock in alcohol companies

==Response==

The Church has what is called the "donations in kind" office that manages issues related to real estate, stocks and bonds, and other "non-cash" contributions. Interested parties can call Church headquarters and ask to be connected to this department, which will provides frank information about the Church's policy in this area.

It is the Church's practice to automatically liquidate all stocks/bonds provided to the donations in kind office as soon as they can be sold. Any stock donations made to the Church are never held by the Church or its corporations, but are converted into cash and then used for Church purposes.

The church receives a lot of these types of donations because of the favorable tax treatment the donor receives. In the United States, the IRS code allows for an individual who has a long term potential capital gain in a stock (i.e., they have owned it for more than 1 year) to donate the stock to a non-profit organization and receive a tax deductible donation credit against their taxes based on the full value of the holding ''without'' having to also recognize the gain and be taxed on the gain.

For example, if you bought stock for $10 and donate when it is worth $110, you get to remove $110 from your taxable earnings (which at 33% tax bracket benefits you with not paying $36 in taxes). If you had sold the stock and donated the money, you would have had to realize a gain of $100 and had to pay taxes on that ($33), and then you would get the credit for the donation which would offset the gain.

As can be seen, when one can donate without selling, one essentially gets the best of both worlds, and it can result in substantial tax savings, with no loss to the charity to which one is donating. For this reason, estates that make sizeable donations to the Church usually do so with long term capital holdings, like stock, in order to realize the greatest tax benefits. This means that such donations are a very common event in Church finances.

Because the Church can neither control which stocks are donated, nor which stocks are in mutual fund shares that are donated, there have doubtless been times when interest in companies whose products are not in keeping with Church standards have been donated. Furthermore, stock index funds contain investments in all the stocks in that index (such as the Dow Jones Industrials, the S&P 500, and the Willshire 5000). Usually, this includes companies in industries inconsistent with the Church position.

The financial data for every publicly-traded corporation (i.e., a corporation with stock for sale at a stock exchange) is held in the Edgar data base of the Securities and Exchange Commission. This data is publically available on-line, at such sites as:
* [http://www.sec.gov http://www.sec.gov]
* [http://www.freeedgar.com http://www.freeedgar.com]
* [http://finance.yahoo.com http://finance.yahoo.com]

This data includes a list of "significant shareholders," which are typically those who own >5% of the total stock price. Any critic who claims the Church has on-going interest in a company should prove the claim by providing data showing that the Church holds significant interest.

There have thus been instances in the past where reportable donations were made (>5%), and when the church received and then liquidated the holdings as a matter of public record. Yet, this does not mean that the Church purchased stock in these companies, or continued to profit from stock held in such companies—the Church merely received a donation, which it liquidated in accordance with its standard financial practices.

==Conclusion==
It may be technically true that for a few minutes, hours, or days, the Church has been at least part owner of some companies whose products or behavior does not match the Church's interests or standards. However, such claims as used by critics are designed mislead, since the Church did not seek interest in any such company, and sells its interest as soon as it acquires it.

The Church does not refuse to accept any lawfully traded security based on the products they sell, because all such donations are treated equally—they are sold.

==Endnotes==

''None''

==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===
{{LyingWiki}}
{{WoWWiki}}

===FAIR web site===
{{WoWFAIR}}

===External links===
* "Does the Mormon Church Own the Coca-Cola Company?" ''Snopes.com'' {{link|url=http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/mormon.asp}}
* N. Eldon Tanner, “Q&A: Questions and Answers,” New Era, July 1975, 50
{{link|url=http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/NewEra/1975.htm/new%20era%20july%201975.htm/qampa%20questions%20and%20answers.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0#LPTOC4}}
{{WoWLinks}}

===Printed material===
{{WoWPrint}}