FAIR - User contributions [en]

Hebrew and Native American languages

2007-09-16T23:39:21Z

MikeAsh:

{{draft}}

{{nw}}

Recent scholarly research suggests a possible link between Uto-Aztecan (a family of about 30 Native American languages) and Hebrew. For example, Dr. Brian Stubbs argues for numerous parallels between Hebrew and Uto-Aztecan. As a professional linguist, Dr. Stubbs avoids the pitfalls of amateurs who simply point at similar words between two different languages. As he points out,

Any two languages can have a few similar words by pure chance. What is called the comparative method is the linguist's tool for eliminating chance similarities and determining with confidence whether two languages are historically—that is, genetically—related. This method consists of testing for three criteria. First, consistent sound correspondences must be established, for linguists have found that sounds change in consistent patterns in related languages; for example, German tag and English day are cognates (related words), as well as German tür and English door. So one rule about sound change in this case is that German initial t corresponds to English initial d.1 Some general rules of sound change that occur in family after family help the linguist feel more confident about reconstructing original forms from the descendant words or cognates, although a certain amount of guesswork is always involved.

Second, related languages show parallels in specific structures of grammar and morphology, that is, in rules that govern sentence and word formation.2 Third, a sizable lexicon (vocabulary list) should demonstrate these sound correspondences and grammatical parallels.

When consistent parallels of these sorts are extensively demonstrated, we can be confident that there was a sister-sister connection between the two tongues at some earlier time.
(http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?filename=MTI1NDYxODU3MC05LTIucGRm&type=amJtcw==)

A few of Stubbs' many examples are:

{| valign="top" border="1" style="width:100%"
!Hebrew/Semitic!!Uto-Aztecan
|-
| style="width:50%" valign="top"| kilyah/kolyah 'kidney' ||kali 'kidney'
|-
|baraq 'lightning' ||berok (derived from *pïrok) 'lightning'
|-
|sekem/sikm- 'shoulder'||sikum/sïka 'shoulder'
|-
|mayim/meem 'water' ||meme-t 'ocean'
|-
|}

Rhodes Scholar Dr. Roger Westcott, non-LDS Professor Emeritus of Anthropology and Linguistics at Drew University, has made positive comments about Dr. Stubbs' research:

Perhaps the most surprising of all Eurasian-American linguistic connections, at least in geographic terms, is that proposed by Brian Stubbs: a strong link between the Uto-Aztecan and Afro-Asiatic (or Hamito-Semitic) languages. The Uto-Aztecan languages are, or have been, spoken in western North America from Idaho to El Salvador. One would expect that, if Semites or their linguistic kinsmen from northern Africa were to reach the New World by water, their route would be trans-Altantic. Indeed, what graphonomic evidence there is indicates exactly that: Canaanite inscriptions are found in Georgia and Tennessee as well as in Brazil; and Mediterranean coins, some Hebrew and Moroccan Arabic, are found in Kentucky as well as Venezuela [citing Cyrus Gordon].

But we must follow the evidence wherever it leads. And lexically, at least, it points to the Pacific rather than the Atlantic coast. Stubbs finds Semitic and (more rarely) Egyptian vocabulary in about 20 of 25 extant Uto-Aztecan languages. Of the word-bases in these vernaculars, he finds about 40 percent to be derivable from nearly 500 triliteral Semitic stems. Despite this striking proportion, however, he does not regard Uto-Aztecan as a branch of Semitic or Afro-Asiatic. Indeed, he treats Uto-Aztecan Semitisms as borrowings. But, because these borrowings are at once so numerous and so well "nativized," he prefers to regard them as an example of linguistic creolization - that is, of massive lexical adaptation of one language group to another. (By way of analogy, . . . historical linguists regard the heavy importation of French vocabulary into Middle English as a process of creolization.)....

Lest sceptics should attribute these correspondences to coincidence, however, Stubbs takes care to note that there are systematic sound-shifts, analogous to those covered in Indo-European by Grimm's Law, which recur consistently in loans from Afro-Asiatic to Uto-Aztecan. One of these is the unvoicing of voiced stops in the more southerly receiving languages. Another is the velarization of voiced labial stops and glides in the same languages.
(http://www.jefflindsay.com/bme8.shtml)

While the conclusions remain tentative, some of the details of this on-going research look promising.

Another approach to the problem, however, is that we may never find traces of Hebrew language among American languages for the simple fact that the Lehite’s mother tongue all-but-disappeared shortly after their arrival in the New World. When Moroni writes about reformed Egyptian, he also explains that the “Hebrew hath been altered by us also” (Mormon 9: 33).
Like other ancient civilizations (such as Egypt) most New World inhabitants would not have been literate. While ancient Americans had a sophisticated writing system, it’s likely that knowledge of this system was limited to the civic officials or the priestly class. In the Book of Mormon we infer that training and devotion were necessary to competently master their difficult writing system. King Benjamin, for example, “caused that [his princely sons] should be taught all the languages of his fathers, that thereby they might become men of understanding” (Mosiah 1:3). Moroni, who had mastered the art himself, lamented that the Lord had not made the Nephites “mighty in writing” (Ether 12:23).
The most likely scenario is that the Lehites—who were a small incursion into a larger existing native populace—embraced the habits, culture, and language of their neighbors within a very short period after their arrival in the New World. This is what we generally find when a small group melds with a larger group. The smaller group usually takes on the traits of the larger (or, at least, the more powerful) group—not the other way around. It is not unusual, however, for at least some of the characteristics of the smaller group to show up in the larger group’s culture. Typically, however, the smaller group becomes part of the larger group with which they merge. Thus, the Lehites would have become Mesoamericans. We see, therefore, the necessity to teach the Old World language to a few elite in order to preserve, not only the traditions, but also to maintain a continuation of scribes who could read the writings of past generations.
Even with such instruction, however, the script was most likely an altered form of Egyptian—perhaps adapted to Mesoamerican scripts—and altered according to their language. This suggests that ideas and motifs that originated in the Old World were adapted to a script that could be conveyed with New World motifs, or at least New World glyphs. Under such conditions, would there be any reason to expect that we’d find “Hebrew” among the Native Americans?

Hebrew and Native American languages

2007-09-16T14:47:55Z

MikeAsh:

Recent scholarly research suggests a possible link between Uto-Aztecan (a family of about 30 Native American Language) and Hebrew. For example, Dr. Brian Stubbs argues for numerous parallels between Hebrew and Uto-Aztecan. As a professional linguist, Dr. Stubbs avoids the pitfalls of amateurs who simply point at similar words between two different languages. As he points out,

Any two languages can have a few similar words by pure chance. What is called the comparative method is the linguist's tool for eliminating chance similarities and determining with confidence whether two languages are historically—that is, genetically—related. This method consists of testing for three criteria. First, consistent sound correspondences must be established, for linguists have found that sounds change in consistent patterns in related languages; for example, German tag and English day are cognates (related words), as well as German tür and English door. So one rule about sound change in this case is that German initial t corresponds to English initial d.1 Some general rules of sound change that occur in family after family help the linguist feel more confident about reconstructing original forms from the descendant words or cognates, although a certain amount of guesswork is always involved.

Second, related languages show parallels in specific structures of grammar and morphology, that is, in rules that govern sentence and word formation.2 Third, a sizable lexicon (vocabulary list) should demonstrate these sound correspondences and grammatical parallels.

When consistent parallels of these sorts are extensively demonstrated, we can be confident that there was a sister-sister connection between the two tongues at some earlier time.
(http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?filename=MTI1NDYxODU3MC05LTIucGRm&type=amJtcw==)

A few of Stubbs many examples are:

Hebrew/Semitic
UA

baraq 'lightning'
berok (derived from *pïrok) 'lightning'

sekem/sikm- 'shoulder'
*sikum/sïka 'shoulder'

kilyah/kolyah 'kidney'
*kali 'kidney'

mayim/meem 'water'
meme-t 'ocean'

Fhodes Scholar Dr. Roger Westcott, non-LDS Professor Emeritus of Anthropology and Linguistics at Drew University, has made positive comments about Dr. Stubbs' research:

Perhaps the most surprising of all Eurasian-American linguistic connections, at least in geographic terms, is that proposed by Brian Stubbs: a strong link between the Uto-Aztecan and Afro-Asiatic (or Hamito-Semitic) languages. The Uto-Aztecan languages are, or have been, spoken in western North America from Idaho to El Salvador. One would expect that, if Semites or their linguistic kinsmen from northern Africa were to reach the New World by water, their route would be trans-Altantic. Indeed, what graphonomic evidence there is indicates exactly that: Canaanite inscriptions are found in Georgia and Tennessee as well as in Brazil; and Mediterranean coins, some Hebrew and Moroccan Arabic, are found in Kentucky as well as Venezuela [citing Cyrus Gordon].

But we must follow the evidence wherever it leads. And lexically, at least, it points to the Pacific rather than the Atlantic coast. Stubbs finds Semitic and (more rarely) Egyptian vocabulary in about 20 of 25 extant Uto-Aztecan languages. Of the word-bases in these vernaculars, he finds about 40 percent to be derivable from nearly 500 triliteral Semitic stems. Despite this striking proportion, however, he does not regard Uto-Aztecan as a branch of Semitic or Afro-Asiatic. Indeed, he treats Uto-Aztecan Semitisms as borrowings. But, because these borrowings are at once so numerous and so well "nativized," he prefers to regard them as an example of linguistic creolization - that is, of massive lexical adaptation of one language group to another. (By way of analogy, . . . historical linguists regard the heavy importation of French vocabulary into Middle English as a process of creolization.)....

Lest sceptics should attribute these correspondences to coincidence, however, Stubbs takes care to note that there are systematic sound-shifts, analogous to those covered in Indo-European by Grimm's Law, which recur consistently in loans from Afro-Asiatic to Uto-Aztecan. One of these is the unvoicing of voiced stops in the more southerly receiving languages. Another is the velarization of voiced labial stops and glides in the same languages.
(http://www.jefflindsay.com/bme8.shtml)

While the conclusions remain tentative, some of the details of this on-going research look promising.

Another approach to the problem, however, is that we may never find traces of Hebrew language among American languages for the simple fact that the Lehite’s mother tongue all-but-disappeared shortly after their arrival in the New World. When Moroni writes about reformed Egyptian, he also explains that the “Hebrew hath been altered by us also” (Mormon 9: 33).
Like other ancient civilizations (such as Egypt) most New World inhabitants would not have been literate. While ancient Americans had a sophisticated writing system, it’s likely that knowledge of this system was limited to the civic officials or the priestly class. In the Book of Mormon we infer that training and devotion were necessary to competently master their difficult writing system. King Benjamin, for example, “caused that [his princely sons] should be taught all the languages of his fathers, that thereby they might become men of understanding” (Mosiah 1:3). Moroni, who had mastered the art himself, lamented that the Lord had not made the Nephites “mighty in writing” (Ether 12:23).
The most likely scenario is that the Lehites—who were a small incursion into a larger existing native populace—embraced the habits, culture, and language of their neighbors within a very short period after their arrival in the New World. This is what we generally find when a small group melds with a larger group. The smaller group usually takes on the traits of the larger (or, at least, the more powerful) group—not the other way around. It is not unusual, however, for at least some of the characteristics of the smaller group to show up in the larger group’s culture. Typically, however, the smaller group becomes part of the larger group with which they merge. Thus, the Lehites would have become Mesoamericans. We see, therefore, the necessity to teach the Old World language to a few elite in order to preserve, not only the traditions, but also to maintain a continuation of scribes who could read the writings of past generations.
Even with such instruction, however, the script was most likely an altered form of Egyptian—perhaps adapted to Mesoamerican scripts—and altered according to their language. This suggests that ideas and motifs that originated in the Old World were adapted to a script that could be conveyed with New World motifs, or at least New World glyphs. Under such conditions, would there be any reason to expect that we’d find “Hebrew” among the Native Americans?

Book of Mormon/Geography/Statements/Nineteenth century/Joseph Smith's lifetime 1829-1840/Joseph Smith/Zelph

2007-09-13T00:19:17Z

MikeAsh: /* External links */

{{GeographyPortal}}
{{question}}
==Question==

Joseph Smith reportedly found the bones of an individual named "Zelph," during the Zion's camp march. Does this have implications for [[Book of Mormon geography]]?

==Answer==

The most common version of this story is found in the ''History of the Church''.{{ref|hc1}} It should be noted, however, that the ''History of the Church'' version was created by amalgamating the journal entries of several people:

* Wilford Woodruff (WW),
* Heber C. Kimball (HCK),
* George A. Smith (GAS),
* Levi Hancock (LH),
* Moses Martin (MM),
* Reuben McBride (RM).{{ref|godfrey1}}

The accounts were published ''after'' the death of Joseph Smith, and the text has a convoluted history:

:In 1842 Willard Richards, then church historian, was assigned the task of compiling a large number of documents and producing a history of the church from them. He worked on this material between 21 December 1842 and 27 March 1843. Richards, who had not joined the church until 1836, relied on the writings or recollections of Heber C. Kimball, Wilford Woodruff, and perhaps others for his information regarding the discovery of Zelph. Blending the sources available to him, and perhaps using oral accounts from some of the members of Zion's Camp, but writing as if he were Joseph Smith, historian Richards drafted the story of Zelph as it appears in the "Manuscript History of the Church, Book A-1." With respect to points relative to Book of Mormon geography, Richards wrote that "Zelph was a white Lamanite, a man of God who was a warrior and chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus who was known from the [hill Cumorah is crossed out in the manuscript] eastern Sea, to the Rocky Mountains. He was killed in battle, by the arrow found among his ribs, during a [last crossed out] great struggle with the Lamanites" [and Nephites crossed out].

:Following the death of Joseph Smith, the ''Times and Seasons'' published serially the "History of Joseph Smith." When the story of finding Zelph appeared in the 1 January 1846 issue, most of the words crossed out in the Richards manuscript were, for some unknown reason, included, along with the point that the prophet's name was Omandagus. The reference to the hill Cumorah from the unemended Wilford Woodruff journal was still included in the narrative, as was the phrase "during the last great struggle of the Lamanites and Nephites."

:The 1904 first edition of the seven-volume History of the Church, edited by B. H. Roberts, repeats the manuscript version of Richards's account. However, in 1948, after Joseph Fielding Smith had become church historian, explicit references to the hill Cumorah and the Nephites were reintroduced. That phrasing has continued to the present in all reprintings.{{ref|godfreyjbms1}}

A comparison of the various accounts is instructive:{{ref|cannon1}}

{| valign="top" border="1"
!Aspect!!WW!!HCK!!GAS!!LH!!MM!!RM
|-
| valign="top"|Date|| May-June 1834 ||JS on 3 June 1834||Group on 2 June 1834||--||--||JS on 3 June 1834
|-
| valign="top"|Place|| Illinois River||Illinois River||--||Illinois River||Pike County||--
|-
| valign="top"|Description||-300 ft above river<br>-Flung up by ancients ||-Several 100 feet above<br>-3 altars on mound||300 ft above river||Big mound||-many mounds<br>-fortifications||--
|-
| valign="top"|Artifacts||Body, arrow ||Human bones, a skeleton, arrow||Human bones||Human bones, arrow||Human bones, arrow||Skeleton of man, arrow
|-
| valign="top"|Person?|| Zalph, large thick-set man,<br> warrior, killed in battle ||Zalph, warrior, killed in battle||--||Zalph, warrior, white Lamanite||Mighty prophet, killed in battle||Zalph, warrior, white Lamanite,<br>man of God, killed in battle
|-
| valign="top"|Nephite/<br>Lamanite?|| Nephite and Lamanite ||Lamanite||--||Lamanite||--||Lamanite
|-
| valign="top"|JS Vision?|| Vision: Onandangus, great prophet<br>Known Atlantic to Rockies ||--||--||Onandangus||--||Onandangus, <br>Known Atlantic to Rockies
|-
|}

William Hamblin described some of the difficulties in identifying the roots of this story:

:many significant qualifiers were left out of the printed version [of this account]. Thus, whereas Wilford Woodruff's journal account mentions that the ruins and bones were "probably [related to] the Nephites and Lamanites," the printed version left out the "probably," and implied that it was a certainty. [There are] several similar shifts in meaning from the original manuscripts to the printed version. "The mere 'arrow' of the three earliest accounts became an 'Indian Arrow' (as in Kimball), and finally a 'Lamanitish Arrow.' The phrase 'known from the Atlantic to the Rocky Mountain,' as in the McBride diary, became 'known from the Hill Cumorah' (stricken out) or 'eastern sea to the Rocky Mountains.' " The point here is that there are many difficulties that make it nearly impossible for us to know exactly what Joseph Smith said in 1834 as he reflected on the ruins his group encountered in Illinois.{{ref|hamblin1}}

==Conclusion==

LDS scholars have differed about the reliability of the accounts, and their relevance for Book of Mormon geography.{{ref|procon1}} As Kenneth Godfrey observed:

:If the history of the church were to be revised today using modern historical standards, readers would be informed that Joseph Smith wrote nothing about the discovery of Zelph, and that the account of uncovering the skeleton in Pike County is based on the diaries of seven members of Zion's Camp, some of which were written long after the event took place. We would be assured that the members of Zion's Camp dug up a skeleton near the Illinois River in early June 1834. Equally sure is that Joseph Smith made statements about the deceased person and his historical setting. We would learn that it is unclear which statements attributed to him derived from his vision, as opposed to being implied or surmised either by him or by others. Nothing in the diaries suggests that the mound itself was discovered by revelation.

:Furthermore, readers would be told that most sources agree that Zelph was a white Lamanite who fought under a leader named Onandagus (variously spelled). Beyond that, what Joseph said to his men is not entirely clear, judging by the variations in the available sources. The date of the man Zelph, too, remains unclear. Expressions such as "great struggles among the Lamanites," if accurately reported, could refer to a period long after the close of the Book of Mormon narrative, as well as to the fourth century AD. None of the sources before the Willard Richards composition, however, actually say that Zelph died in battle with the Nephites, only that he died "in battle" when the otherwise unidentified people of Onandagus were engaged in great wars "among the Lamanites."

:Zelph was identified as a "Lamanite," a label agreed on by all the accounts. This term might refer to the ethnic and cultural category spoken of in the Book of Mormon as actors in the destruction of the Nephites, or it might refer more generally to a descendant of the earlier Lamanites and could have been considered in 1834 as the equivalent of "Indian" (see, for example, D&C 3:18, 20; 10:48; 28:8; 32:2). Nothing in the accounts can settle the question of Zelph's specific ethnic identity.{{ref|godfreyjbms2}}

Thus, it is unclear exactly what Joseph said. Many of the accounts date from many years after the event, and may have been shaded by later ideas in the writers. Joseph never had a chance to correct that which was published about the event, since he was killed before it was made public. The "Lamanites" may refer to native Amerindians generally, or Book of Mormon peoples specifically. If the latter are referred to, the events may well apply to post-Book of Mormon events, in which case it can tell us little about the geographic scope of the Book of Mormon text.

As always, the Book of Mormon text itself must remain our primary guide for what it says. If we wish to test Joseph's claim that it was an ancient record, then others' opinions about its contents—even Joseph Smith's—are of limited value.

==Endnotes==
#{{note|hc1}} {{HoC|vol=2|start=79|end=80}}{{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?book_doc_id=201635}}
#{{note|godfrey1}}{{BYUS|author=Kenneth W. Godfrey|article=The Zelph Story|vol=29|num=2|date=1989|start=31|end=56}}{{link|url=http://byustudies.byu.edu/Products/MoreInfoPage/MoreInfo.aspx?Type=7&ProdID=576}} {{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?doc_id=282887}}
#{{note|godfreyjbms1}} {{JBMS-8-2-9}} 
#{{note|cannon1}} Data as summarized by {{RegionalStudiesIllinois|author=Donald Q. Cannon|article=Zelph Revisited|start=57|end=109}} {{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?book_doc_id=273574}} Note that some things that seem similar (e.g., "arrow" had substantial differences in the account, as discussed by Hamblin, below).
#{{note|hamblin1}} {{JBMS-2-1-11}}
#{{note|procon1}} Kenneth Godfrey's articles have cast doubt on the reliability of many key elements of the story as we have them. Donald Q. Cannon has argued for the basic reliability of the accounts. See the articles by each author for both perspectives.
#{{note|godfreyjbms2}}{{JBMS-8-2-9}} 

==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===
{{BoMGeographyWiki}}

===FAIR web site===
*{{tg|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai266.html|topic=Zelph}}

===External links===
* Michael R. Ash, "Zelph, the 'White'Lamanite, and Book of Mormon Geography," ''mormonfortress.com'' {{link|url=http://www.mormonfortress.com/zelph.htm}}
*{{JBMS-8-2-9}} 
*{{BYUS|author=Kenneth W. Godfrey|article=The Zelph Story|vol=29|num=2|date=1989|start=31|end=56}}{{link|url=http://byustudies.byu.edu/Products/MoreInfoPage/MoreInfo.aspx?Type=7&ProdID=576}} {{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?doc_id=282887}}
* {{HoC|vol=2|start=79|end=80}}{{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?book_doc_id=201635}}

===Printed material===
*{{RegionalStudiesIllinois|author=Donald Q. Cannon|article=Zelph Revisited|start=57|end=109}} {{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?book_doc_id=273574}}

Book of Mormon/Warfare/Weapons/Swords

2007-04-06T13:17:54Z

MikeAsh: /* Did metal swords persist? */

==Criticism==

Critics claim that Book of Mormon swords are anachronistic. They claim that no New World swords answering to the Book of Mormon's description have been found, and argue that this counts against the Book of Mormon's historicity.

===Source(s) of criticism===
* Deanne G. Matheny, "Does the Shoe Fit? A Critique of the Limited Tehuantepec Geography," in ''New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology'', ed. Brent Lee Metcalfe (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1993), 292–97.
* Brent Lee Metcalfe, "Apologetic and Critical Assumptions about Book of Mormon Historicity," ''Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought'' 26/3 (Fall 1993): 161 n. 27.
*{{SearchForTheTruthDVD}}

==Should we expect to find swords?==
[[Image:Macahuitl-Burton.png|frane|right|Macuhitl sword from Richard F. Burton, ''Book of the Sword '' (London: Chatto & Windus, 1884). Public domain image (copyright expired.) Originally obtained from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Macahuitl.png. Caption from original work reads: "Mexican sword of the fifteenth century, of Iron Wood, with Ten Blades of Black Obsidian Fixed Into the Wood (This weapon is twenty-five inches long.)"]]

For an archaeologist to find swords or other weapons in the Old World (the ancient Near East) is very unusual.

As a matter of fact although hundreds of times as much archaeological digging has been done in the Near East as in Mesoamerica, finds of Near Eastern weapons of any type are rarely made. The obvious reason for that is that the kinds of places archaeologists excavate (e.g., temples, elite houses, public buildings) are not where weapons were kept or left anciently.

As a matter of fact, there was little or no reason to intentionally leave a perfectly good weapon anywhere. It would be passed on to another person/warrior, or if left unintentionally it would be salvaged by the first person to find it.

The same would be true in Mesoamerica (where metals were even more rare than in the ancient Near East), or anywhere else.

How we learn the most about weapons in antiquity is from art—''if'' the artist happened to depict a battle scene or armed warriors.

At present, no archaeological evidence for swords of steel (or any other metal) exists in America from Pre-Columbian times. There is now evidence for steel swords in the ancient Near East (something that critics long denied).{{ref|fn1}} So, even in the ancient Near East—where the conditions are more suited to preserving artifacts, and much more archaeologic work has been done—the identification of steel weapons is recent.

==Are all swords made of metal?==

The Book of Mormon does indicate that at least some swords were made of metal, specifically, "steel." Some Jaredites are described with steel weapons (see {{s||Ether|7|9}}), and {{s||Mosiah|8|11}} mentions Limhi's explorers finding the remains of Jaredite battles with blades that have rusted, suggesting that they were metallic.

Nephi<sup>1</sup> also acquired an Old World steel sword from Laban ({{s|1|Nephi|4|9}}).

Critics make the unwarranted assumption that because ''some'' weapons—generally used by elite leaders—are described as being made of metal, we must therefore conclude that ''all'' Book of Mormon swords were made of metal.

In fact, what the Book of Mormon suggests is that some of the elite among the Jaredites and the Nephites had metal swords at certain times, but most swords and armor were not made of metal. Steel swords were exceptional and rare (and, because they were unusual, such weapons were mentioned specifically by the Book of Mormon authors).

==Jaredite metallic swords==
The earliest reference to steel swords in the Book of Mormon is in a passage recounting the notable deeds of Prince Shule. Shule is described as "mighty in judgment" ({{s||Ether|7|8}}). We are told, "Wherefore, he came to the hill Ephraim, and he did molten out of the hill, and made swords out of steel for those whom he had drawn away with him; and after he had armed them with swords he returned to the city Nehor, and gave battle unto his brother Corihor, by which means he obtained the kingdom" ({{s||Ether|7|9}}). Note here that Shule appears to be the one with the knowledge and skill to do this. "He did molten," he "made swords out of steel," "he . . . armed them." Did he pass this remarkable skill on to others? The passage does not say. It is interesting, however, that the next generation is nearly wiped out ({{s||Ether|9|12}}) and that there is no further mention of steel in the Book of Ether following this episode. Is this an indication that steel technology among the Jaredites was subsequently lost? In periods of social anarchy, valuable possessions tend to be stolen and lost or destroyed. They couldn't keep them ({{s||Ether|14|1}}; {{s||Helaman|13|34}}).

The other passage bearing on the question of Jaredite swords is the one describing King Limhi's search party. Although, they did not find the land of Zarahemla, the search party found ruins of buildings and bones of the Jaredites along with the 24 gold plates of Ether. "And also they have brought breastplates, which are large and they are of brass and of copper, and are perfectly sound. And again they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust" ({{s||Mosiah|8|10-11}}). We are not told if the blades were of steel or some other metal which can rust. The search party brought back the plates and the breastplates and the rusted sword blades "for a testimony that the things that they had said are true" ({{s||Mosiah|8|9}}). The fact that they brought the breastplates and rusted sword blades back to Limhi suggests that metal blades and breastplates of copper were rare or unusual.

==Nephite metallic swords==

===After the manner of the sword of Laban...===
After separating from the Lamanites, Nephi states, "And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords, lest by any means the people who were now called Lamanites should come upon us and destroy us" ({{s|2|Nephi|5|15}}). Nephi also indicates that he taught his people various skills which included, among other things, working in various metals and some form of steel working ({{s|2|Nephi|5|15}}). One way to read this is that Nephi made other steel swords.

It should be remembered, however, that steel working is a difficult and multifaceted process. Nephi's knowledge of steel may have meant he was skilled enough to make long steel sword blades, or it could simply refer to steel ornamentation. It is interesting to note that Nephi, writing decades after these events, still considered Laban's steel blade to be "most precious" ({{s|1|Nephi|4|9}}). What made Laban's blade "most precious" decades after Nephi made swords for his people? Is this an indication that Nephi's skills with steel, whatever they consisted of fell short of making long steel blades?

Another way to read this is that Nephi made swords after the general pattern of Laban's sword—that is, as a straight shaft with sharp blades along both edges, rather than a one-sided sickle sword which was also common in the ancient near East.{{ref|fn2}}

As William J. Hamblin observed:

:The minimalist and tightest reading of this evidence is that Nephi had a steel weapon from the Near East. He attempted to imitate this weapon-whether in function, form, or material is unclear. His descendants apparently abandoned this technology by no later than 400 B.C. Based on a careful reading of the text of the Book of Mormon, there are no grounds for claiming-as anti-Mormons repeatedly do-that the Book of Mormon describes a massive steel industry with thousands of soldiers carrying steel swords in the New World.{{ref|hamblin1}}

===Did metal swords persist?===

If we suppose that Nephi made other steel swords, need we assume that all subsequent Nephite swords had blades of steel or other metal? To how many Nephites did Nephi pass on the knowledge of working in steel? Did all Nephites know how to work steel or just some? The last reference to steel among the Nephite is during the time of Jarom ({{s||Jarom|1|8}}). After that, steel is never again mentioned among the Nephites. When the Zeniffites return to the land of Nephi a few generations later, they work with iron and other metals, but not steel. This, perhaps not coincidentally, is the last reference to Nephite "iron" ({{s||Mosiah|11|3,8}}).

One has to wonder if some of these early skills were lost. It was apparently an exceptional thing for Nephi or Benjamin to wield the sword of Laban in the defense of their people ({{s||Jacob|1|10}}; {{s||W+of+M|1|13}}). Why would this be necessary for a king if steel technology was commonplace and well-known? This again, suggests that steel swords were the exception not the norm.

One should remember, too, that the "steel" of Joseph Smith's day was not modern steel, and KJV "steel" referred to bronze, not steeled iron. (''See FAIR wiki article on [[Book_of_Mormon_anachronisms:Metals|metals]], especially [[Book_of_Mormon_anachronisms:Metals#Steel|steel]]''.)

===Historical parallels===

By way of historical analogy, in many rural villages in places such as Asia or Africa, one family of artisans might supply the metallurgical needs of thousands, yet the ferrous skills possessed by those few could easily be lost in just one raid. It seems reasonable to suggest that a similar situation occurred among the early Jaredites and Nephites in ancient Mesoamerica.

In a recent study of North American copper pan pipes, one scholar attempted to explain why certain copper technologies, if once available in North American Middle Woodland cultures, were not passed down to subsequent groups. She reasoned, "The technological information must have been restricted to a limited number of individuals and artisans. Following the disruption of the interaction sphere, this information in the hands of so few artificers and entrepreneurs was not passed on and was consequently lost. There was no retention of that knowledge and when, half a millennium later new societies developed, it was with new copper techniques and new artifact styles."{{ref|goodman1}}

In the absence of archaeological evidence for metal weapons in early Mesoamerican times, it is worth remembering that there is linguistic evidence, noted by John Sorenson, for metals in Mesoamerican antiquity dating back to Olmec times.{{ref|sorenson1}} When this is coupled with the interpretation of the rarity of metals swords mentioned above, the issue is much less problematic when additional perspective is added.

==Were there swords in Pre-Columbian America?==

[[Image:Obs_sword_florentine_codex2.jpg|frame|left|Macuhitl swords from the 15th Century ''Florentine Codex'']]
Some critics have charged that no Pre-Columbian swords existed at all. This is clearly false; evidence from Pre-Columbian art supports the idea that there were swords as early as the Pre-classic.{{ref|roper1}} Non-LDS authors have often used the term "sword" for such weapons.{{ref|fn3}}

Scott Brian, a graduate student of Archaeology at BYU, has made several reconstructions of a ''macahuitl,'' the ancient Mesoamerican weapon often termed a "sword"—the term the Spaniards used when they faced this fearsome weapon that could cut better than metal swords.

''See photos of the modern reconstruction:''
<small>[http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6395/424/1600/macahuitl-3.jpg Photo 1] [http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6395/424/1600/macahuitl-2.jpg Photo 2] [http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6395/424/1600/macahuitl-1.jpg Photo 3]</small>

[[Image:Obs_sword_florentine_codex1.jpg|frame|right|Macuhitl swords from the 15th Century ''Florentine Codex'']]

One chronicle described the ''macuhuitl'''s ability to decapitate a horse:

:While we were at grips with this great army and their ''dreadful broadswords'', many of the most powerful among the enemy seem to have decided to capture a horse. They began with a furious attack, and laid hands on a good mare well trained both for sport and battle. Her rider, Pedro de Moron, was a fine horseman; and as he charged with three other horsemen into enemy ranks—they had been instructed to charge together for mutual support—some of them seized his lance so that he could not use it, and others slashed at him with their ''broadswords'', wounding him severely, Then they slashed at his mare, cutting her head at the neck so that it only hung by the skin. The mare fell dead, and if his mounted comrades had not come to Moron's rescue, he would probably have been killed also.{{ia}}{{ref|roper2}}

===Book of Mormon examples===

Some Book of Mormon passages make less sense if the reference to "sword" is read as a European-style, metallic sword.

For example, the Anti-Nephi-Lehi group described how the atonement of Christ had miraculous made their swords "bright" again, after being stained with the blood of murder:
[[Image:6irx-obsidianSmall.JPG|right|frame|Obsidian gleaming in the light. From R.Weller/Cochise College, free for non-commercial educational use. Original [http://skywalker.cochise.edu/wellerr/rocks/igrx/obsidian4.htm here].]]
:And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain—Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins.({{s||Alma|24|11-13}})

Wiping blood from a metal blade is simple—cleaning such a weapon is no miracle. However, the wooden-hafted ''macuhuitl'' would absorb the blood, making it almost impossible to clean. The "brightness" of the sword blades matches well with obsidian fragments. Obsidian was polished into mirrors, and gleamed brightly. The Spaniard Torquemada described obsidian as

:a stone which might be called precious, more beautiful and brilliant than alabaster or jasper, so much so that of it are made tablets and mirrors...{{ref|torq1}}

For other photos of how shiny obsidian can be here: <small>{{ObsidianImage1}}, {{ObsidianImage2}}, {{ObsidianImage3}}</small>

==Conclusion==

# Metal swords are rare in the Book of Mormon, and so likely to be rare in the archaeologic record.
# Few weapons of any kind have been found in archaelogic digs from the Old World; lack of investigation and a more challenging environment make it unsurprising that metallic weapons have yet to be found in Mesoamerica. The critics' argument is merely from silence in this case.
# Swords clearly existed in Mesoamerica, and they were so labeled by Spanish conquistadors.
# Some descriptions of Nephite/Lamanite swords make more sense if a non-metallic sword such as a ''macahuitl'' is indicated by the text.

In short, critics have not taken the time to understand the Book of Mormon text and the Pre-Columbian context from which it springs. They read the text in the most naive fashion possible, and so dismiss it unfairly.

==Endnotes==
#{{note|fn1}} {{JBMS-14-2-11}}
#{{note|fn2}} Yigael Yadin, ''The Art of Warfare in Biblical Lands'' 1:10—11.
#{{note|hamblin1}} William J. Hamblin, "Steel in the Book of Mormon," {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/bom/bom18.html}}
#{{note|goodman1}} Claire G. Goodman, ''Copper Artifacts in Late Eastern Woodlands Prehistory'', edited by Anne-Marie Cantwell, (Evanston, Illinois: Northwestern University Center for American Archaeology, 1984), 73.
#{{note|sorenson1}} {{Aas|start=279|end=280}}{{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?doc_id=263781}}
#{{note|roper1}}{{JBMS-8-1-6}}
#{{note|fn3}} Diego Durán, ''The History of the Indies of New Spain'', trans. Doris Heyden (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1994), 66, 76, 109, 135, 139, 150, 152–53, 171, 198, 279, 294, 323, 375, 378, 412, 428, 437, 441, 451, 519, 552–53; Diego Durán, ''Book of the Gods and Rites and the Ancient Calendar'', trans. Doris Heyden and Fernando Horcasitas (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1971), 124, 178–80, 234, 236; The macuahuitl "was equivalent to the sword of the Old Continent"; Francesco S. Clavijero, ''The History of Mexico'', trans. Charles Cullen, 3 vols. (Philadelphia: Budd and Bartram, 1804), 2:165. Cited in {{JBMS-5-1-7}} See footnotes 4-5.
#{{note|roper2}} Over a dozen examples are cited in {{JBMS-5-1-7}} This example comes from Bernal Diaz, ''The Conquest of New Spain'', trans. J. M. Cohen (New York: Penguin Books, 1963), 145.
#{{note|torq1}} P. Marcou, "Procédé des Aztèques pour la taille par éclatement des couteaux ou rasoirs d'obsidienne," trans. by Edward B. Tylor, ''Journal de la Société des Americanistas de Paris'' 13 (1921): 19; cited in {{FR-9-1-15}}

==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===
{{Book of Mormon anachronisms}}

===FAIR web site===
*{{tg|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai160.html|topic=Weapons and Warefare in Book of Mormon}}

===External links===

*{{JBMS-2-2-12}}
*{{JBMS-8-1-7}}
*{{JBMS-14-2-11}}
*{{FR-6-1-14}} (see pages 481-483).
*{{JBMS-2-1-4}}
*{{JBMS-2-1-5}}
*{{JBMS-5-1-7}}
*{{FR-9-1-15}}
*{{JBMS-8-1-6}}
*{{FR-6-1-10}} (see pages 324-331).

===Printed material===

*{{warfarebom|author=William J. Hamblin and A. Brent Merrill|article=Swords in the Book of Mormon|start=329|end=351}}
*{{Aas|start=262|end=263}}

Book of Mormon/Warfare/Weapons/Swords

2007-04-06T12:11:13Z

MikeAsh: /* Criticism */

==Criticism==

Critics claim that Book of Mormon swords are anachronistic. They claim that no New World swords answering to the Book of Mormon's description have been found, and argue that this counts against the Book of Mormon's historicity.

===Source(s) of criticism===
* Deanne G. Matheny, "Does the Shoe Fit? A Critique of the Limited Tehuantepec Geography," in ''New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology'', ed. Brent Lee Metcalfe (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1993), 292–97.
* Brent Lee Metcalfe, "Apologetic and Critical Assumptions about Book of Mormon Historicity," ''Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought'' 26/3 (Fall 1993): 161 n. 27.
*{{SearchForTheTruthDVD}}

==Should we expect to find swords?==
[[Image:Macahuitl-Burton.png|frane|right|Macuhitl sword from Richard F. Burton, ''Book of the Sword '' (London: Chatto & Windus, 1884). Public domain image (copyright expired.) Originally obtained from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Macahuitl.png. Caption from original work reads: "Mexican sword of the fifteenth century, of Iron Wood, with Ten Blades of Black Obsidian Fixed Into the Wood (This weapon is twenty-five inches long.)"]]

For an archaeologist to find swords or other weapons in the Old World (the ancient Near East) is very unusual.

As a matter of fact although hundreds of times as much archaeological digging has been done in the Near East as in Mesoamerica, finds of Near Eastern weapons of any type are rarely made. The obvious reason for that is that the kinds of places archaeologists excavate (e.g., temples, elite houses, public buildings) are not where weapons were kept or left anciently.

As a matter of fact, there was little or no reason to intentionally leave a perfectly good weapon anywhere. It would be passed on to another person/warrior, or if left unintentionally it would be salvaged by the first person to find it.

The same would be true in Mesoamerica (where metals were even more rare than in the ancient Near East), or anywhere else.

How we learn the most about weapons in antiquity is from art—''if'' the artist happened to depict a battle scene or armed warriors.

At present, no archaeological evidence for swords of steel (or any other metal) exists in America from Pre-Columbian times. There is now evidence for steel swords in the ancient Near East (something that critics long denied).{{ref|fn1}} So, even in the ancient Near East—where the conditions are more suited to preserving artifacts, and much more archaeologic work has been done—the identification of steel weapons is recent.

==Are all swords made of metal?==

The Book of Mormon does indicate that at least some swords were made of metal, specifically, "steel." Some Jaredites are described with steel weapons (see {{s||Ether|7|9}}), and {{s||Mosiah|8|11}} mentions Limhi's explorers finding the remains of Jaredite battles with blades that have rusted, suggesting that they were metallic.

Nephi<sup>1</sup> also acquired an Old World steel sword from Laban ({{s|1|Nephi|4|9}}).

Critics make the unwarranted assumption that because ''some'' weapons—generally used by elite leaders—are described as being made of metal, we must therefore conclude that ''all'' Book of Mormon swords were made of metal.

In fact, what the Book of Mormon suggests is that some of the elite among the Jaredites and the Nephites had metal swords at certain times, but most swords and armor were not made of metal. Steel swords were exceptional and rare (and, because they were unusual, such weapons were mentioned specifically by the Book of Mormon authors).

==Jaredite metallic swords==
The earliest reference to steel swords in the Book of Mormon is in a passage recounting the notable deeds of Prince Shule. Shule is described as "mighty in judgment" ({{s||Ether|7|8}}). We are told, "Wherefore, he came to the hill Ephraim, and he did molten out of the hill, and made swords out of steel for those whom he had drawn away with him; and after he had armed them with swords he returned to the city Nehor, and gave battle unto his brother Corihor, by which means he obtained the kingdom" ({{s||Ether|7|9}}). Note here that Shule appears to be the one with the knowledge and skill to do this. "He did molten," he "made swords out of steel," "he . . . armed them." Did he pass this remarkable skill on to others? The passage does not say. It is interesting, however, that the next generation is nearly wiped out ({{s||Ether|9|12}}) and that there is no further mention of steel in the Book of Ether following this episode. Is this an indication that steel technology among the Jaredites was subsequently lost? In periods of social anarchy, valuable possessions tend to be stolen and lost or destroyed. They couldn't keep them ({{s||Ether|14|1}}; {{s||Helaman|13|34}}).

The other passage bearing on the question of Jaredite swords is the one describing King Limhi's search party. Although, they did not find the land of Zarahemla, the search party found ruins of buildings and bones of the Jaredites along with the 24 gold plates of Ether. "And also they have brought breastplates, which are large and they are of brass and of copper, and are perfectly sound. And again they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust" ({{s||Mosiah|8|10-11}}). We are not told if the blades were of steel or some other metal which can rust. The search party brought back the plates and the breastplates and the rusted sword blades "for a testimony that the things that they had said are true" ({{s||Mosiah|8|9}}). The fact that they brought the breastplates and rusted sword blades back to Limhi suggests that metal blades and breastplates of copper were rare or unusual.

==Nephite metallic swords==

===After the manner of the sword of Laban...===
After separating from the Lamanites, Nephi states, "And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords, lest by any means the people who were now called Lamanites should come upon us and destroy us" ({{s|2|Nephi|5|15}}). Nephi also indicates that he taught his people various skills which included, among other things, working in various metals and some form of steel working ({{s|2|Nephi|5|15}}). One way to read this is that Nephi made other steel swords.

It should be remembered, however, that steel working is a difficult and multifaceted process. Nephi's knowledge of steel may have meant he was skilled enough to make long steel sword blades, or it could simply refer to steel ornamentation. It is interesting to note that Nephi, writing decades after these events, still considered Laban's steel blade to be "most precious" ({{s|1|Nephi|4|9}}). What made Laban's blade "most precious" decades after Nephi made swords for his people? Is this an indication that Nephi's skills with steel, whatever they consisted of fell short of making long steel blades?

Another way to read this is that Nephi made swords after the general pattern of Laban's sword—that is, as a straight shaft with sharp blades along both edges, rather than a one-sided sickle sword which was also common in the ancient near East.{{ref|fn2}}

As William J. Hamblin observed:

:The minimalist and tightest reading of this evidence is that Nephi had a steel weapon from the Near East. He attempted to imitate this weapon-whether in function, form, or material is unclear. His descendants apparently abandoned this technology by no later than 400 B.C. Based on a careful reading of the text of the Book of Mormon, there are no grounds for claiming-as anti-Mormons repeatedly do-that the Book of Mormon describes a massive steel industry with thousands of soldiers carrying steel swords in the New World.{{ref|hamblin1}}

===Did metal swords persist?===

If we suppose that Nephi made other steel swords, need we assume that all subsequent Nephite swords had blades of steel or other metal? To how many Nephites did Nephi pass on the knowledge of working in steel? Did all Nephites know how to work steel or just some? The last reference to steel among the Nephite is during the time of Jarom ({{s||Jarom|1|8}}). After that, steel is never again mentioned among the Nephites. When the Zeniffites return to the land of Nephi a few generations later, they work with iron and other metals, but not steel. This, perhaps not coincidentally, the last reference to Nephite "iron" ({{s||Mosiah|11|3,8}}).

One has to wonder if some of these early skills were lost. It was apparently an exceptional thing for Nephi or Benjamin to wield the sword of Laban in the defense of their people ({{s||Jacob|1|10}}; {{s||W+of+M|1|13}}). Why would this be necessary for a king if steel technology was commonplace and well-known? This again, suggests that steel swords were the exception not the norm.

One should remember, too, that the "steel" of Joseph Smith's day was not modern steel, and KJV "steel" referred to bronze, not steeled iron. (''See FAIR wiki article on [[Book_of_Mormon_anachronisms:Metals|metals]], especially [[Book_of_Mormon_anachronisms:Metals#Steel|steel]]''.)

===Historical parallels===

By way of historical analogy, in many rural villages in places such as Asia or Africa, one family of artisans might supply the metallurgical needs of thousands, yet the ferrous skills possessed by those few could easily be lost in just one raid. It seems reasonable to suggest that a similar situation occurred among the early Jaredites and Nephites in ancient Mesoamerica.

In a recent study of North American copper pan pipes, one scholar attempted to explain why certain copper technologies, if once available in North American Middle Woodland cultures, were not passed down to subsequent groups. She reasoned, "The technological information must have been restricted to a limited number of individuals and artisans. Following the disruption of the interaction sphere, this information in the hands of so few artificers and entrepreneurs was not passed on and was consequently lost. There was no retention of that knowledge and when, half a millennium later new societies developed, it was with new copper techniques and new artifact styles."{{ref|goodman1}}

In the absence of archaeological evidence for metal weapons in early Mesoamerican times, it is worth remembering that there is linguistic evidence, noted by John Sorenson, for metals in Mesoamerican antiquity dating back to Olmec times.{{ref|sorenson1}} When this is coupled with the interpretation of the rarity of metals swords mentioned above, the issue is much less problematic when additional perspective is added.

==Were there swords in Pre-Columbian America?==

[[Image:Obs_sword_florentine_codex2.jpg|frame|left|Macuhitl swords from the 15th Century ''Florentine Codex'']]
Some critics have charged that no Pre-Columbian swords existed at all. This is clearly false; evidence from Pre-Columbian art supports the idea that there were swords as early as the Pre-classic.{{ref|roper1}} Non-LDS authors have often used the term "sword" for such weapons.{{ref|fn3}}

Scott Brian, a graduate student of Archaeology at BYU, has made several reconstructions of a ''macahuitl,'' the ancient Mesoamerican weapon often termed a "sword"—the term the Spaniards used when they faced this fearsome weapon that could cut better than metal swords.

''See photos of the modern reconstruction:''
<small>[http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6395/424/1600/macahuitl-3.jpg Photo 1] [http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6395/424/1600/macahuitl-2.jpg Photo 2] [http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6395/424/1600/macahuitl-1.jpg Photo 3]</small>

[[Image:Obs_sword_florentine_codex1.jpg|frame|right|Macuhitl swords from the 15th Century ''Florentine Codex'']]

One chronicle described the ''macuhuitl'''s ability to decapitate a horse:

:While we were at grips with this great army and their ''dreadful broadswords'', many of the most powerful among the enemy seem to have decided to capture a horse. They began with a furious attack, and laid hands on a good mare well trained both for sport and battle. Her rider, Pedro de Moron, was a fine horseman; and as he charged with three other horsemen into enemy ranks—they had been instructed to charge together for mutual support—some of them seized his lance so that he could not use it, and others slashed at him with their ''broadswords'', wounding him severely, Then they slashed at his mare, cutting her head at the neck so that it only hung by the skin. The mare fell dead, and if his mounted comrades had not come to Moron's rescue, he would probably have been killed also.{{ia}}{{ref|roper2}}

===Book of Mormon examples===

Some Book of Mormon passages make less sense if the reference to "sword" is read as a European-style, metallic sword.

For example, the Anti-Nephi-Lehi group described how the atonement of Christ had miraculous made their swords "bright" again, after being stained with the blood of murder:
[[Image:6irx-obsidianSmall.JPG|right|frame|Obsidian gleaming in the light. From R.Weller/Cochise College, free for non-commercial educational use. Original [http://skywalker.cochise.edu/wellerr/rocks/igrx/obsidian4.htm here].]]
:And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain—Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins.({{s||Alma|24|11-13}})

Wiping blood from a metal blade is simple—cleaning such a weapon is no miracle. However, the wooden-hafted ''macuhuitl'' would absorb the blood, making it almost impossible to clean. The "brightness" of the sword blades matches well with obsidian fragments. Obsidian was polished into mirrors, and gleamed brightly. The Spaniard Torquemada described obsidian as

:a stone which might be called precious, more beautiful and brilliant than alabaster or jasper, so much so that of it are made tablets and mirrors...{{ref|torq1}}

For other photos of how shiny obsidian can be here: <small>{{ObsidianImage1}}, {{ObsidianImage2}}, {{ObsidianImage3}}</small>

==Conclusion==

# Metal swords are rare in the Book of Mormon, and so likely to be rare in the archaeologic record.
# Few weapons of any kind have been found in archaelogic digs from the Old World; lack of investigation and a more challenging environment make it unsurprising that metallic weapons have yet to be found in Mesoamerica. The critics' argument is merely from silence in this case.
# Swords clearly existed in Mesoamerica, and they were so labeled by Spanish conquistadors.
# Some descriptions of Nephite/Lamanite swords make more sense if a non-metallic sword such as a ''macahuitl'' is indicated by the text.

In short, critics have not taken the time to understand the Book of Mormon text and the Pre-Columbian context from which it springs. They read the text in the most naive fashion possible, and so dismiss it unfairly.

==Endnotes==
#{{note|fn1}} {{JBMS-14-2-11}}
#{{note|fn2}} Yigael Yadin, ''The Art of Warfare in Biblical Lands'' 1:10—11.
#{{note|hamblin1}} William J. Hamblin, "Steel in the Book of Mormon," {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/bom/bom18.html}}
#{{note|goodman1}} Claire G. Goodman, ''Copper Artifacts in Late Eastern Woodlands Prehistory'', edited by Anne-Marie Cantwell, (Evanston, Illinois: Northwestern University Center for American Archaeology, 1984), 73.
#{{note|sorenson1}} {{Aas|start=279|end=280}}{{GL1|url=http://gospelink.com/library/doc?doc_id=263781}}
#{{note|roper1}}{{JBMS-8-1-6}}
#{{note|fn3}} Diego Durán, ''The History of the Indies of New Spain'', trans. Doris Heyden (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1994), 66, 76, 109, 135, 139, 150, 152–53, 171, 198, 279, 294, 323, 375, 378, 412, 428, 437, 441, 451, 519, 552–53; Diego Durán, ''Book of the Gods and Rites and the Ancient Calendar'', trans. Doris Heyden and Fernando Horcasitas (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1971), 124, 178–80, 234, 236; The macuahuitl "was equivalent to the sword of the Old Continent"; Francesco S. Clavijero, ''The History of Mexico'', trans. Charles Cullen, 3 vols. (Philadelphia: Budd and Bartram, 1804), 2:165. Cited in {{JBMS-5-1-7}} See footnotes 4-5.
#{{note|roper2}} Over a dozen examples are cited in {{JBMS-5-1-7}} This example comes from Bernal Diaz, ''The Conquest of New Spain'', trans. J. M. Cohen (New York: Penguin Books, 1963), 145.
#{{note|torq1}} P. Marcou, "Procédé des Aztèques pour la taille par éclatement des couteaux ou rasoirs d'obsidienne," trans. by Edward B. Tylor, ''Journal de la Société des Americanistas de Paris'' 13 (1921): 19; cited in {{FR-9-1-15}}

==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===
{{Book of Mormon anachronisms}}

===FAIR web site===
*{{tg|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai160.html|topic=Weapons and Warefare in Book of Mormon}}

===External links===

*{{JBMS-2-2-12}}
*{{JBMS-8-1-7}}
*{{JBMS-14-2-11}}
*{{FR-6-1-14}} (see pages 481-483).
*{{JBMS-2-1-4}}
*{{JBMS-2-1-5}}
*{{JBMS-5-1-7}}
*{{FR-9-1-15}}
*{{JBMS-8-1-6}}
*{{FR-6-1-10}} (see pages 324-331).

===Printed material===

*{{warfarebom|author=William J. Hamblin and A. Brent Merrill|article=Swords in the Book of Mormon|start=329|end=351}}
*{{Aas|start=262|end=263}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Archaeology

2007-03-30T12:47:14Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Archaeology}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Is There Archaeological Support for the Book of Mormon?</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Like numerous critics before them, the makers of this video claim that archaeological support for the Book of Mormon is non-existent compared to the supposed voluminous archaeological support for the Bible. There are major differences, however, between Old and New World archaeology as well as the assumptions which many people bring to their approach of Book of Mormon archaeology.

LDS Mesoamerican expert John Clark has demonstrated numerous Book of Mormon parallels to New World culture that were unknown to Joseph Smith. Time and again, the Book of Mormon view has been vindicated.

'''To read more:'''
*{{JBMS-14-2-8}}
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]
*{{Ensign|author=Daniel C. Peterson|article=Mounting Evidence for the Book of Mormon|vol=30|num=1|date=January 2000|start=18|end=24}}{{link|url=http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=741f6a4430c0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: One of the ways to "prove the validity of the word of God" is from "the physical facts found in archaeology..."</h2>
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Archaeology can not "prove" that a document is the "word of God." Does archaeology confirm that Jesus is the Christ, that he rose from the dead, or that he atoned for our sins? Archaeology supports the existence of Homer's Troy, does that make the ''Iliad'' the word of God? Are Hera and Zeus therefore to be worshiped?

There is no archaeological evidence for Moses, Abraham, Joseph of Egypt, Noah, or virtually any ancient biblical prophet, but this is never mentioned in the video. Many biblical archaeologists are not Christians. Why not, if the Bible has been proven to be the word of God by archaeological data?

All that archaeology has proven is that those who wrote the Bible lived in the ancient Near East, and knew its culture and geography—a not terribly revolutionary claim.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: The Bible has over "25,000 evidences" for its authenticity.</h2>
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Old World archaeology has the advantage of continuity of ''toponyms'' (place names). In many instances (in direct contrast to what we find in Mesoamerica), Bible cities are still known by the same names as they were known anciently. It is impossible to know if the Book of Mormon names are "right," because no one knows the pronunciation of ''any'' city in the Americas for the period 600 B.C.–A.D. 420.

Even with the advantages of a constant language and habitation enjoyed by biblical archaeology, however, only about 7–8% of Bible locations are known with any degree of certainty, and another 7–8% are suspected with some degree of accuracy because they are in proximity to known Bible sites. If there had not been a continuity of toponyms, many more biblical sites would not be known.

Many readers are surprised to learn that the location of numerous biblical sites are unknown. The location of Mt. Sinai, for example, has over twenty possible candidates. Some scholars reject the claim that the city of Jericho existed at the time of Joshua. The exact route taken by the Israelites on their Exodus is unknown, and some scholars dispute the biblical claim that there ever was an Israelite conquest of Canaan. Many other examples could be given.

Non-LDS biblical archaeologist, William Dever, claims that archaeology should never be supposed to prove the Bible in any sense, and that

:''neither biblical scholars nor archaeologists have been able to document as historical any of the events, much less the personalities, of the patriarchal or Mosaic era.''
::<small>—William G. Dever, ''Recent Archaeological Discoveries and Biblical Research'' (Seattle and London: University of Washington Press, 1990), 5, 26.</small>
'''To read more:'''
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and biblical archaeology]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: The video quotes BYU professor Dee Green who said that unlike biblical archaeology, which can be studied because we know the locations of cities such as Jerusalem, "no Book of Mormon location is known with reference to modern topography.... After twenty years of research," wrote Dee, "Book of Mormon geography has left us 'empty-handed.' "</h2>
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What the video producers fail to tell their viewers is that this statement was made in ''1969''. Forty additional years of Book of Mormon studies and New World archaeological research has added significantly to our understanding of both disciplines. For example, Dr. John Sorenson (anthropologist) and Dr. John Clark (archaeologist and director of the New World Archaeological Foundation) have shown that the Book of Mormon fits neatly (and, at times, in surprising ways) with what we currently know about ancient Mesoamerica during Book of Mormon times. Such studies are more realistic than the research of Dee Green's generation and they tend to confirm the Book of Mormon narrative.

'''To read more:'''
*{{JBMS-14-2-8}}
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]
*John L. Sorenson, "Digging into the Book of Mormon: Our Changing Understanding of Ancient America and Its Scripture," ''Ensign'' (September 1984): 27–37.{{link|url=http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=c4f105481ae6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}
*John L. Sorenson, "Digging into the Book of Mormon: Our Changing Understanding of Ancient America and Its Scripture, Part 2," ''Ensign'' (October 1984): 12–24.{{link|url=http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=c3c205481ae6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Not one artifact from the Book of Mormon has ever been found. Not one city, not one empire...."</h2>
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Such a charge is based on naive and faulty assumptions. Ancient Mesoamerica was virtually unknown to the people of Joseph Smith's day and locale. When the Book of Mormon was translated, there was almost no archaeological support for the record. Today, however, most things mentioned in the Book of Mormon ''have been'' confirmed to have existed in—what most LDS scholars believe—are Book of Mormon lands. This would include fortifications, armor, thrones, cement, towers, trade, and more. None of these evidences, however, translate into "proof."

How would we recognize uniquely Nephite/Lamanite artifacts? How would we recognize a Nephite potsherd from a non-Nephite potsherd? Writings or markings associated with an artifact would be necessary to tell us if such potsherds were Nephite. Writings and markings are generally either
*''iconographic'': using pictures or symbols, such as a cross, or
*''epigraphic'': written language, such as the word, "cross."

Surviving epigraphic evidence from ancient America, however, is very rare.

If we knew the place names by which all ancient American cities were known during Book of Mormon times, critics might have a stronger case. The fact is, however, that extremely few ancient inscriptions give us these place names. The few which are known are generally phonetic in nature (which means that we don't know for certain how these city names were pronounced). Because we don't know the original names of most ancient American cities, we use those designations assigned by the Spanish—such as La Venta, San Lorenz, etc. If we don't know the ancient names, how can critics claim that—according to archaeologists—there were no Book of Mormon
cities such as Lib, or Bountiful?

'''Old world inscriptional evidence'''

Critics almost never mention the discovery of "NHM"—an ancient site in Arabia with inscriptions which date to Lehi's era—that corresponds precisely with the Nahom of the Book of Mormon ({{s|1|Nephi|16|34}}) in time frame, location, and in relation to an eastward turn in the trail which the Lehites followed in their exodus from the Old World. While NHM does not constitute "proof" for the Book of Mormon, it does provide strong archaeological evidence for the book's narrative.

The precise identification of a viable route from Jerusalem across Arabia via a route totally unknown in Joseph Smith's day is also compelling evidence for 1 Nephi's ancient origins.

The video misleads its viewers about what is possible given current archaeologic knowledge, and hides areas that give support to the Book of Mormon account.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Book of Mormon geography:Old World|Book of Mormon "hits" in Old World archaeology and geography]]
*[[Book of Mormon geography:Old World#Nahom|Nahom/NHM discovery]]
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: Not one Book of Mormon weapon, of any kind, has ever been found.</h2>

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From iconographic evidence we know that ancient Americans used weapons that function in the same way as described in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon, for example, mentions swords. Most readers have assumed that this referred to metal (European-like) swords. Such an assumption, however, is unwarranted. Mesoamericans used wooden clubs, laced with volcanic obsidian (extremely sharp), or bits of sharp rock or even (in rare occasions) bits of metal. When the Spanish encountered these clubs, they dubbed them "swords," and one Spaniard claimed that these swords were so sharp that he saw a Native American cut the head off a horse with one blow.

But, how would we know if a weapon found was a "Book of Mormon" weapon or not? Do the critics expect these to be labeled? How do they know a weapon found in the Middle East is a "biblical" weapon, save that it came from the correct time period? How can they know if it was used by a biblical people or a different group.

The DVD misleads its viewers about what archaelogy can accomplish.

'''To read more'''
*[[Book of Mormon and warfare|Swords, armor, forts and tactics]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: Not one coin "which were noted as being common in Joseph's writings" has ever been found in ancient America.</h2>

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While twentieth-century editors (possibly James E. Talmage) mistakenly added the term "coins" to the chapter heading of Alma 11, the Book of Mormon text ''never'' mentions coins (let alone mentions them as "being common"). Interestingly enough, however, the Book of Mormon does mention a monetary system that has remarkable Old World parallels.

This has been frequently addressed, but anti-Mormons simply ignore the evidence and keep repeating the same claim.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Book of Mormon anachronisms:Coins|No coins in Book of Mormon]]
*"The Numerical Elegance of the Nephite System": [http://farms.byu.edu/jbms/8_2_1999_chart2.html Table 1] and [http://farms.byu.edu/jbms/8_2_1999_chart1.html Table 2], ''Journal of Book of Mormon Studies'' 8/2 (1999)
*{{JBMS-8-2-6}}
*{{JBMS-8-2-5}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "According to the Book of Mormon" the "hill Cumorah" was "in Palmyra, N.Y...." and the "Church won't even commit itself to a map of where the Book of Mormon was supposed to have happened."</h2>
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The Book of Mormon doesn't tell us that Cumorah was in New York. And, contrary to what many people have believed, the Book of Mormon doesn't tell us where Moroni buried the plates. We do know, however, that all the plates ''except'' the Book of Mormon plates were buried in Cumorah. The term "Cumorah" was given to the hill in N.Y. by early Latter-day Saints, not the Book of Mormon.

Why is there no official map? The location of Book of Mormon events hasn't been revealed. Why is there no official map designating the exact location of Jesus' birth (which is debated among biblical scholars)? Why is there no official map designating the precise location of Mt. Sinai? It doesn't seem necessary for God to reveal all geographical information in order for a text to qualify as the Word of God.

The video's double standards are again on display.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Archaeology and the Hill Cumorah]]
*[[Book of Mormon geography:Statements:First Presidency Letter|No official position on Nephite Cumorah location]]
*[[Book of Mormon geography:New World#The Hill Cumorah|Textual evidence about Cumorah's location]]
* {{DVDWitnessingRepeats}}
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Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Book of Abraham

2007-03-27T20:20:31Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Book of Abraham}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
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{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "For generations scholars have shown irrefutable evidence that the ...Pearl of Great Price... [is] faulty" and that the translation is "completely false."</h2>
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'''The Church always forthright'''

The Church has always been frank and open about what is on the papyri in its possession. When the papyri were rediscovered in the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art and donated to the Church on 27 November, 1967, the Church immediately published an article in their official magazine less than two months later. A follow-up article on an additional papyrus fragment was published the following month, complete with photos:
* {{IE|author=Jay M. Todd|article=Egyptian Papyri Rediscovered|date=January 1968|start=12|end=16}}
* {{IE1|author=Jay M. Todd|article=New Light on Joseph Smith's Egyptian Papyri: Additional Fragment Disclosed|date=February 1968|start=40}}
* {{IE|author=Jay M. Todd|article=Background of the Church Historian's Fragment|date=February 1968|start=40A|end=40I}}

LDS scholar Hugh Nibley began a series of articles in the January 1968 edition which ran for months. Nibley was not hesitant in explaining what was on the papyri in the Church's possession. In August 1968, he repeatedly emphasized that much of the text was the Egyptian Book of the Dead:
*'' "...the texts of the 'Joseph Smith Papyri' identified as belonging to the Book of the Dead"'' (p. 55)
* ''"...The largest part of the Joseph Smith Papyri in the possession of the Church consists of fragments from the Egyptian Book of the Dead, the fragments having been recently translated and discussed by no less a scholar that Professor John A. Wilson."'' (p. 57)
*''"These points can be illustrated by the mst easily recognized section of the Joseph Smith papyri, namely, the fragment with the picture of a swallow, Chapter 86 of the Book of the Dead..."''(p. 57)
*''"..we may take the best-known picture from the Book of the Dead, the well-known judgment scene or 'Psychostasy,' a fine example of which is found among the Joseph Smith papyri."'' (p. 59)

Lest the reader miss this claim in the small print, it was reprinted in large bold type across two pages:

* ''"The largest parts of the...papyri in possession of the Church consists of fragments from the Egyptian Book of the Dead..."'' (pp. 56-57) [[Search for the Truth DVD:Book_of_Abraham:Book of Dead Scan (full size zoom)|See image]] (680 KB).

'''Oversimplifying the translation issues'''

The issues surrounding the translation of the Egyptian papyri that resulted in the Book of Abraham are much more complex than critics would like us to believe. Foremost, it is significant to realize that we don't have all the papyri that were originally owned by Joseph. Of the five scrolls originally owned by Joseph, only eleven fragments of two scrolls have survived—one of which is an Egyptian ''Sensen'' text containing the vignette for Facsimile 1 from the LDS Book of Abraham. Basically, we don't know exactly what was missing, so we can't say for certain that Joseph Smith's papyri collection didn't contain a document that could translate into the Book of Abraham.

But why, some might ask, would a Book of Abraham be present among ancient Egyptian funerary scrolls? We know from other ancient documents that sometimes scrolls with different material were attached together. Some ancient copies of the Egyptian ''Book of the Dead,'' for example, have been found to contain a variety of other non-funerary texts including stories similar to the sacrifice of Abraham (involving different personalities), temple rituals, and more. Yale-trained, professional Egyptologist Dr. John Gee estimates that about 40% of known Sensen texts have other texts attached to them.

Some Egyptian papyri, for example, contain Egyptian instructions on one side and Semitic writings on the back side—in one case Psalms chapters 20–55. One Egyptian temple archive (with an extensive collection of Egyptian rituals), provides an early copy of the “Prayer of Jacob” and two copies of the “Eight Book of Moses” with a discussion of the initiation into the temple at Jerusalem. Both Moses and Abraham are mentioned in this collection and the most commonly invoked deity is Jehovah.

Finally, we know that ancient Israelites sometimes used Egyptian symbols to convey religious teachings. Many Biblical scholars, for instance, believe that an ancient Egyptian book—the Instructions of Amenemope—may have been the source for portions of the biblical book of Proverbs. An ancient ''Testament of Abraham'' also seems to have a connection to the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

It is not unlikely—in fact it seems plausible in light of other documentary discoveries—that an ancient Book of Abraham was attached to the Egyptian papyri owned by Joseph Smith. Properly interpreting the Egyptian elements in the Facsimiles may well require that we understand how ''Jewish'' authors understood and adapted such elements.

The critics' "irrefutable evidence" is anything but.

'''To read more:'''
* {{Ensign|author=Daniel C. Peterson|article=News from Antiquity: Evidence supporting the book of Abraham continues to turn up in a wide variety of sources|vol=24|num=1|date=January 1994|start=16|end=21}}{{link|url=http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=19bd425e0848b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}
* Kevin L. Barney, "The Facsimiles and Semitic Adaptation of Existing Sources," {{link|url=http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/bookschapter.php?bookid=40&chapid=168}}
* [[Template:BofAPortal|Book of Abraham]]
* [[Book of Abraham:Book of the Dead|Book of the Dead not hidden]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Part of the papyri translated by Joseph allegedly shows a priest about to sacrifice Abraham on an altar, but in reality it has been discovered that the papyri actually depicts a common funeral text many centuries after Abraham’s time."</h2>
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There are two issues in the above accusation. (1) The Sensen text (from where we get Facsimile 1 showing the near-sacrifice of Abraham) is supposedly a "common" Egyptian "funeral text", and (2) this text dates "many centuries after Abraham's time." Both issues are examined below:

#The late Dr. Klaus Baer, a renowned non-LDS Egyptologist from the University of Chicago, claimed that the Book of Abraham's Facsimile 1 is ''not'' typical of similar vignettes found among Egyptian papyri. While other "lion couch" scenes can be found in Egyptian papyri, the Book of Abraham's "lion couch" scene is ''unique''. Dr. Gee knows of no other instance where it is included in a Sensen text or in a copy of the Book of the Dead.

#While the date of the actual papyri and style of the vignette date to many centuries after Abraham's time, we find the same thing among most ancient manuscripts—even biblical manuscripts. The earliest manuscript we have of Matthew, for instance, is a third-century copy. This doesn't negate the fact that Matthew's original copy was penned centuries earlier, probably in the first century A.D. It seems only reasonable that followers of Abraham continued to preserve copies of the Book of Abraham for centuries after the original account was recorded (we find the same thing among nearly all Old Testament manuscripts).

'''To read more:'''
* {{Ensign|author=Daniel C. Peterson|article=News from Antiquity [‘Evidence supporting the book of Abraham continues to turn up in a wide variety of sources’]|vol=24|num=1|date=January 1994|start=16|end=21}}{{link|url=http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=19bd425e0848b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}
* Kevin L. Barney, "The Facsimiles and Semitic Adaptation of Existing Sources," {{link|url=http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/bookschapter.php?bookid=40&chapid=168}}
* [[Template:BofAPortal|Book of Abraham]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "We have not found one non-LDS Egyptologist who supports [Joseph Smith's] translation [of the Book of Abraham papyri]." [''Video cuts to Charles Larson, credited as "Historian, Author."''] LARSON: "I first became aware that the Book of Abraham had a problem when I had been studying other Mormon literature and anthropology...."</h2>
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By mentioning "non-LDS Egyptologists" and then immediately transitioning to Charles Larson, the video implies that Larson is, himself, an Egyptologist, or at least qualified to speak on Egyptology. Unfortunately, nothing could be further from the truth—he has no training in these fields.

Larson is the author of the well-known but deeply flawed anti-Mormon book <i>"By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus": A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri</i>. This book has been reviewed by LDS Egyptologists who hold degrees in the field. One reviewer summed up Larson's work:

:''Larson's historical method is as follows: Invent evidence, read minds, attribute motives, misquote sources, argue from circumstantial evidence—or better yet—argue from no evidence....''
:''If Larson stumbles as a historian, he falls flat on his face as an Egyptologist. He betrays no knowledge of any foreign language, yet offers to guide us through Egyptian, "a unique area of study that is extremely difficult to master."''
:<small>—John Gee, "A Tragedy of Errors," p. 99.</small>

The only qualifications listed for Larson at his publisher's web site are "former Mormon and Brigham Young University graduate." If the producers of the video can dismiss trained Egyptologists only because they are Mormon, is it reasonable to likewise dismiss critics like Larson because of his religious beliefs? Or should we add to those critical religious beliefs the fact that he is not trained in Egyptology at all? The producers willingly apply a double standard here.

'''To read more:'''
*{{FR-4-1-15}}
*{{FR-4-1-16}}
* [[Template:BofAPortal|Book of Abraham]]
* {{DVDWitnessingRepeats}}
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Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Archaeology

2007-03-24T17:58:36Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Archaeology}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Is There Archaeological Support for the Book of Mormon?</h2>
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Like numerous critics before them, the makers of this video claim that archaeological support for the Book of Mormon is non-existent compared to the supposed voluminous archaeological support for the Bible. There are major differences, however, between Old and New World archaeology as well as the assumptions which many people bring to their approach of Book of Mormon archaeology.

LDS Mesoamerican expert John Clark has demonstrated numerous Book of Mormon parallels to New World culture that were unknown to Joseph Smith. Time and again, the Book of Mormon view has been vindicated.

'''To read more:'''
*{{JBMS-14-2-8}}
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]
*{{Ensign|author=Daniel C. Peterson|article=Mounting Evidence for the Book of Mormon|vol=30|num=1|date=January 2000|start=18|end=24}}{{link|url=http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=741f6a4430c0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: One of the ways to "prove the validity of the word of God" is from "the physical facts found in archaeology..."</h2>
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Archaeology can not "prove" that a document is the "word of God." Does archaeology confirm that Jesus is the Christ, that he rose from the dead, or that he atoned for our sins? Archaeology supports the existence of Homer's Troy, does that make the ''Iliad'' the word of God? Are Hera and Zeus therefore to be worshiped?

There is no archaeological evidence for Moses, Abraham, Joseph of Egypt, Noah, or virtually any ancient biblical prophet, but this is never mentioned in the video. Many biblical archaeologists are not Christians. Why not, if the Bible has been proven to be the word of God by archaeological data?

All that archaeology has proven is that those who wrote the Bible lived in the ancient Near East, and knew its culture and geography—a not terribly revolutionary claim.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: The Bible has over "25,000 evidences" for its authenticity.</h2>
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Old World archaeology has the advantage of continuity of ''toponyms'' (place names). In many instances (in direct contrast to what we find in Mesoamerica), Bible cities are still known by the same names as they were known anciently. It is impossible to know if the Book of Mormon names are "right," because no one knows the pronunciation of ''any'' city in the Americas for the period 600 B.C.–A.D. 420.

Even with the advantages of a constant language and habitation enjoyed by biblical archaeology, however, only about 7–8% of Bible locations are known with any degree of certainty, and another 7–8% are suspected with some degree of accuracy because they are in proximity to known Bible sites. If there had not been a continuity of toponyms, many more biblical sites would not be known.

Many readers are surprised to learn that the location of numerous biblical sites are unknown. The location of Mt. Sinai, for example, has over twenty possible candidates. Some scholars reject the claim that the city of Jericho existed at the time of Joshua. The exact route taken by the Israelites on their Exodus is unknown, and some scholars dispute the biblical claim that there ever was an Israelite conquest of Canaan. Many other examples could be given.

Non-LDS biblical archaeologist, William Dever, claims that archaeology should never be supposed to prove the Bible in any sense, and that

:''neither Biblical scholars nor archaeologists have been able to document as historical any of the events, much less the personalities, of the patriarchal or Mosaic era.''
::<small>—William G. Dever, ''Recent Archaeological Discoveries and Biblical Research'' (Seattle and London: University of Washington Press, 1990), 5, 26.</small>
'''To read more:'''
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: The video quotes BYU professor Dee Green who said that unlike biblical archaeology, which can be studied because we know the locations of cities such as Jerusalem, "no Book of Mormon location is known with reference to modern topography...." After twenty years of research, wrote Dee, Book of Mormon geography has left us "empty-handed."</h2>
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What the video producers fail to tell their viewers is that this statement was made in ''1969''. Forty additional years of Book of Mormon studies and New World archaeological research has added significantly to our understanding of both disciplines. For example, Dr. John Sorenson (anthropologist) and Dr. John Clark (archaeologist and director of the New World Archaeological Foundation) have shown that the Book of Mormon fits neatly (and, at times, in surprising ways) with what we currently know about ancient Mesoamerica during Book of Mormon times. Such studies are more realistic than the research of Dee Green's generation and they tend to confirm the Book of Mormon narrative.

'''To read more:'''
*{{JBMS-14-2-8}}
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]
*John L. Sorenson, "Digging into the Book of Mormon: Our Changing Understanding of Ancient America and Its Scripture," ''Ensign'' (September 1984): 27–37.{{link|url=http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=c4f105481ae6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}
*John L. Sorenson, "Digging into the Book of Mormon: Our Changing Understanding of Ancient America and Its Scripture, Part 2," ''Ensign'' (October 1984): 12–24.{{link|url=http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=c3c205481ae6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Not one artifact from the Book of Mormon has ever been found. Not one city, not one empire...."</h2>
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Such a charge is based on naive and faulty assumptions. Ancient Mesoamerica was virtually unknown to the people of Joseph Smith's day and locale. When the Book of Mormon was translated, there was almost no archaeological support for the record. Today, however, most things mentioned in the Book of Mormon ''have been'' confirmed to have existed in—what most LDS scholars believe—are Book of Mormon lands. This would include fortifications, armor, thrones, cement, towers, trade, and more. None of these evidences, however, translate into "proof."

How would we recognize uniquely Nephite/Lamanite artifacts? How would we recognize a Nephite potsherd from a non-Nephite potsherd? Writings or markings associated with an artifact would be necessary to tell us if such potsherds were Nephite. Writings and markings are generally either
*''iconographic'': using pictures or symbols, such as a cross, or
*''epigraphic'': written language, such as the word, "cross."

Surviving epigraphic evidence from ancient America, however, is very rare.

If we knew the place names by which all ancient American cities were known during Book of Mormon times, critics might have a stronger case. The fact is, however, that extremely few ancient inscriptions give us these place names. The few which are known are generally phonetic in nature (which means that we don't know for certain how these city names were pronounced). Because we don't know the original names of most ancient American cities, we use those designations assigned by the Spanish—such as La Venta, San Lorenz, etc. If we don't know the ancient names, how can critics claim that—according to archaeologists—there were no Book of Mormon
cities such as Lib, or Bountiful?

'''Old world inscriptional evidence'''

Critics almost never mention the discovery of "NHM"—an ancient site in Arabia with inscriptions which date to Lehi's era—that corresponds precisely with the Nahom of the Book of Mormon ({{s|1|Nephi|16|34}}) in time frame, location, and in relation to an eastward turn in the trail which the Lehites followed in their exodus from the Old World. While NHM does not constitute "proof" for the Book of Mormon, it does provide strong archaeological evidence for the book's narrative.

The precise identification of a viable route from Jerusalem across Arabia via a route totally unknown in Joseph Smith's day is also compelling evidence for 1 Nephi's ancient origins.

The video misleads its viewers about what is possible given current archaeologic knowledge, and hides areas that give support to the Book of Mormon account.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Book of Mormon geography:Old World|Book of Mormon "hits" in Old World archaeology and geography]]
*[[Book of Mormon geography:Old World#Nahom|Nahom/NHM discovery]]
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: Not one Book of Mormon weapon, of any kind, has ever been found.</h2>

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From iconographic evidence we know that ancient Americans used weapons that function in the same way as described in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon, for example, mentions swords. Most readers have assumed that this referred to metal (European-like) swords. Such an assumption, however, is unwarranted. Mesoamericans used wooden clubs, laced with volcanic obsidian (extremely sharp), or bits of sharp rock. When the Spanish encountered these clubs, they dubbed them "swords," and one Spaniard claimed that these swords were so sharp that he saw a Native American cut the head off a horse with one blow.

But, how would we know if a weapon found was a "Book of Mormon" weapon or not? Do the critics expect these to be labeled? How do they know a weapon found in the Middle East is a "Biblical" weapon, save that it came from the correct time period? How can they know if it was used by a Biblical people or a different group.

The DVD misleads its viewers about what archaelogy can accomplish.

'''To read more'''
*[[Book of Mormon and warfare|Swords, armor, forts and tactics]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: Not one coin "which were noted as being common in Joseph's writings" has ever been found in ancient America.</h2>

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While twentieth-century editors (possibly James E. Talmage) mistakenly added the term "coins" to the chapter heading of Alma 11, the Book of Mormon text ''never'' mentions coins (let alone mentions them as "being common"). Interestingly enough, however, the Book of Mormon does mention a monetary system that has remarkable Old World parallels.

This has been frequently addressed, but anti-Mormons simply ignore the evidence and keep repeating the same claim.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Book of Mormon anachronisms:Coins|No coins in Book of Mormon]]
*"The Numerical Elegance of the Nephite System": [http://farms.byu.edu/jbms/8_2_1999_chart2.html Table 1] and [http://farms.byu.edu/jbms/8_2_1999_chart1.html Table 2], ''Journal of Book of Mormon Studies'' 8/2 (1999)
*{{JBMS-8-2-6}}
*{{JBMS-8-2-5}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "According to the Book of Mormon" the "hill Cumorah" was "in Palmyra, N.Y...." and the "Church won't even commit itself to a map of where the Book of Mormon was supposed to have happened."</h2>
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The Book of Mormon doesn't tell us that Cumorah was in New York. And, contrary to what many people have believed, the Book of Mormon doesn't tell us where Moroni buried the plates. We do know, however, that all the plates ''except'' the Book of Mormon plates were buried in Cumorah. The term "Cumorah" was given to the hill in N.Y. by early Latter-day Saints, not the Book of Mormon.

Why is there no official map? The location of Book of Mormon events hasn't been revealed. Why is there no official map designating the exact location of Jesus' birth (which is debated among biblical scholars)? Why is there no official map designating the precise location of Mt. Sinai? It doesn't seem necessary for God to reveal all geographical information in order for a text to qualify as the Word of God.

The video's double standards are again on display.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Archaeology and the Hill Cumorah]]
*[[Book of Mormon geography:Statements:First Presidency Letter|No official position on Nephite Cumorah location]]
*[[Book of Mormon geography:New World#The Hill Cumorah|Textual evidence about Cumorah's location]]
* {{DVDWitnessingRepeats}}
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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Credits

2007-03-24T17:23:19Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Credits}}

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It may be helpful to those viewing the video to know a little more about some of the people who participated in the making of this video. The credits list people associated with the production of the video. There is one section of the credits, entitled "Special Thanks" that lists people who provided commentary on the video.

Individuals are highlighted, below, in alphabetical order.

! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Marvin Cowan</h2>
|-
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<div style="float:right;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:CowanMarvin.png]]<br />''Marvin Cowan''
</div>
Marvin is the director or owner of Utah Christian Publications. This organization sells exclusivly anti-Mormon books and materials. Many of the books sold by Utah Christian Publications are written by the other people listed in the credits of this DVD.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Gallatin</h2>
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<div style="float:left;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:GallatinScott.png]]<br />''Scott Gallatin''
</div>
Scott Gallatin is the pastor of Calvary Chapel Finger Lakes in Farmington, New York.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dennis and Rauni Higley</h2>
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Dennis and Rauni Higley live in Sandy, Utah. Rauni is originally a Finnish citizen and served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. Dennis is an American who also served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. They eventually met and were married in Utah. Together, they left the Church in the 1980s and became Evangelical Christians. They later established HIS (He is Savior) Ministries.

<div style="float:right;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:HigleyDR.png]]<br />''Dennis and Rauni Higley''
</div>
:The Higleys have been highly influenced by the Evangelical countercult arguments of the 1980s. During Rauni's stay in Finland in 1984 she was instrumental in the inception of a highly sensationalistic article on the Mormons in a religious magazine. The material relied on the book and movie ''The God Makers,'' with in-temple screenshots provided as illustrations. A typical statement related by a reviewer is: "The truth is kept secret on purpose. It is not meant but for the few and chosen, for Mormonism is a pagan religion tied to secret doctrines, mysteries, and occultism. On its most secret levels, a Luciferian doctrine is unveiled as the background...Mormonism is based on a secret for the simple reason of the truth being too gruesome for a normal, ordinary person"
::<small>—Kim Östman, "An International Perspective: Opposition to Mormonism in Finland, 1845-2006" (presentation at the 2006 FAIR Conference).</small>

In 2004 the Higleys wrote a thirty-page booklet, ''The Truth about Mormonism,'' published by The Berean Call, a ministry outlet closely associated with Dave Hunt.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Tim and Karen Howard</h2>
|-
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<div style="float:right;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:HowardTK.png]]<br />''Tim and Karen Howard''
</div>
Tim and Karen Howard are former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dave Hunt</h2>
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Dave Hunt has been actively involved in the countercult movement for over two decades. He is the coauthor, with Ed Decker, of both the original and the "updated and expanded" version of ''The God Makers.'' He is described as "an internationally recognized cult expert." The 1984 edition says he's the author of 10 books in 20 languages, and the 1994 edition gives him "20-plus books [with] combined sales of more than 3 million copies."

<div style="float:right;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:HuntDave.png]]<br />''Dave Hunt''
</div>

In commenting on the "problem of authority and credibility" within the Christian countercult movement (of which ''Search for the Truth'' is a product), one non-LDS scholar comments on Dave Hunt's place within the movement:

:Robert Wise begins his critique of ''The Seduction of Christianity'' in what seems an obvious, if often overlooked, place: who are Dave Hunt and Thomas Aloysius McMahon? Noting that "Hunt and McMahon define truth in a way peculiar to themselves," Wise continues: "We are never told who Hunt and McMahon are nor what credentials they have. Apparently, Hunt is a self-certified authority on cults" (1986: 40). DeMar and Leithart complain similarly: "That Dave Hunt, a man with a bachelor's degree in mathematics, is now the most prominent theologian of the dispensationalist movement...indicates the extent of the crisis" (1988: xvii).
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 199.</small>

''The God Makers'' was characterized by the US National Council of Christians and Jews as follows:

:"The Godmakers" ... does not, in our opinion, fairly portray the Mormon Church, Mormon belief, or Mormon history. It makes extensive use of 'half-truth', faulty generalizations, erroneous interpretations, and sensationalism…not reflective of the genuine spirit of the Mormon faith...It appears to us to be a basically unfair and untruthful presentation of what Mormons really believe and practice.''
::<small>— National Council of Christians and Jews, "Programs in Pluralism," April 1994.</small>{{link|url=http://www.lightplanet.com/response/nccj.htm}}

Mr. Hunt believes that all religions outside of his own are have their roots in Satanism, including Catholicism. According to one non-Mormon observer,

:[Hunt] presents the darkest possible version of Roman Catholic history, laying responsibility squarely at Rome's door for, among other things, the rise of Nazism in Germany (elsewhere he claims Hinduism is responsible; cf. Hunt 1983); the implementation of the Final Solution (Hunt 1994:265-93); and the Ustaschi (Croat) massacres of Yugoslavian Serbs in the early 1940s (Hunt 1994: 297-307). For Hunt...the syllogism is simple: Because there were at least nominal Catholics involved in these atrocities, therefore the Roman Catholic Church as an institution supported and encouraged their actions--a convenient, monocausal explanation for these various attrocities.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187.</small>

'''To read more:'''
* Gilbert W. Scharffs, "The Truth About 'The Godmakers'" (a line-by-line refutation) {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/}}
* Craig L. Foster, "Old Themes and Stereotypes Never Die: The Unchanging Ways of Anti-Mormons," {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/conf/2003FosC.html}}
* Robert Brown and Rosemary Brown, ''They Lie In Wait to Deceive: Vol. 4'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fair-lds.org/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FAIR-TLIW4}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Joel Kramer</h2>
|-
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<div style="float:left;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:KramerJoel.png]]<br />''Joel Kramer''
</div>
Joel Kramer is the Director of Living Hope Ministries from Brigham City, Utah. Their mission statement is: "Living Hope Ministries exists to share biblical truths with Mormons, and to educate and equip Christian individuals, ministries and churches to reach Mormons for the biblical Jesus Christ. " Living Hope Ministries has produced several anti-Mormon DVDs.

Joel was recently arrested for disorderly conduct because he refused to comply with a police officer as he was allegedly unlawfully video taping an LDS pageant.

'''To read more:'''
* Brant Gardner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Charles Larson</h2>
|-
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<div style="float:right;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:LarsonCharles.png]]<br />''Charles Larson''
</div>
Charles Larson is the author of <i>By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri</i>. A Yale educated egyptologist who is LDS summed up Larson's work:

:''Larson's historical method is as follows: Invent evidence, read minds, attribute motives, misquote sources, argue from circumstantial evidence—or better yet—argue from no evidence....''
:''If Larson stumbles as a historian, he falls flat on his face as an Egyptologist. He betrays no knowledge of any foreign language, yet offers to guide us through Egyptian, "a unique area of study that is extremely difficult to master."''
::<small>—John Gee, "A Tragedy of Errors," p. 99.</small>

The publisher's web site for Larsen's book lists his credentials as "former Mormon and Brigham Young University graduate."

'''To read more:'''
*{{FR-4-1-15}}
*{{FR-4-1-16}}
*[[Charles Larson|Reviews of Charles Larson]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Living Hope Ministries</h2>
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Living Hope Ministries is a Utah-based anti-Mormon ministry. To accomplish their goal of discrediting Mormonism they have produced and distributed several videos and plan on doing even more.

* '''To read more:'''
* Brant Gardner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Brian Mackert</h2>
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<div style="float:left;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:MackertBrian.png]]<br />''Brian Mackert''
</div>
Brian J. Mackert was born a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints church (FLDS), which believes that the LDS Church is in apostasy. According to his online biography, his great grandfather was excommunicated from the LDS Church in 1934 after publishing a book in support of polygamy, and his grandparents were excommunicated because they "would not comply with the current LDS Churches [sic] position on polygamy."

Mackert abandoned the FLDS and joined the LDS Church in his late teens. Shortly thereafter he stopped attending the LDS Church and became converted to born-again Evangelical Christianity and started attending local Baptist churches.

According to Brian's Web site:

:''Brian is now a licensed minister working in Prison Ministry preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ and sharing the forgiveness that only comes through the shed blood of Jesus Christ with prisoners and especially sex offenders.''
:''Brian is available upon request to give presentations concerning the beliefs, practices of Mormons and to give witnessing tips for those wanting to reach the Mormon People with the true gospel of Jesus Christ.''

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jon McCartney</h2>
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<div style="float:right;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:McCartneyJon.png]]<br />''Jon McCartney''
</div>
Jon (incorrectly spelled "John" in the video) McCartney is pastor of the First Baptist Church in Tooele, Utah.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Floyd McElveen</h2>
|-
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<div style="float:right;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:McElveen.png]]<br />''Floyd McElveen''
</div>
Floyd McElveen wrote a book that was distributed in Utah about 20 years ago titled <i>God's Word, Final, Infallible and Forever</i> and published by Gospel Truths Ministries in Grand Rapids, MI. The book includes two other titles, ''The Mormon Illusion'', and ''From Mormon Illusion to God's Love''. McElveen was described as " the national evangelist for the Conservative Baptist Home Mission Society."

McElveen also contributed a chapter to Charles Larson's <i>By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus,</i>.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Roger Oakland</h2>
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<div style="float:right;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:OaklandRoger.png]]<br />''Roger Oakland''
</div>
Roger Oakland is with Understanding the Times International, a countercult ministry. He has a number of articles at the organization's Web site, including many that attack Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, science, and New Age religious movements.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Phil Roberts</h2>
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<div style="float:left;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:RobertsPhil.png]]<br />''Phil Roberts''
</div>
Phil Roberts is president of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, in Kansas City. He has written or contributed to at least two anti-Mormon books— <i>Mormonism Unmasked</i> and <i>The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism</i>.

Roberts served as director of the Interfaith Witness Department of the North American Mission Board for the Southern Baptist Convention where, in 1998, he was responsible for producing the video ''The Mormon Puzzle.'' Roberts has also authored several other articles that are anti-Mormon in tone and focus.

'''To read more:'''
* {{FR-10-1-3}}
* {{FR-18-2-189}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Sandra Tanner</h2>
|-
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Sandra Tanner and her late husband, Jerald Tanner, are among the most prolific anti-Mormon authors. Sandra maintains The Utah Lighthouse Ministry which exists "to document problems with the claims of Mormonism and compare LDS doctrines with Christianity." A non-LDS scholar gave the following assessment of the Tanners' work:

<div style="float:right;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:TannerSandra.png]]<br />''Sandra Tanner''
</div>
:''[The Tanners] always assume the worst possible motives in assessing the actions of Mormon leaders, even when those leaders faced extremely complex problems with no simple solutions.... Every bit of evidence, even if it could be most plausibly presented in a positive way, is represented as yet another nail in the coffin being prepared for the Mormon Church. There is no spectrum of colors, only blacks and whites, good guys and villains in the Tanners' published writings.... The Tanners have repeatedly assumed a holier-than-thou stance, refusing to be fair in applying the same debate standards of absolute rectitude which they demand of Mormonism to their own actions, writings, and beliefs.''
::<small>—{{Dialogue1|author=Lawrence Foster|article=Career Apostates: Reflections on the Works of Jerald and Sandra Tanner|vol=17|num=2|date=Summer 1984|start=45|end=46}}</small>

'''To read more:'''
* [[Jerald_and_Sandra_Tanner|Reviews of Jerald and Sandra Tanner]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Chip Thompson</h2>
|-
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<div style="float:right;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:ThompsonChip.png]]<br />''Chip Thompson''
</div>
Chip Thompson is director of Tri-Grace Ministries in Ephraim, UT. Tri-Grace Ministries runs a college house facility, which is "intended to be safe haven for all Christian students who attend Snow College." His advisory board consists soley of professional anti-Mormon ministry leaders:
* Bill Mckeever, (Mormon Research Ministries, Sandy, UT)
* Luke Wilson, (Institute for Religious Research, Grand Rapids, MI)
* Keith Walker, (Evidence Ministries, San Antonio, TX)
* Bob Betts, (Board Member, Concerned Christians, Mesa, AZ)
* Timothy Oliver, (Utah Director, Watchman Fellowship, Santaquin, UT)

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">John Whitcomb</h2>
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<div style="float:right;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:WhitcombJohn.png]]<br />''John Whitcomb''
</div>
Dr. John Whitcomb, Th.D., is president of Whitcomb Ministries and former professor of Theology and Old Testament studies at Graceland Theological Seminary. Whitcomb is also co-author of <i>The Genesis Flood</i> which helped play a founding role in the modern "Creation Science" movement (although Whitcomb is a theologian rather than a scientist). Whitcomb believes in a young earth, a global flood, the preservation of dinosaurs on the ark, and an inerrant Bible that should be interpreted literally. He is critical of not only evolution, but also of progressive creationism and intelligent design.

It should be noted that Graceland Theological Seminary is not associated with Graceland College (Lamoni, Iowa), which is sponsored by the Communities of Christ, formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Credits

2007-03-24T14:04:25Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Credits}}

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It may be helpful to those viewing the video to know a little more about some of the people who participated in the making of this video. The credits list people associated with the production of the video. There is one section of the credits, entitled "Special Thanks" that lists people who provided commentary on the video.

Individuals are highlighted, below, in alphabetical order.

! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Marvin Cowan</h2>
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[[Image:CowanMarvin.png]]<br />''Marvin Cowan''
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Marvin is the director or owner of Utah Christian Publications. This organization sells exclusivly anti-Mormon books and materials. Many of the books sold by Utah Christian Publications are written by the other people listed in the credits of this DVD.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Gallatin</h2>
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[[Image:GallatinScott.png]]<br />''Scott Gallatin''
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Scott Gallatin is the pastor of Calvary Chapel Finger Lakes in Farmington, New York.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dennis and Rauni Higley</h2>
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Dennis and Rauni Higley live in Sandy, Utah. Rauni is originally a Finnish citizen and served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. Dennis is an American who also served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. They eventually met and were married in Utah. Together, they left the Church in the 1980s and became Evangelical Christians. They later established HIS (He is Savior) Ministries.

<div style="float:right;text-align:center;margin-right:0.9em;padding-left:1em;">
[[Image:HigleyDR.png]]<br />''Dennis and Rauni Higley''
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:The Higleys have been highly influenced by the Evangelical countercult arguments of the 1980s. During Rauni's stay in Finland in 1984 she was instrumental in the inception of a highly sensationalistic article on the Mormons in a religious magazine. The material relied on the book and movie ''The God Makers,'' with in-temple screenshots provided as illustrations. A typical statement related by a reviewer is: "The truth is kept secret on purpose. It is not meant but for the few and chosen, for Mormonism is a pagan religion tied to secret doctrines, mysteries, and occultism. On its most secret levels, a Luciferian doctrine is unveiled as the background...Mormonism is based on a secret for the simple reason of the truth being too gruesome for a normal, ordinary person"
::<small>—Kim Östman, "An International Perspective: Opposition to Mormonism in Finland, 1845-2006" (presentation at the 2006 FAIR Conference).</small>

In 2004 the Higleys wrote a thirty-page booklet, ''The Truth about Mormonism,'' published by The Berean Call, a ministry outlet closely associated with Dave Hunt.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Tim and Karen Howard</h2>
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Tim and Karen Howard are former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dave Hunt</h2>
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Dave Hunt has been actively involved in the countercult movement for over two decades. He is the coauthor, with Ed Decker, of both the original and the "updated and expanded" version of ''The God Makers.'' He is described as "an internationally recognized cult expert." The 1984 edition says he's the author of 10 books in 20 languages, and the 1994 edition gives him "20-plus books [with] combined sales of more than 3 million copies."

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[[Image:HuntDave.png]]<br />''Dave Hunt''
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In commenting on the "problem of authority and credibility" within the Christian countercult movement (of which ''Search for the Truth'' is a product), one non-LDS scholar comments on Dave Hunt's place within the movement:

:Robert Wise begins his critique of ''The Seduction of Christianity'' in what seems an obvious, if often overlooked, place: who are Dave Hunt and Thomas Aloysius McMahon? Noting that "Hunt and McMahon define truth in a way peculiar to themselves," Wise continues: "We are never told who Hunt and McMahon are nor what credentials they have. Apparently, Hunt is a self-certified authority on cults" (1986: 40). DeMar and Leithart complain similarly: "That Dave Hunt, a man with a bachelor's degree in mathematics, is now the most prominent theologian of the dispensationalist movement...indicates the extent of the crisis" (1988: xvii).
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 199.</small>

''The God Makers'' was characterized by the US National Council of Christians and Jews as follows:

:"The Godmakers" ... does not, in our opinion, fairly portray the Mormon Church, Mormon belief, or Mormon history. It makes extensive use of 'half-truth', faulty generalizations, erroneous interpretations, and sensationalism…not reflective of the genuine spirit of the Mormon faith...It appears to us to be a basically unfair and untruthful presentation of what Mormons really believe and practice.''
::<small>— National Council of Christians and Jews, "Programs in Pluralism," April 1994.</small>{{link|url=http://www.lightplanet.com/response/nccj.htm}}

Mr. Hunt believes that all religions outside of his own are have their roots in Satanism, including Catholicism. According to one non-Mormon observer,

:[Hunt] presents the darkest possible version of Roman Catholic history, laying responsibility squarely at Rome's door for, among other things, the rise of Nazism in Germany (elsewhere he claims Hinduism is responsible; cf. Hunt 1983); the implementation of the Final Solution (Hunt 1994:265-93); and the Ustaschi (Croat) massacres of Yugoslavian Serbs in the early 1940s (Hunt 1994: 297-307). For Hunt...the syllogism is simple: Because there were at least nominal Catholics involved in these atrocities, therefore the Roman Catholic Church as an institution supported and encouraged their actions--a convenient, monocausal explanation for these various attrocities.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187.</small>

'''To read more:'''
* Gilbert W. Scharffs, "The Truth About 'The Godmakers'" (a line-by-line refutation) {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/}}
* Craig L. Foster, "Old Themes and Stereotypes Never Die: The Unchanging Ways of Anti-Mormons," {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/conf/2003FosC.html}}
* Robert Brown and Rosemary Brown, ''They Lie In Wait to Deceive: Vol. 4'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fair-lds.org/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FAIR-TLIW4}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Joel Kramer</h2>
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[[Image:KramerJoel.png]]<br />''Joel Kramer''
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Joel Kramer is the Director of Living Hope Ministries from Brigham City, Utah. Their mission statement is: "Living Hope Ministries exists to share biblical truths with Mormons, and to educate and equip Christian individuals, ministries and churches to reach Mormons for the biblical Jesus Christ. " Living Hope Ministries has produced several anti-Mormon DVDs.

Joel was recently arrested for disorderly conduct because he refused to comply with a police officer as he was allegedly unlawfully video taping an LDS pageant.

'''To read more:'''
* Brant Gardner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Charles Larson</h2>
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[[Image:LarsonCharles.png]]<br />''Charles Larson''
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Charles Larson is the author of <i>By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri</i>. A Yale educated egyptologist who is LDS summed up Larson's work:

:''Larson's historical method is as follows: Invent evidence, read minds, attribute motives, misquote sources, argue from circumstantial evidence—or better yet—argue from no evidence....''
:''If Larson stumbles as a historian, he falls flat on his face as an Egyptologist. He betrays no knowledge of any foreign language, yet offers to guide us through Egyptian, "a unique area of study that is extremely difficult to master."''
::<small>—John Gee, "A Tragedy of Errors," p. 99.</small>

The publisher's web site for Larsen's book lists his credentials as "former Mormon and Brigham Young University graduate."

'''To read more:'''
*{{FR-4-1-15}}
*{{FR-4-1-16}}
*[[Charles Larson|Reviews of Charles Larson]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Living Hope Ministries</h2>
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Living Hope Ministries is a Utah-based anti-Mormon ministry. To accomplish their goal of discrediting Mormonism they have produced and distributed several videos and plan on doing even more.

* '''To read more:'''
* Brant Gardner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Brian Mackert</h2>
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[[Image:MackertBrian.png]]<br />''Brian Mackert''
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Brian J. Mackert was born a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints church (FLDS), which believes that the LDS Church is in apostasy. According to his online biography, his great grandfather was excommunicated from the LDS Church in 1934 after publishing a book in support of polygamy, and his grandparents were excommunicated because they "would not comply with the current LDS Churches [sic] position on polygamy."

Mackert abandoned the FLDS and joined the LDS Church in his late teens. Shortly thereafter he stopped attending the LDS Church and became converted to born-again Evangelical Christianity and started attending local Baptist churches.

According to Brian's Web site:

:''Brian is now a licensed minister working in Prison Ministry preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ and sharing the forgiveness that only comes through the shed blood of Jesus Christ with prisoners and especially sex offenders.''
:''Brian is available upon request to give presentations concerning the beliefs, practices of Mormons and to give witnessing tips for those wanting to reach the Mormon People with the true gospel of Jesus Christ.''

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jon McCartney</h2>
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Jon (also spelled "John" in the video) McCartney is pastor of the First Baptist Church in Tooele, Utah.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Floyd McElveen</h2>
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[[Image:McElveen.png]]<br />''Floyd McElveen''
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Floyd McElveen wrote a book that was distributed in Utah about 20 years ago titled <i>God's Word, Final, Infallible and Forever</i> and published by Gospel Truths Ministries in Grand Rapids, MI.. The book includes two other titles, ''The Mormon Illusion'', and ''From Mormon Illusion to God's Love''. McElveen was described as " the national evangelist for the Conservative Baptist Home Mission Society."

McElveen also contributed a chapter to Charles Larson's <i>By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus,</i>.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Roger Oakland</h2>
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[[Image:OaklandRoger.png]]<br />''Roger Oakland''
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Roger Oakland is with Understanding the Times International, a countercult ministry. He has a number of articles at the organization's Web site, including many that attack Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, science, and New Age religious movements.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Phil Roberts</h2>
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[[Image:RobertsPhil.png]]<br />''Phil Roberts''
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Phil Roberts is president of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, in Kansas City. He has written or contributed to at least two anti-Mormon books— <i>Mormonism Unmasked</i> and <i>The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism</i>.

Roberts served as director of the Interfaith Witness Department of the North American Mission Board for the Southern Baptist Convention where, in 1998, he was responsible for producing the video ''The Mormon Puzzle.'' Roberts has also authored several other articles that are anti-Mormon in tone and focus.

'''To read more:'''
* {{FR-10-1-3}}
* {{FR-10-1-12}}
* {{FR-18-2-189}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Sandra Tanner</h2>
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Sandra Tanner and her late husband, Jerald Tanner, are among the most prolific anti-Mormon authors. Sandra maintains The Utah Lighthouse Ministry which exists "to document problems with the claims of Mormonism and compare LDS doctrines with Christianity." A non-LDS scholar gave the following assessment of the Tanners' work:

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[[Image:TannerSandra.png]]<br />''Sandra Tanner''
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:''[The Tanners] always assume the worst possible motives in assessing the actions of Mormon leaders, even when those leaders faced extremely complex problems with no simple solutions.... Every bit of evidence, even if it could be most plausibly presented in a positive way, is represented as yet another nail in the coffin being prepared for the Mormon Church. There is no spectrum of colors, only blacks and whites, good guys and villains in the Tanners' published writings.... The Tanners have repeatedly assumed a holier-than-thou stance, refusing to be fair in applying the same debate standards of absolute rectitude which they demand of Mormonism to their own actions, writings, and beliefs.''
::<small>—{{Dialogue1|author=Lawrence Foster|article=Career Apostates: Reflections on the Works of Jerald and Sandra Tanner|vol=17|num=2|date=Summer 1984|start=45|end=46}}</small>

'''To read more:'''
* [[Jerald_and_Sandra_Tanner|Reviews of Jerald and Sandra Tanner]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Chip Thompson</h2>
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[[Image:ThompsonChip.png]]<br />''Chip Thompson''
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Chip Thompson is director of Tri-Grace Ministries in Ephraim, UT. Tri-Grace Ministries runs a college house facility, which is "intended to be safe haven for all Christian students who attend Snow College." His advisory board consists soley of professional anti-Mormon ministry leaders:
* Bill Mckeever, (Mormon Research Ministries, Sandy, UT)
* Luke Wilson, (Institute for Religious Research, Grand Rapids, MI)
* Keith Walker, (Evidence Ministries, San Antonio, TX)
* Bob Betts, (Board Member, Concerned Christians, Mesa, AZ)
* Timothy Oliver, (Utah Director, Watchman Fellowship, Santaquin, UT)

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">John Whitcomb</h2>
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[[Image:WhitcombJohn.png]]<br />''John Whitcomb''
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Dr. John Whitcomb, Th.D., is president of Whitcomb Ministries and former professor of Theology and Old Testament studies at Graceland Theological Seminary. Whitcomb is also co-author of <i>The Genesis Flood</i> which helped play a founding role in the modern "Creation Science" movement (although Whitcomb is a theologian rather than a scientist). Whitcomb believes in a young earth, a global flood, and an inerrant Bible that should be interpreted literally. He also claims that there were 1,000 different kinds of dinosaurs on the ark and he is critical of not only evolution, but also of progressive creationism and intelligent design.

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Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Archaeology

2007-03-24T00:38:06Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Archaeology}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Is There Archaeological Support for the Book of Mormon?</h2>
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Like numerous critics before them, the makers of this video claim that archaeological support for the Book of Mormon is non-existent compared to the supposed voluminous archaeological support for the Bible. There are major differences, however, between Old and New World archaeology as well as the assumptions which many people bring to their approach of Book of Mormon archaeology.

LDS Mesoamerican expert John Clark has demonstrated numerous Book of Mormon parallels to New World culture that were unknown to Joseph Smith. Time and again, the Book of Mormon view has been vindicated.

'''To read more:'''
*{{JBMS-14-2-8}}
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]
*{{Ensign|author=Daniel C. Peterson|article=Mounting Evidence for the Book of Mormon|vol=30|num=1|date=January 2000|start=18|end=24}}{{link|url=http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=741f6a4430c0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: One of the ways to "prove the validity of the word of God" is from "the physical facts found in archaeology..."</h2>
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Archaeology can not "prove" that a document is the "word of God." Does archaeology confirm that Jesus is the Christ, that he rose from the dead, or that he atoned for our sins? Archaeology supports the existence of Homer's Troy, does that make the ''Illiad'' the word of God? Are Hera and Zeus therefore to be worshipped?

There is no archaeological evidence for Moses, Abraham, Joseph of Egypt, Noah, or virtually any ancient biblical prophet, but this is never mentioned in the video. Many biblical archaeologists are not Christians. Why not, if the Bible has been proven to be the word of God by archaeological data?

All that archaeology has proven is that those who wrote the Bible lived in the ancient Near East, and knew its culture and geography—a not terribly revolutionary claim.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: The Bible has over "25,000 evidences" for its authenticity.</h2>
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Old World archaeology has the advantage of continuity of ''toponyms'' (place names). In many instances (and in direct contrast to what we find in Mesoamerica), Bible cities are still known by the same names as they were known anciently. It is impossible to know if the Book of Mormon names are "right," because no one knows the pronounciation of ''any'' city in the Americas for the period 600 B.C.–A.D. 420.

Even with the advantages of a constant language and habitation enjoyed by Biblical archaeology, however, only about 7–8% of Bible locations are known with any degree of certainty, and another 7–8% are suspected with some degree of accuracy because they are in proximity to known Bible sites. If there had not been a continuity of toponyms, many more biblical sites would not be known.

Many readers are surprised to learn that the location of numerous biblical sites are unknown. The location of Mt. Sinai, for example, has over twenty possible candidates. Some scholars reject the claim that the city of Jericho existed at the time of Joshua. The exact route taken by the Israelites on their Exodus is unknown, and some scholars dispute the biblical claim that there ever was an Israelite conquest of Canaan. Many other examples could be given.

Non-LDS biblical archaeologist, William Dever, claims that archaeology should never be supposed to prove the Bible in any sense, and that

:''"...neither Biblical scholars nor archaeologists have been able to document as historical any of the events, much less the personalities, of the patriarchal or Mosaic era."''
::<small>—William G. Dever, ''Recent Archaeological Discoveries and Biblical Research'' (Seattle and London: University of Washington Press, 1990), 5, 26.</small>
'''To read more:'''
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: The video quotes BYU professor Dee Green who said that that unlike Biblical archaeology, which can be studied because we know the locations of cities such as Jerusalem, “no Book of Mormon location is known with reference to modern topography...." After twenty years of research, wrote Dee, Book of Mormon geography has left us "empty-handed."</h2>
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What the video producers fail to tell their viewers is that this statement was made in ''1969''. Forty additional years of Book of Mormon studies and New World archaeological research has added significantly to our understanding of both disciplines. For example, Dr. John Sorenson (anthropologist) and Dr. John Clark (archaeologist and director of the New World Archaeological Foundation) have shown that the Book of Mormon fits neatly (and, at times, in surprising ways) with what we currently know about ancient Mesoamerica during Book of Mormon times. Such studies are more realistic than the research of Dee Green's generation and they tend to confirm the Book of Mormon narrative.

'''To read more:'''
*{{JBMS-14-2-8}}
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]
http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=c4f105481ae6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=c3c205481ae6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Not one artifact from the Book of Mormon has ever been found. Not one city, not one empire...."</h2>
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Such a charge is based on naive and faulty assumptions. Ancient Mesoamerica was virtually unknown to the people of Joseph Smith's day and locale. When the Book of Mormon was translated, there was almost no archaeological support for the record. Today, however, most things mentioned in the Book of Mormon ''have been'' confirmed to have existed in—what most LDS scholars believe—are Book of Mormon lands. This would include fortifications, armor, thrones, cement, towers, trade, and more. None of these evidences, however, translate into “proof.”

How would we recognize uniquely Nephite/Lamanite artifacts? How would we recognize a Nephite potsherd from a non-Nephite potsherd? Writings or markings associated with an artifact would be necessary to tell us if such potsherds were Nephite. Writings and markings are generally either
*''iconographic'': using pictures or symbols, such as a cross, or
*''epigraphic'': written language, such as the word, "cross."

Surviving epigraphic evidence from ancient America, however, is very rare.

If we knew the place names by which all ancient American cities were known during Book of Mormon times, critics might have a stronger case. The fact is, however, that extremely few ancient inscriptions give us these place names. The few which are known are generally phonetic in nature (which means that we don't know for certain how these city names were pronounced). Because we don't know the original names of most ancient American cities, we use those designations assigned by the Spanish—such as La Venta, San Lorenz, etc. If we don't know the ancient names, how can critics claim that—according to archaeologists—there were no Book of Mormon
cities such as Lib, or Bountiful?

'''Old world inscriptional evidence'''

Critics almost never mention the discovery of “NHM”—an ancient site in Arabia with inscriptions which date to Lehi's era—that corresponds precisely with the Nahom of the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 16:34) in timeframe, location, and in relation to an eastward turn in the trail which the Lehites followed in their exodus from the Old World. While NHM does not constitute “proof” for the Book of Mormon, it does provide strong archaeological evidence for the book's narrative.

The precise identification of a viable route from Jerusalem across Arabia via a route totally unknown in Joseph Smith's day is also compelling evidence for 1 Nephi's ancient origins.

The video misleads its viewers about what is possible given current archaeologic knowledge, and hides areas that give support to the Book of Mormon account.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Book of Mormon geography:Old World|Book of Mormon "hits" in Old World archaeology and geography]]
*[[Book of Mormon geography:Old World#Nahom|Nahom/NHM discovery]]
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: Not one Book of Mormon weapon, of any kind, has ever been found.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

From iconographic evidence we know that ancient Americans used weapons that function in the same way as described in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon, for example, mentions swords. Most readers have assumed that this referred to metal (European-like) swords. Such an assumption, however, is unwarranted. Mesoamericans used wooden clubs, laced with volcanic obsidian (extremely sharp), or bits of sharp rock. When the Spanish encountered these clubs, they dubbed them "swords," and one Spaniard claimed that these swords were so sharp that he saw a Native American cut the head off a horse with one blow.

But, how would we know if a weapon found was a "Book of Mormon" weapon or not? Do the critics expect these to be labeled? How do they know a weapon found in the Middle East is a "Biblical" weapon, save that it came from the correct time period? How can they know if it was used by a Biblical people or a different group.

The DVD misleads its viewers about what archaelogy can accomplish.

'''To read more'''
*[[Book of Mormon and warfare|Swords, armor, forts and tactics]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: Not one coin "which were noted as being common in Joseph's writings" has ever been found in ancient America.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

While twentieth-century editors (possibly James Talmage) mistakenly added the term “coins” to the chapter heading of Alma 11, the Book of Mormon text ''never'' mentions coins (let alone mentions them as "being common"). Interestingly enough, however, the Book of Mormon does mention a monetary system that has remarkable Old World parallels.

This has been frequently addressed, but anti-Mormons simply ignore the evidence and keep repeating the same claim.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Book of Mormon anachronisms:Coins|No coins in Book of Mormon]]
*"The Numerical Elegance of the Nephite System": [http://farms.byu.edu/jbms/8_2_1999_chart2.html Table 1] and [http://farms.byu.edu/jbms/8_2_1999_chart1.html Table 2], ''Journal of Book of Mormon Studies'' 8/2 (1999)
*{{JBMS-8-2-6}}
*{{JBMS-8-2-5}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "According to the Book of Mormon" the "hill Cumorah" was "in Palmyra, N.Y...." and the "Church won't even commit itself to a map of where the Book of Mormon was supposed to have happened."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The Book of Mormon doesn't tell us that Cumorah was in New York. And, contrary to what many people have believed, the Book of Mormon doesn't tell us where Moroni buried the plates. We do know, however, that all the plates ''except'' the Book of Mormon plates were buried in Cumorah. The term "Cumorah" was given to the hill in N.Y. by early Latter-day Saints, not the Book of Mormon.

Why is there no official map? The location of Book of Mormon events hasn't been revealed. Why is there no offical map designating the exact location of Jesus' birth (which is debated among biblical scholars)? Why is there no official map designating the precise location of Mt. Sinai? It doesn't seem necessary for God to reveal all geographical information in order for a text to qualify as the Word of God.

The video's double standards are again on display.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Archaeology and the Hill Cumorah]]
*[[Book of Mormon geography:Statements:First Presidency Letter|No official position on Nephite Cumorah location]]
*[[Book of Mormon geography:New World#The Hill Cumorah|Textual evidence about Cumorah's location]]
* {{DVDWitnessingRepeats}}
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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Archaeology

2007-03-24T00:32:54Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Archaeology}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Is There Archaeological Support for the Book of Mormon?</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Like numerous critics before them, the makers of this video claim that archaeological support for the Book of Mormon is non-existent compared to the supposed voluminous archaeological support for the Bible. There are major differences, however, between Old and New World archaeology as well as the assumptions which many people bring to their approach of Book of Mormon archaeology.

LDS Mesoamerican expert John Clark has demonstrated numerous Book of Mormon parallels to New World culture that were unknown to Joseph Smith. Time and again, the Book of Mormon view has been vindicated.

'''To read more:'''
*{{JBMS-14-2-8}}
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]
*{{Ensign|author=Daniel C. Peterson|article=Mounting Evidence for the Book of Mormon|vol=30|num=1|date=January 2000|start=18|end=24}}{{link|url=http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=741f6a4430c0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: One of the ways to "prove the validity of the word of God" is from "the physical facts found in archaeology..."</h2>
|-
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Archaeology can not "prove" that a document is the "word of God." Does archaeology confirm that Jesus is the Christ, that he rose from the dead, or that he atoned for our sins? Archaeology supports the existence of Homer's Troy, does that make the ''Illiad'' the word of God? Are Hera and Zeus therefore to be worshipped?

There is no archaeological evidence for Moses, Abraham, Joseph of Egypt, Noah, or virtually any ancient biblical prophet, but this is never mentioned in the video. Many biblical archaeologists are not Christians. Why not, if the Bible has been proven to be the word of God by archaeological data?

All that archaeology has proven is that those who wrote the Bible lived in the ancient Near East, and knew its culture and geography—a not terribly revolutionary claim.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: The Bible has over "25,000 evidences" for its authenticity.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Old World archaeology has the advantage of continuity of ''toponyms'' (place names). In many instances (and in direct contrast to what we find in Mesoamerica), Bible cities are still known by the same names as they were known anciently. It is impossible to know if the Book of Mormon names are "right," because no one knows the pronounciation of ''any'' city in the Americas for the period 600 B.C.–A.D. 420.

Even with the advantages of a constant language and habitation enjoyed by Biblical archaeology, however, only about 7–8% of Bible locations are known with any degree of certainty, and another 7–8% are suspected with some degree of accuracy because they are in proximity to known Bible sites. If there had not been a continuity of toponyms, many more biblical sites would not be known.

Many readers are surprised to learn that the location of numerous biblical sites are unknown. The location of Mt. Sinai, for example, has over twenty possible candidates. Some scholars reject the claim that the city of Jericho existed at the time of Joshua. The exact route taken by the Israelites on their Exodus is unknown, and some scholars dispute the biblical claim that there ever was an Israelite conquest of Canaan. Many other examples could be given.

Non-LDS biblical archaeologist, William Dever, claims that archaeology should never be supposed to prove the Bible in any sense, and that

:''"...neither Biblical scholars nor archaeologists have been able to document as historical any of the events, much less the personalities, of the patriarchal or Mosaic era."''
::<small>—William G. Dever, ''Recent Archaeological Discoveries and Biblical Research'' (Seattle and London: University of Washington Press, 1990), 5, 26.</small>
'''To read more:'''
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: The video quotes BYU professor Dee Green who said that that unlike Biblical archaeology, which can be studied because we know the locations of cities such as Jerusalem, “no Book of Mormon location is known with reference to modern topography...." After twenty years of research, wrote Dee, Book of Mormon geography has left us "empty-handed."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
What the video producers fail to tell their viewers is that this statement was made in ''1969''. Forty additional years of Book of Mormon studies and New World archaeological research has added significantly to our understanding of both disciplines. For example, Dr. John Sorenson (anthropologist) and Dr. John Clark (archaeologist and director of the New World Archaeological Foundation) have shown that the Book of Mormon fits neatly (and, at times, in surprising ways) with what we currently know about ancient Mesoamerica during Book of Mormon times. Such studies are more realistic than the research of Dee Green's generation and they tend to confirm the Book of Mormon narrative.
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Not one artifact from the Book of Mormon has ever been found. Not one city, not one empire...."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Such a charge is based on naive and faulty assumptions. Ancient Mesoamerica was virtually unknown to the people of Joseph Smith's day and locale. When the Book of Mormon was translated, there was almost no archaeological support for the record. Today, however, most things mentioned in the Book of Mormon ''have been'' confirmed to have existed in—what most LDS scholars believe—are Book of Mormon lands. This would include fortifications, armor, thrones, cement, towers, trade, and more. None of these evidences, however, translate into “proof.”

How would we recognize uniquely Nephite/Lamanite artifacts? How would we recognize a Nephite potsherd from a non-Nephite potsherd? Writings or markings associated with an artifact would be necessary to tell us if such potsherds were Nephite. Writings and markings are generally either
*''iconographic'': using pictures or symbols, such as a cross, or
*''epigraphic'': written language, such as the word, "cross."

Surviving epigraphic evidence from ancient America, however, is very rare.

If we knew the place names by which all ancient American cities were known during Book of Mormon times, critics might have a stronger case. The fact is, however, that extremely few ancient inscriptions give us these place names. The few which are known are generally phonetic in nature (which means that we don't know for certain how these city names were pronounced). Because we don't know the original names of most ancient American cities, we use those designations assigned by the Spanish—such as La Venta, San Lorenz, etc. If we don't know the ancient names, how can critics claim that—according to archaeologists—there were no Book of Mormon
cities such as Lib, or Bountiful?

'''Old world inscriptional evidence'''

Critics almost never mention the discovery of “NHM”—an ancient site in Arabia with inscriptions which date to Lehi's era—that corresponds precisely with the Nahom of the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 16:34) in timeframe, location, and in relation to an eastward turn in the trail which the Lehites followed in their exodus from the Old World. While NHM does not constitute “proof” for the Book of Mormon, it does provide strong archaeological evidence for the book's narrative.

The precise identification of a viable route from Jerusalem across Arabia via a route totally unknown in Joseph Smith's day is also compelling evidence for 1 Nephi's ancient origins.

The video misleads its viewers about what is possible given current archaeologic knowledge, and hides areas that give support to the Book of Mormon account.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Book of Mormon geography:Old World|Book of Mormon "hits" in Old World archaeology and geography]]
*[[Book of Mormon geography:Old World#Nahom|Nahom/NHM discovery]]
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: Not one Book of Mormon weapon, of any kind, has ever been found.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

From iconographic evidence we know that ancient Americans used weapons that function in the same way as described in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon, for example, mentions swords. Most readers have assumed that this referred to metal (European-like) swords. Such an assumption, however, is unwarranted. Mesoamericans used wooden clubs, laced with volcanic obsidian (extremely sharp), or bits of sharp rock. When the Spanish encountered these clubs, they dubbed them "swords," and one Spaniard claimed that these swords were so sharp that he saw a Native American cut the head off a horse with one blow.

But, how would we know if a weapon found was a "Book of Mormon" weapon or not? Do the critics expect these to be labeled? How do they know a weapon found in the Middle East is a "Biblical" weapon, save that it came from the correct time period? How can they know if it was used by a Biblical people or a different group.

The DVD misleads its viewers about what archaelogy can accomplish.

'''To read more'''
*[[Book of Mormon and warfare|Swords, armor, forts and tactics]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: Not one coin "which were noted as being common in Joseph's writings" has ever been found in ancient America.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

While twentieth-century editors (possibly James Talmage) mistakenly added the term “coins” to the chapter heading of Alma 11, the Book of Mormon text ''never'' mentions coins (let alone mentions them as "being common"). Interestingly enough, however, the Book of Mormon does mention a monetary system that has remarkable Old World parallels.

This has been frequently addressed, but anti-Mormons simply ignore the evidence and keep repeating the same claim.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Book of Mormon anachronisms:Coins|No coins in Book of Mormon]]
*"The Numerical Elegance of the Nephite System": [http://farms.byu.edu/jbms/8_2_1999_chart2.html Table 1] and [http://farms.byu.edu/jbms/8_2_1999_chart1.html Table 2], ''Journal of Book of Mormon Studies'' 8/2 (1999)
*{{JBMS-8-2-6}}
*{{JBMS-8-2-5}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "According to the Book of Mormon" the "hill Cumorah" was "in Palmyra, N.Y...." and the "Church won't even commit itself to a map of where the Book of Mormon was supposed to have happened."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The Book of Mormon doesn't tell us that Cumorah was in New York. And, contrary to what many people have believed, the Book of Mormon doesn't tell us where Moroni buried the plates. We do know, however, that all the plates ''except'' the Book of Mormon plates were buried in Cumorah. The term "Cumorah" was given to the hill in N.Y. by early Latter-day Saints, not the Book of Mormon.

Why is there no official map? The location of Book of Mormon events hasn't been revealed. Why is there no offical map designating the exact location of Jesus' birth (which is debated among biblical scholars)? Why is there no official map designating the precise location of Mt. Sinai? It doesn't seem necessary for God to reveal all geographical information in order for a text to qualify as the Word of God.

The video's double standards are again on display.

'''To read more:'''
*[[Archaeology and the Hill Cumorah]]
*[[Book of Mormon geography:Statements:First Presidency Letter|No official position on Nephite Cumorah location]]
*[[Book of Mormon geography:New World#The Hill Cumorah|Textual evidence about Cumorah's location]]
* {{DVDWitnessingRepeats}}
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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/DNA

2007-03-23T19:59:11Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|DNA}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
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{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Prisoners are routinely freed from crimes they supposedly committed many years before when scientific experts prove conclusively that the DNA found on the victim did not match the DNA of the convict."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The DVD hopes that the reader will be impressed by the legal use of DNA (which is very precise) and assume that the science as (mis)applied to the Book of Mormon is equally solid.

The DVD did not, of course, mention the work of Dr. John M. Butler, PhD. Dr. Butler is an internationally-renowed expert in the use of DNA for forensic work, and a member of the FBI’s Scientific Working Group on DNA Analysis Methods (SWGDAM). (See Dr. Butler's CV [http://www.cstl.nist.gov/biotech/strbase/butler.htm here].) He is also an LDS bishop.

He literally "wrote the textbook" used to train law enforcement personnel on DNA:

*Butler, J.M. (2001) ''Forensic DNA Typing: Biology and Technology behind STR Markers''. Academic Press, London, 335 pages
*Butler, J.M. (2005) ''Forensic DNA Typing: Biology, Technology, and Genetics of STR Markers'' (2nd Edition). Elsevier Academic Press, New York, 688 pages.

Dr. Butler utterly rejects the implied claim that 'DNA works for crime scenes, so it should work for the Book of Mormon.' And, he should know better than anyone—especially those responsible for the superficial and dishonest treatment of DNA science in ''Search for the Truth''.

'''To read more:'''
* {{JBMS-12-1-4}}
* {{FR-18-1-6}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "The introduction to the Book of Mormon says after thousands of years all were destroyed except the Lamanites and they are the principle ancestors of the American Indians." - Pamela Robertson</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The introduction to the Book of Mormon is not part of the scripture. Elder Bruce R. McConkie, who helped write the introduction and other aids for the current edition of the scriptures was quite clear that the non-scriptural textual items were helps, not canon, and even granted they could well contain mistakes. This likely applies to the introduction, which was only inserted in 1981. (See: {{DoR|start=250, 289|end=290}})

It is significant that Ms. Robertson appeals to something that is ''not'' in the Book of Mormon. She hopes she can settle the matter without even addressing the Book of Mormon text itself!

It is true that some LDS members and leaders have believed that the Book of Mormon teaches that all Amerindians are entirely descended from Book of Mormon peoples. But, as early as 1928, a completely different view was taught in General Conference by Elder Levi Edgar Young:

:''There must be a clear distinction, it grows every year more evident, ''between the origins of America's ancient people and the sources of their culture.'' The human material of the pre- Columbian societies probably came from Asia by way of Alaska, the orthodox route long accepted for the American Indians...Among many social belongings abandoned along the route seem to have been most of the things called intellectual. The men and women who peopled America arrived, intellectually, with the clothes they stood in...Dr. Uhle urges an alternative [theory for how high culture arose in the Americas]...Occasional cultured mariners from India, China, Japan or other lands may have landed, he believes, few in numbers, but full of ideas, to bring to the rude American societies...just the hint that culture was possible. ''Small numerically as this source of inspiration must have been, it may conceivably have been the seed from which sprouted the great achievements of Peru and Central America...
::<small>—{{CR|title=No title|author=Levi Edgar Young|date=October 1928|start=103|end=106, italics added}}</small>

Clearly, Elder Young did not feel that there was any "official" or "required" view of what percentage of American Indians are Lamanites—Church members are not bound by the interpretations of men, but only by what the scripture ''says.''

Why did early members assume that the Amerindians were all from the Lamanites? In the 19th century, it was “common knowledge” that the Indians were a single racial group, and so most likely to have a single origin. Since the Book of Mormon taught that at least some Indians must have come from Israel, it was a natural conclusion to see them all as coming from Israel. Most early Saints likely did not even conceive of there being multiple “groups” of Indians at all. To explain some was to explain them all.

As members came to understand the variety of Amerindian groups, it became easier for them to read the Book of Mormon text without the "one Indian only" bias that came from their culture.

Simply put, despite the claims of Pamela Robertson, the Church has no official position on the matter. When asked, a spokesman for the Church said:

:''As to whether these were the first inhabitants...we don't have a position on that. Our scripture does not try to account for any other people who may have lived in the New World before, during or after the days of the Jaredites and the Nephites, and we don't have any official doctrine about who the descendants of the Nephites and the Jaredites are. Many Mormons believe that American Indians are descendants of the Lamanites [a division of the Nephites], but that's not in the scripture.''
::<small>—Stewart Reid, LDS Public Relations Staff, quoted by William J. Bennetta in ''The Textbook Letter'' (March-April 1997), published by The Textbook League (P.O. Box 51, Sausalito, California 94966).</small>

Note too that both the public affairs statement—and Elder Young's talk!—came well before any DNA attacks on the Book of Mormon. These are not, as some critics have complained, attempts to hide from DNA 'science.'

'''To read more:'''
* [[Amerindians as Lamanites:Summary|American Indians as Lamanites]] (short summary version)
* [[Amerindians as Lamanites|American Indians as Lamanites]] (longer version)

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "The Lamanites are described by Joseph as ancestors to the Israelites inhabiting all of North and South America from sea to sea." - Pamela Robertson</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Ms. Robertson really has not done her homework!

In fact, Joseph Smith modified his ideas about Book of Mormon geography over the course of his life, indicating that he had no more information on the matter than the other members did.

And, despite her desire to speak for the Church, Ms. Robertson will have to be disappointed again when she learns that the Church has no official position on Book of Mormon geography, because it has not been revealed:

:''The First Presidency has often been asked to prepare some suggestive map illustrative of Nephite geography, but have never consented to do so. Nor are we acquainted with any of the Twelve Apostles who would undertake such a task. The reason is, that without further information they are not prepared even to suggest [a map]. The word of the Lord or the translation of other ancient records is required to clear up many points now so obscure.''
::<small>—{{JInstructor|author=George Q. Cannon|article=Editorial Thoughts: The Book of Mormon Geography|vol=25|num=1|date=1 January 1890)|start=18|end=19}}</small>

Elder Anthony Ivins of the First Presidency would later confirm this stance:

:''There is a great deal of talk about the geography of the Book of Mormon. Where was the land of Zarahemla? Where was the City of Zarahemla? and other geographic matters. It does not make any difference to us. There has never been anything yet set forth that definitely settles that question. So the Church says we are just waiting until we discover the truth. All kinds of theories have been advanced. I have talked with at least half a dozen men that have found the very place where the City of Zarahemla stood, and notwithstanding the fact that they profess to be Book of Mormon students, they vary a thousand miles apart in the places they have located. We do not offer any definite solution. As you study the Book of Mormon keep these things in mind and do not make definite statements concerning things that have not been proven in advance to be true.''
::<small>—{{CR1|author=Anthony W. Ivins|date=April 1929|start=16}}</small>

And, the present-day Church repeated it in the ''Encyclopedia of Mormonism'':

:''The Church has not taken an official position with regard to location of geographical places [of the Book of Mormon].''
::<small>—{{EoM1|author=John E. Clark|article=Book of Mormon Geography|vol=1|start=178}}</small>

The First Presidency gets to determine official LDS teaching, not Ms. Robertson or the DVD producers.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Book of Mormon geography:Statements#1840s|Joseph Smith's adaptable views on geography]]
* [[Book of Mormon geography:New World|Book of Mormon geography: New World]]
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">If it could be proven absolutely that the American Indians were not descendants of the Lamanites then Joseph Smith perpetrated a gigantic fraud...such irrefutable evidence has been found using one of our strongest technological discoveries—DNA.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

This wildly irresponsible claim fails on numerous grounds:

* ''What are we looking for?'' Lehi and his family are clearly not ''Jews'', but descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh. What does this DNA look like? What are we comparing to?
* ''What does Jewish DNA look like?'' Despite the critics' claims, attempts to use genetic testing to trace known groups (such as Jews) through history have been problematical.
* ''What studies were done?'' The video does not want the viewer to know that they base their arguments on DNA data that has never been shown to be even relevant to the issue of Book of Mormon genetics, let alone conclusive. Such critics have cobbled together DNA data gathered from unrelated studies to produce arguments with the appearance of scientific weight but having no real significance. ''No genetic studies have been designed and performed to test the hypothesis that Native Americans were of Lehite descent and that this inheritance is detectable today.''

'''To read more:'''
* [[Book of Mormon and DNA evidence:Summary|DNA and the Book of Mormon]] (shorter summary article)
* [[Book of Mormon and DNA evidence|DNA and the Book of Mormon]] (longer article)
* [[Book of Mormon and DNA evidence#What are we looking for.3F|What are we looking for?]]
* [[Book of Mormon and DNA evidence#What Jewish DNA.3F|What Jewish DNA?]]
* [[Book of Mormon and DNA evidence#Initial considerations|What studies?]]
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "When the Y-chromosomes or mitochondrial DNA are tested in hundreds of even thousands of individuals from two different races the results can be compared to see how similar or dissimilar these intact DNA markers are between people groups."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Once again, the science is distorted almost beyond recognition when this is applied to the Book of Mormon

'''Y-chromosomes'''

Despite claims that Y-chromosome data do not support Book of Mormon claims, there are some markers which should be considered in another light:

:''Douglas Forbes points out that Y-chromosome SNP biallelic marker Q-P36 (also known by the mutation marker M-242), postulated by geneticist Doron Behar and colleagues to be a founding lineage among Ashkenazi Jewish populations, is also found in Iranian and Iraqi Jews and is a founding lineage group present in 31 percent of self-identified Native Americans in the U.S.''
::<small>—See "Y-Chromosome Data," in {{FR-18-1-7}}</small>

The DVD is either not up to date on the science, or is bearing false witness.

'''Mitochondrial DNA'''

Mitochondrial DNA is passed only from mothers to their children. It has been used in attacks on the Book of Mormon, and yet even known ''Jewish'' populations do not share mtDNA. That is, some groups that are both ''known to be Jewish'' do not share any mitochondrial DNA. So, how can this count against an Ephraim or Manasseh origin for some Amerindians?

'''To read more:'''
* [[Book of Mormon and DNA evidence#Mitochondrial DNA .28mDNA.29|Y-chromosome issues]]
* [[Book of Mormon and DNA evidence#Mitochondrial DNA .28mDNA.29|Mitochondrial DNA issues]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "The DNA issue of whether Native Americans come from a Hebrew descent is not an issue. Once you get outside of Mormonism it is not an issue, it is not a debate. Nobody is debating out in the scientific realm of whether or not Native Americans came from Israelites. Nobody. Or Middle-Easterners. Nobody." - Joel Kramer, Director, Living Hope Ministries </h2>
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Despite the implication, no informed person in LDS circles is expecting DNA data to be able to prove a Middle Eastern origin for Amerindians ''either''. Latter-day Saint authors do not consider it to be something which could be proven ''or'' disproven by current genetic methods.

As Michael F. Whiting, Ph.D (an LDS genetics scientist at BYU) noted:

:''I...serve as a member of a scientific review panel for the Systematic Biology program of the National Science Foundation. The NSF is a major source of basic research funding available to scientists in the United States, and every six months the NSF brings in a panel of researchers to review grant applications and provide recommendations for funding...Would a proposal to test the validity of the Book of Mormon by means of DNA sequence information have a sufficiently solid base in science to ever be competitive in receiving funding from a nationally peer-reviewed scientific funding agency such as the NSF?...Is testing the Book of Mormon by means of genetic information a fundable research project? I do not think so...it is very unclear what would constitute sufficient evidence to reject the hypothesis that the Lamanite lineages were derived from Middle Eastern lineages, since there are so many assumptions that must be met and so many complications that we are not yet capable of sifting through.'' [From Whiting's paper below.]

The critics are the only ones claiming that DNA can do things that it can't. Members of the Church do not make the same error.

'''To read more:'''
* {{JBMS-12-1-3}}
* {{JBMS-9-2-11}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">What does DNA say about conservative Christian beliefs?</h2>
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A question that is definitely ''not'' asked by the video is what DNA can say about the beliefs of conservative Protestant Christians. This is not surprising, because it is not a pretty picture.

Fundamentalist Christian critics are happy to use DNA as a stick to beat the Book of Mormon, but do not tell their viewers that there is much ''stronger'' DNA evidence for concepts which fundamentalist Christian readers might not accept, such as:

* evolutionary change in species
* human descent from other primates

And, despite being inconsistent with DNA data, fundamentalist critics do not call on their congregations to abandon such literalistic Biblical concepts as:

* the earth being only 6,000 years old
* a Biblical Adam and Eve were the parents of all humanity only 4,000 years before Christ
* a world-wide, Noachian flood which exterminated all life except that which was in the Ark, occurred approximately 5,000 years ago

The critics are often hypocritical—they claim the Saints should abandon the Book of Mormon on flimsy, dubious science, and yet do not tell their audience that ''they'' should (by the same logic) abandon religious beliefs of their own that have much ''more'' DNA evidence against them. For example, the producers of this DVD enlist the assistance of Dr. John Whitcomb, a founder of modern creationism, a staunch advocate of a young earth, and an oppenent of evolution. Ironically, the very DNA science that this video claims to refute the Book of Mormon, would more easily refute many of the beliefs held by Dr. Whitcomb (see Dr. Whitcomb here: )

'''To read more:'''

* {{FR-15-2-1}} 
* {{FR-18-1-7}} 

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Modern scientists have conclusively proven Joseph to be a deceiver in his allegation that the Indians were descendants of the Hebrews."</h2>
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This claim is utterly false, as demonstrated. The DVD producers are either scientifically incompetent, or being dishonest.

Genetics is a complex subject. Applying genetic data to the Book of Mormon also requires a thorough understanding of the Book of Mormon text. The video has not even attempted to provide viewers with the required background in the Book of Mormon ''or'' genetics needed to evaluate the genetics arguments for themselves.

Many authors with the needed training—including world-class experts in the use of forensic DNA—have dissected the DNA arguments offered by the critics, and found them lacking. The video's claims are wholly without scientific merit.

Rather, the DVD hopes that readers will simply trust them to be honest and get the science right. But, as we have seen, that trust would be gravely misplaced.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Template:DNAPortal|Extensive DNA resources]]
* {{tg|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai195.html|topic=DNA}}
* [http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/dna.php?selection=dna&cat=dna FARMS DNA papers]
* {{DVDWitnessingRepeats}}
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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/The Good Test

2007-03-23T19:09:22Z

MikeAsh:

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Call to Leaders

2007-03-23T17:00:29Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Call to LDS Leaders}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">This portion of the video calls for LDS leaders to stop the supposed deception of Mormonism.

"You’d be the hero of all time to the LDS people if you finally admitted Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Beloved you know that. That Mormonism is not true. The Book of Mormon is not true. Joseph Smith is not true. Joseph Smith deceived you and deceived your people. Don’t go on with this deception. So we pray of you, Mormon leaders, have the courage to admit that you’re wrong." (Floyd McElveen)

This implies that leaders actually know that Joseph Smith was a fraud and that the Book of Mormon is false, and that LDS leaders simply need to ''admit'' the decption and take the steps necessary to lead Mormons out of the Church and instead to Christ.</h2>
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The implication that LDS leaders actually know that the Mormonism is false has become fashionable in some anti-Mormon circles. This claim is designed to add credibility to the anti-Mormon accusation that the LDS Church is not only wrong, but deceptive. Most critics know that the greatest damage can be done to an LDS testimony if a member comes to believe that the Church (or LDS leaders) is deceitful or hiding something. Many people handle conflicting information without jeopardizing their testimonies, but most people can't handle the feeling of being lied to. Generally, once someone feels that the Church has deceived them, they are no longer willing to examine rebuttals to anti-Mormon accusations. Critics are keenly aware that in many (if not most) instances it is not the anti-LDS information itself that generally makes people leave, but it's the perception that the information was "hidden." It is the feelings of deception and betrayal that ultimately drive people out the Church.

The fact is, however, that LDS leaders give of their time (a tremendous amount of time) and talents, because they love Christ, they love God's children, and they believe that the Church is true. Many LDS leaders give up lucrative professions and sacrifice time they could be spending in retirement or with family, to dedicate themselves to the Restored Gospel. They really believe in the the teachings of the Church and they labor continuously leading people to Christ and the fulness of the Gospel as found the latter-day church that Christ restored.

See: http://www.lds.org/languages/LivingChrist/LivingChristEnglish.pdf

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Call to Leaders

2007-03-23T16:57:52Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Call to LDS Leaders}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">This portion of the video calls for LDS leaders to stop the supposed deception of Mormonism.

"You’d be the hero of all time to the LDS people if you finally admitted Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Beloved you know that. That Mormonism is not true. The Book of Mormon is not true. Joseph Smith is not true. Joseph Smith deceived you and deceived your people. Don’t go on with this deception. So we pray of you, Mormon leaders, have the courage to admit that you’re wrong." (Floyd McElveen)

This implies that leaders actually know that Joseph Smith was a fraud and that the Book of Mormon is false, and that LDS leaders simply need to ''admit'' the decption and take the steps necessary to lead Mormons out of the Church and instead to Christ.</h2>
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The implication that LDS leaders actually know that the Mormonism is false has become fashionable in some anti-Mormon circles. This claim is designed to add credibility to the anti-Mormon accusation that the LDS Church is not only wrong, but deceptive. Most critics know that the greatest damage can be done to an LDS testimony if a member comes to believe that the Church (or LDS leaders) is deceitful or hiding something. Many people handle conflicting information without jeopardizing their testimonies, but most people can't handle the feeling of being lied to. Generally, once someone feels that the Church has deceived them, they are no longer willing to examine rebuttals to anti-Mormon accusations. Critics are keenly aware that in many (if not most) instances it is not the anti-LDS information itself that generally makes people leave, but it's the perception that the information was "hidden." It is the feelings of deception and betrayal that ultimately drive people out the Church.

The fact is, however, that LDS leaders give of their time (a tremendous amount of time) and talents, because they love Christ, they love God's children, and they believe that the Church is true. Many LDS leaders give up lucrative professions and sacrifice time they could be spending in retirement or with family, to dedicate themselves to the Restored Gospel. They really believe in the the teachings of the Church and they labor continuously leading people to Christ and the fulness of the Gospel as found the latter-day church that Christ restored.

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/The Good Test

2007-03-23T16:57:06Z

MikeAsh:

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Music Video

2007-03-23T16:51:27Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Music Video}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">A very nice music video showing some of God's wonderful creations and a few text-overlay quotations from the Bible reminding us that it is through Christ that we are saved. "Give Me Jesus" is sung by Stephanie LeBarge.</h2>
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We appreciate the reminder of the God's beautiful creations and that accepting Christ is the path to happiness both in this life and life after death. This portion of the video is well-done, includes some gorgeous scenery and lovely music, and we certainly agree with the Bible quotations that admonish us to seek and follow Christ.

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/The Good Test

2007-03-23T16:50:04Z

MikeAsh:

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Credits

2007-03-23T13:58:43Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Credits}}

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The credits list people associated with the production of the video. There is one section of the credits, entitled '''Special Thanks,''' that lists people who provided commentary on the video.
It may be helpful to those viewing the video to know a little more about some of these people—more than what you will discover through the video itself. We are sure that the video's producers, who want people to know more about the "true" Joseph Smith, won't mind if others know more about the people they have selected as experts on Mormonism.

Individuals are highlighted, below, in alphabetical order.

! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Marvin Cowan</h2>
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Marvin is the director or owner of Utah Christian Publications. This organization sells exclusivly anti Mormon books and material. Many of the books sold by UCP are written by the other people listed in the credits of this DVD.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Gallatin</h2>
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Scott Gallatin is the pastor of Calvary Chapel Finger Lakes in Farmington, New York.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dennis and Rauni Higley</h2>
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Dennis and Rauni Higley are anti-Mormons living in Sandy, Utah. Rauni is originally a Finnish citizen and served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. Dennis is an American who also served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. They eventually met and were married in Utah. While working as a translator for the LDS Church, Rauni began to doubt its teachings. Her husband eventually followed suit. Together, they left the Church in the 1980s and became Evangelical Christians. They later established HIS (He is Savior) Ministries.

:The Higleys have been highly influenced by the Evangelical countercult arguments of the 1980s. During Rauni's stay in Finland in 1984, for example, she was instrumental in the inception of a highly sensationalistic article on the Mormons in a religious magazine. The material was heavily drawn from arguments in the book and movie ''The God Makers,'' with in-temple screenshots provided as illustrations. Some of the article’s statements convey the mood: "The truth is kept secret on purpose. It is not meant but for the few and chosen, for Mormonism is a pagan religion tied to secret doctrines, mysteries, and occultism. On its most secret levels, a Luciferian doctrine is unveiled as the background...Mormonism is based on a secret for the simple reason of the truth being too gruesome for a normal, ordinary person. Joseph Smith founded his religion based on completely mindboggling tales."
::<small>—Kim Östman, "An International Perspective: Opposition to Mormonism in Finland, 1845-2006" (presentation at the 2006 FAIR Conference).</small>

In 2004 the Higleys wrote a thirty-page booklet, ''The Truth about Mormonism,'' published by The Berean Call, a ministry outlet closely associated with Dave Hunt.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Tim and Karen Howard</h2>
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Tim and Karen Howard are former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dave Hunt</h2>
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Dave Hunt has been actively involved in the self-styled countercult movement for over two decades. He is the coauthor, with Ed Decker, of both the original and the "updated and expanded" version of ''The God Makers.'' According to common marketing hype, he is "an internationally recognized cult expert." The 1984 edition says he's the author of 10 books in 20 languages, and the 1994 edition gives him "20-plus books [with] combined sales of more than 3 million copies."

This, of course, still does not answer who Mr. Hunt really is—what credentials he has to speak to Christianity in general and Mormonism in particular. Mr. Hunt's lack of credentials have been problematic to many, if not to the video's producers.

In commenting on the "problem of authority and credibility" within the Christian countercult movement (of which ''Search for the Truth'' is a product), one non-LDS scholar comments specifically on Dave Hunt's place within the movement:

:Robert Wise begins his critique of ''The Seduction of Christianity'' in what seems an obvious, if often overlooked, place: who are Dave Hunt and Thomas Aloysius McMahon? Noting that "Hunt and McMahon define truth in a way peculiar to themselves," Wise continues: "We are never told who Hunt and McMahon are nor what credentials they have. Apparentlyl Hunt is a self-certified authority on cults" (1986: 40). DeMar and Leithart complain similarly: "That Dave Hunt, a man with a bachelor's degree in mathematics, is now the most prominent theologian of the dispensationalist movement...indicates the extent of the crisis" (1988: xvii).
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 199.</small>

Mr. Hunt's work relative to ''The God Makers'' was characterized by the non-Mormon US National Council of Christians and Jews as follows:

:"The Godmakers" ... does not, in our opinion, fairly portray the Mormon Church, Mormon belief, or Mormon history. It makes extensive use of 'half-truth', faulty generalizations, erroneous interpretations, and sensationalism…not reflective of the genuine spirit of the Mormon faith...It appears to us to be a basically unfair and untruthful presentation of what Mormons really believe and practice.''
::<small>— National Council of Christians and Jews, "Programs in Pluralism," April 1994.</small>{{link|url=http://www.lightplanet.com/response/nccj.htm}}

Mr. Hunt believes that his version of Christianity is the only true version, and that all those who disagree are following religions that have their roots in Satanism. Included in his cadre of false religions (besides Mormonism) is Roman Catholicism. According to one non-Mormon observer,

:[Hunt] presents the darkest possible version of Roman Catholic history, laying responsibility squarely at Rome's door for, among other things, the rise of Nazism in Germany (elsewhere he claims Hinduism is responsible; cf. Hunt 1983); the implementation of the Final Solution (Hunt 1994:265-93); and the Ustaschi (Croat) massacres of Yugoslavian Serbs in teh early 1940s (Hunt 1994: 297-307). For Hunt...the syllogism is simple: Because there were at least nominal Catholics involved in these attrocities, therefore the Roman Catholic Church as an institution supported and encouraged their actions--a convenient, monocausal explanation for these various attrocities.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187.</small>

Hunt's intolerant views don't extend solely to those in other religions. The same author goes on to describe his overtly misogynistic tendendencies:

:For Hunt there is no doubt that the Roman Catholic Church plays a pivotal role in the end-times drama. She is the "Great Whore of Babylon," allegedly prophesied in the Revelation to St. John (17:3-6)—the "woman who rides the beast." For Hunt, as well, there is no doubt why it is a ''woman'' who rides the beast.
::Worldwide, today's women are asserting themselves as never before in history. Contrary to popular opinion, "women instigate more domestic violence [and] hit men more frequently and more severely [than men hit them]" and violence is far more frequent in lesbian relationships than between husband and wife. Women are taking over what were once men's jobs, and there is a growing acceptance of women at the highest levels of leadershipin business, government, and religion. Only God could have given John, 1900 years ago, a vision that so fits out day—a ''woman'' in control. From current trends, it seems inevitable that a ''woman'' must ride the beast. (Hunt 1994: 456; glosses and emphasis in the original)
:There are two points of interest here, one methodological, the other substantive. First, while arguments like this surface from time to time, Hunt's [sic] takes his citation of domestic violence statistics from ''USA Today'' (June 29, 1994; Hunt 1994: 541 n.20) rather than a recognized research source. In addition, as is often the case, Hunt misrepresents the reference he does use. On that date, ''USA Today'' published three articles related to domestic violence—none of which contain the statistics Hunt cites, and two of which contain information in direct contradition to it. Second, one is led to wonder about Hunt's thinly veiled misogynism, given that his chief candidate for the Whore of Bablylon is a church that has yet to ordain its first woman priest.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187-188.</small>

'''To read more:'''
* Gilbert W. Scharffs, "The Truth About 'The Godmakers'" (a line-by-line refutation) {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/}}
* Craig L. Foster, "Old Themes and Stereotypes Never Die: The Unchanging Ways of Anti-Mormons," {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/conf/2003FosC.html}}
* Robert Brown and Rosemary Brown, ''They Lie In Wait to Deceive: Vol. 4'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fair-lds.org/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FAIR-TLIW4}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Johnson</h2>
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Scott Johnson is the "Producer" for Living Hope Ministries, a "Ministry," lead by Joel Kramer, which produces anti Mormon DVDs.

'''To read more'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Joel Kramer</h2>
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Joel Kramer is the Director of Living Hope Ministries from Brigham City, Utah. Their mission statement is: "Living Hope Ministries exists to share biblical truths with Mormons, and to educate and equip Christian individuals, ministries and churches to reach Mormons for the biblical Jesus Christ. " Living Hope Ministries have produced several anti Mormon DVDs.

Joel has been recently arrested for disorderly conduct as he refused to comply with a police officer as he was allegedly unlawfully video taping an LDS pagent. Of course just being arrested may not mean anything, but it certainly was important to the writers of this DVD when talking about Joseph Smith. Since it was so important to them, we thought it only fair to include it here.

'''To read more:'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Charles Larson</h2>
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Larson is the author of the well-known but deeply flawed anti-Mormon book <i>"By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus": A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri</i>. This book has been reviewed by LDS Egyptologists who hold degrees in the field. One reviewer summed up Larson's work:

:''Larson's historical method is as follows: Invent evidence, read minds, attribute motives, misquote sources, argue from circumstantial evidence—or better yet—argue from no evidence....''
:''If Larson stumbles as a historian, he falls flat on his face as an Egyptologist. He betrays no knowledge of any foreign language, yet offers to guide us through Egyptian, "a unique area of study that is extremely difficult to master."''
:<small>—John Gee, "A Tragedy of Errors," p. 99.</small>

The only qualifications listed for Larson at his publisher's web site are "former Mormon and Brigham Young University graduate." If the producers of the video can dismiss trained Egyptologists only because they are Mormon, is it reasonable to likewise dismiss critics like Larson because of his religious beliefs? Or should we add to those critical religious beliefs the fact that he is not trained in Egyptology at all? The producers willingly apply a double standard here.

'''To read more:'''
*{{FR-4-1-15}}
*{{FR-4-1-16}}
*[[Charles Larson|Reviews of Charles Larson]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Living Hope Ministries</h2>
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Living Hope Ministries is a Utah-based anti-Mormon ministry. They exist solely to lead Latter-day Saints out of Mormonism and to prevent other people from becoming Mormons. To accomplish their goals they have produced and distributed several anti-Mormon videos and plan on doing even more.

Their videos display the same superficiality, lack of respect, and dishonesty as ''Search for the Truth''.

* '''To read more:'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Brian Mackert</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Brian J. Mackert was born a member of the FLDS church, which believes that the LDS Church is in apostasy. According to his online biography, his great grandfather was excommunicated from the LDS Church in 1934 after publishing a book in support of polygamy, and his grandparents were excommunicated because they "would not comply with the current LDS Churches [sic] position on polygamy."

After going through a spiritual crisis in his late teens, Mackert abandoned the FLDS church and joined the LDS Church right after he entered the Marine Corps. Within a year, in his words, "I became aware that I could never say with full confidence that the LDS Church was the true church. There were too many doubts that I had..." Shortly thereafter he stopped attending the LDS Church and became converted to born-again Evangelical Christianity and started attending local Baptist churches.

According to Brian's Web site:

:''Brian is now a licensed minister working in Prison Ministry preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ and sharing the forgiveness that only comes through the shed blood of Jesus Christ with prisoners and especially sex offenders.''
:''Brian is available upon request to give presenations concerning the beliefs, practices of Mormons and to give witnessing tips for those wanting to reach the Mormon People with the true gospel of Jesus Christ.''

One must wonder how much expertise one could gain in Mormonism after being raised in a different church and only belonging to the LDS Church for approximately a year.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jon McCartney</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Jon McCartney is pastor of the First Baptist Church in Tooele, Utah.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Floyd McElveen</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Floyd McElveen wrote a book that was distributed in Utah about 20 years ago. On the cover it says ''God's Word, Final, Infallible and Forever'', but inside it is actually 3 different books written by Floyd: the one on the cover, ''The Mormon Illusion'', and ''From Mormon Illusion to God's Love''. The book was published by Gospel Truths Ministries in Grand Rapids, MI. In the author bio it says he "is the national evangelist for the Conservative Baptist Home Mission Society."

McElveen also contributed a chapter to Charles Larson's flawed and inadequate ''By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus''.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Roger Oakland</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Roger Oakland is with Understanding the Times International. He has a number of articles at the Website including many that attack Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, science, and New Age religious movements.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Phil Roberts</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Phil Roberts is president of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, in Kansas City. He has written or contributed to at least two anti-Mormon books—''Mormonism Unmasked'' and ''The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism.'' (The latter he wrote with Francis J. Beckwith, Norman Geisler, Ron Rhodes, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner.)

Roberts served as director of the Interfaith Witness Department of the North American Mission Board for the Southern Baptist Convention where, in 1998, he was responsible for producing the video ''The Mormon Puzzle.'' Roberts has also authored several other articles that are clearly anti-Mormon in tone and focus.

'''To read more:'''
* {{FR-10-1-12}}
* {{FR-18-2-189}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Sandra Tanner</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Sandra Tanner and her late husband, Jerald Tanner, are certainly among the most prolific anti-Mormon authors. However, non-Mormon scholars of LDS issues have noted that the Tanners display a consistent bias in their work:

:''[The Tanners] always assume the worst possible motives in assessing the actions of Mormon leaders, even when those leaders faced extremely complex problems with no simple solutions.... Every bit of evidence, even if it could be most plausibly presented in a positive way, is represented as yet another nail in the coffin being prepared for the Mormon Church. There is no spectrum of colors, only blacks and whites, good guys and villains in the Tanners' published writings.... The Tanners have repeatedly assumed a holier-than-thou stance, refusing to be fair in applying the same debate standards of absolute rectitude which they demand of Mormonism to their own actions, writings, and beliefs.''
::<small>—{{Dialogue1|author=Lawrence Foster|article=Career Apostates:Reflections on the Works of Jerald and Sandra Tanner|vol=17|num=2|date=Summer 1984|start=45|end=46}}</small>

Sandra Tanner's research is agenda-driven and unreliable. Sincere seekers of the truth about Latter-day Saint beliefs and history deserve more reliable sources.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Jerald_and_Sandra_Tanner|Reviews of Jerald and Sandra Tanner]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Chip Thompson</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Chip Thompson director of Tri-Grace Ministries in Ephraim, UT. Tri-Grace Ministries runs a college house facility, which is "intended to be safe haven for all Christian students who attend Snow College." His advisory board includes:
:Bill Mckeever, (Mormon Research Ministries, Sandy, UT)
:Luke Wilson, (Institute for Religious Research, Grand Rapids, MI)
:Keith Walker, (Evidence Ministries, San Antonio, TX)
:Bob Betts, (Board Member, Concerned Christians, Mesa, AZ)
:Timothy Oliver, (Utah Director, Watchman Fellowship, Santaquin, UT)

It is curious that a facility for college students should have a board composed entirely of professional anti-Mormons.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">John Whitcomb</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Dr. John Whitcomb, Th.D., is president of Whitcomb Ministries and former professor of Theology and Old Testament studies at Graceland Theological Seminary. Whitcomb is also co-author of ''The Genesis Flood'' which helped play a founding role in the modern "Creation Science" movement (although Whitcomb is a theologian rather than a scientist). Whitcomb believes in a young earth, a global flood, and an inerrant Bible that should be intepreted literally. He also claims that there were 1,000 different kinds of dinosaurs on the ark and he is critical of not only evolution, but also of progressive creationism and intelligent design.

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Credits

2007-03-23T13:56:29Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Credits}}

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The credits list people associated with the production of the video. There is one section of the credits, entitled '''Special Thanks,''' that lists people who provided commentary on the video.
It may be helpful to those viewing the video to know a little more about some of these people—more than what you will discover through the video itself. We are sure that the video's producers, who want people to know more about the "true" Joseph Smith, won't mind if others know more about the people they have selected as experts on Mormonism.

Individuals are highlighted, below, in alphabetical order.

! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Marvin Cowan</h2>
|-
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Marvin is the director or owner of Utah Christian Publications. This organization sells exclusivly anti Mormon books and material. Many of the books sold by UCP are written by the other people listed in the credits of this DVD.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Gallatin</h2>
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Scott Gallatin is the pastor of Calvary Chapel Finger Lakes in Farmington, New York.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dennis and Rauni Higley</h2>
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Dennis and Rauni Higley are anti-Mormons living in Sandy, Utah. Rauni is originally a Finnish citizen and served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. Dennis is an American who also served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. They eventually met and were married in Utah. While working as a translator for the LDS Church, Rauni began to doubt its teachings. Her husband eventually followed suit. Together, they left the Church in the 1980s and became Evangelical Christians. They later established HIS (He is Savior) Ministries.

:The Higleys have been highly influenced by the Evangelical countercult arguments of the 1980s. During Rauni's stay in Finland in 1984, for example, she was instrumental in the inception of a highly sensationalistic article on the Mormons in a religious magazine. The material was heavily drawn from arguments in the book and movie ''The God Makers,'' with in-temple screenshots provided as illustrations. Some of the article’s statements convey the mood: "The truth is kept secret on purpose. It is not meant but for the few and chosen, for Mormonism is a pagan religion tied to secret doctrines, mysteries, and occultism. On its most secret levels, a Luciferian doctrine is unveiled as the background...Mormonism is based on a secret for the simple reason of the truth being too gruesome for a normal, ordinary person. Joseph Smith founded his religion based on completely mindboggling tales."
::<small>—Kim Östman, "An International Perspective: Opposition to Mormonism in Finland, 1845-2006" (presentation at the 2006 FAIR Conference).</small>

In 2004 the Higleys wrote a thirty-page booklet, ''The Truth about Mormonism,'' published by The Berean Call, a ministry outlet closely associated with Dave Hunt.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Tim and Karen Howard</h2>
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Tim and Karen Howard are former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dave Hunt</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Dave Hunt has been actively involved in the self-styled countercult movement for over two decades. He is the coauthor, with Ed Decker, of both the original and the "updated and expanded" version of ''The God Makers.'' According to common marketing hype, he is "an internationally recognized cult expert." The 1984 edition says he's the author of 10 books in 20 languages, and the 1994 edition gives him "20-plus books [with] combined sales of more than 3 million copies."

This, of course, still does not answer who Mr. Hunt really is—what credentials he has to speak to Christianity in general and Mormonism in particular. Mr. Hunt's lack of credentials have been problematic to many, if not to the video's producers.

In commenting on the "problem of authority and credibility" within the Christian countercult movement (of which ''Search for the Truth'' is a product), one non-LDS scholar comments specifically on Dave Hunt's place within the movement:

:Robert Wise begins his critique of ''The Seduction of Christianity'' in what seems an obvious, if often overlooked, place: who are Dave Hunt and Thomas Aloysius McMahon? Noting that "Hunt and McMahon define truth in a way peculiar to themselves," Wise continues: "We are never told who Hunt and McMahon are nor what credentials they have. Apparentlyl Hunt is a self-certified authority on cults" (1986: 40). DeMar and Leithart complain similarly: "That Dave Hunt, a man with a bachelor's degree in mathematics, is now the most prominent theologian of the dispensationalist movement...indicates the extent of the crisis" (1988: xvii).
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 199.</small>

Mr. Hunt's work relative to ''The God Makers'' was characterized by the non-Mormon US National Council of Christians and Jews as follows:

:"The Godmakers" ... does not, in our opinion, fairly portray the Mormon Church, Mormon belief, or Mormon history. It makes extensive use of 'half-truth', faulty generalizations, erroneous interpretations, and sensationalism…not reflective of the genuine spirit of the Mormon faith...It appears to us to be a basically unfair and untruthful presentation of what Mormons really believe and practice.''
::<small>— National Council of Christians and Jews, "Programs in Pluralism," April 1994.</small>{{link|url=http://www.lightplanet.com/response/nccj.htm}}

Mr. Hunt believes that his version of Christianity is the only true version, and that all those who disagree are following religions that have their roots in Satanism. Included in his cadre of false religions (besides Mormonism) is Roman Catholicism. According to one non-Mormon observer,

:[Hunt] presents the darkest possible version of Roman Catholic history, laying responsibility squarely at Rome's door for, among other things, the rise of Nazism in Germany (elsewhere he claims Hinduism is responsible; cf. Hunt 1983); the implementation of the Final Solution (Hunt 1994:265-93); and the Ustaschi (Croat) massacres of Yugoslavian Serbs in teh early 1940s (Hunt 1994: 297-307). For Hunt...the syllogism is simple: Because there were at least nominal Catholics involved in these attrocities, therefore the Roman Catholic Church as an institution supported and encouraged their actions--a convenient, monocausal explanation for these various attrocities.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187.</small>

Hunt's intolerant views don't extend solely to those in other religions. The same author goes on to describe his overtly misogynistic tendendencies:

:For Hunt there is no doubt that the Roman Catholic Church plays a pivotal role in the end-times drama. She is the "Great Whore of Babylon," allegedly prophesied in the Revelation to St. John (17:3-6)—the "woman who rides the beast." For Hunt, as well, there is no doubt why it is a ''woman'' who rides the beast.
::Worldwide, today's women are asserting themselves as never before in history. Contrary to popular opinion, "women instigate more domestic violence [and] hit men more frequently and more severely [than men hit them]" and violence is far more frequent in lesbian relationships than between husband and wife. Women are taking over what were once men's jobs, and there is a growing acceptance of women at the highest levels of leadershipin business, government, and religion. Only God could have given John, 1900 years ago, a vision that so fits out day—a ''woman'' in control. From current trends, it seems inevitable that a ''woman'' must ride the beast. (Hunt 1994: 456; glosses and emphasis in the original)
:There are two points of interest here, one methodological, the other substantive. First, while arguments like this surface from time to time, Hunt's [sic] takes his citation of domestic violence statistics from ''USA Today'' (June 29, 1994; Hunt 1994: 541 n.20) rather than a recognized research source. In addition, as is often the case, Hunt misrepresents the reference he does use. On that date, ''USA Today'' published three articles related to domestic violence—none of which contain the statistics Hunt cites, and two of which contain information in direct contradition to it. Second, one is led to wonder about Hunt's thinly veiled misogynism, given that his chief candidate for the Whore of Bablylon is a church that has yet to ordain its first woman priest.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187-188.</small>

'''To read more:'''
* Gilbert W. Scharffs, "The Truth About 'The Godmakers'" (a line-by-line refutation) {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/}}
* Craig L. Foster, "Old Themes and Stereotypes Never Die: The Unchanging Ways of Anti-Mormons," {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/conf/2003FosC.html}}
* Robert Brown and Rosemary Brown, ''They Lie In Wait to Deceive: Vol. 4'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fair-lds.org/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FAIR-TLIW4}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Johnson</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Scott Johnson is the "Producer" for Living Hope Ministries, a "Ministry," lead by Joel Kramer, which produces anti Mormon DVDs.

'''To read more'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Joel Kramer</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Joel Kramer is the Director of Living Hope Ministries from Brigham City, Utah. Their mission statement is: "Living Hope Ministries exists to share biblical truths with Mormons, and to educate and equip Christian individuals, ministries and churches to reach Mormons for the biblical Jesus Christ. " Living Hope Ministries have produced several anti Mormon DVDs.

Joel has been recently arrested for disorderly conduct as he refused to comply with a police officer as he was allegedly unlawfully video taping an LDS pagent. Of course just being arrested may not mean anything, but it certainly was important to the writers of this DVD when talking about Joseph Smith. Since it was so important to them, we thought it only fair to include it here.

'''To read more:'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Charles Larson</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Larson is the author of the well-known but deeply flawed anti-Mormon book <i>"By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus": A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri</i>. This book has been reviewed by LDS Egyptologists who hold degrees in the field. One reviewer summed up Larson's work:

:''Larson's historical method is as follows: Invent evidence, read minds, attribute motives, misquote sources, argue from circumstantial evidence—or better yet—argue from no evidence....''
:''If Larson stumbles as a historian, he falls flat on his face as an Egyptologist. He betrays no knowledge of any foreign language, yet offers to guide us through Egyptian, "a unique area of study that is extremely difficult to master."''
:<small>—John Gee, "A Tragedy of Errors," p. 99.</small>

The only qualifications listed for Larson at his publisher's web site are "former Mormon and Brigham Young University graduate." If the producers of the video can dismiss trained Egyptologists only because they are Mormon, is it reasonable to likewise dismiss critics like Larson because of his religious beliefs? Or should we add to those critical religious beliefs the fact that he is not trained in Egyptology at all? The producers willingly apply a double standard here.

'''To read more:'''
*{{FR-4-1-15}}
*{{FR-4-1-16}}
*[[Charles Larson|Reviews of Charles Larson]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Living Hope Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Living Hope Ministries is a Utah-based anti-Mormon ministry. They exist solely to lead Latter-day Saints out of Mormonism and to prevent other people from becoming Mormons. To accomplish their goals they have produced and distributed several anti-Mormon videos and plan on doing even more.

Their videos display the same superficiality, lack of respect, and dishonesty as ''Search for the Truth''.

* '''To read more:'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Brian Mackert</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Brian J. Mackert was born a member of the FLDS church, which believes that the LDS Church is in apostasy. According to his online biography, his great grandfather was excommunicated from the LDS Church in 1934 after publishing a book in support of polygamy, and his grandparents were excommunicated because they "would not comply with the current LDS Churches [sic] position on polygamy."

After going through a spiritual crisis in his late teens, Mackert abandoned the FLDS church and joined the LDS Church right after he entered the Marine Corps. Within a year, in his words, "I became aware that I could never say with full confidence that the LDS Church was the true church. There were too many doubts that I had..." Shortly thereafter he stopped attending the LDS Church and became converted to born-again Evangelical Christianity and started attending local Baptist churches.

According to Brian's Web site:

:''Brian is now a licensed minister working in Prison Ministry preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ and sharing the forgiveness that only comes through the shed blood of Jesus Christ with prisoners and especially sex offenders.''
:''Brian is available upon request to give presenations concerning the beliefs, practices of Mormons and to give witnessing tips for those wanting to reach the Mormon People with the true gospel of Jesus Christ.''

One must wonder how much expertise one could gain in Mormonism after being raised in a different church and only belonging to the LDS Church for approximately a year.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jon McCartney</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Jon McCartney is pastor of the First Baptist Church in Tooele, Utah.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Floyd McElveen</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Floyd McElveen wrote a book that was distributed in Utah about 20 years ago. On the cover it says ''God's Word, Final, Infallible and Forever'', but inside it is actually 3 different books written by Floyd: the one on the cover, ''The Mormon Illusion'', and ''From Mormon Illusion to God's Love''. The book was published by Gospel Truths Ministries in Grand Rapids, MI. In the author bio it says he "is the national evangelist for the Conservative Baptist Home Mission Society."

McElveen also contributed a chapter to Charles Larson's flawed and inadequate ''By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus''.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Roger Oakland</h2>
|-
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Roger Oakland is with Understanding the Times International. He has a number of articles at the Website including many that attack Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, science, and New Age religious movements.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Phil Roberts</h2>
|-
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Phil Roberts is president of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, in Kansas City. He has written or contributed to at least two anti-Mormon books—''Mormonism Unmasked'' and ''The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism.'' (The latter he wrote with Francis J. Beckwith, Norman Geisler, Ron Rhodes, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner.)

Roberts served as director of the Interfaith Witness Department of the North American Mission Board for the Southern Baptist Convention where, in 1998, he was responsible for producing the video ''The Mormon Puzzle.'' Roberts has also authored several other articles that are clearly anti-Mormon in tone and focus.

'''To read more:'''
* {{FR-10-1-12}}
* {{FR-18-2-189}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Sandra Tanner</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Sandra Tanner and her late husband, Jerald Tanner, are certainly among the most prolific anti-Mormon authors. However, non-Mormon scholars of LDS issues have noted that the Tanners display a consistent bias in their work:

:''[The Tanners] always assume the worst possible motives in assessing the actions of Mormon leaders, even when those leaders faced extremely complex problems with no simple solutions.... Every bit of evidence, even if it could be most plausibly presented in a positive way, is represented as yet another nail in the coffin being prepared for the Mormon Church. There is no spectrum of colors, only blacks and whites, good guys and villains in the Tanners' published writings.... The Tanners have repeatedly assumed a holier-than-thou stance, refusing to be fair in applying the same debate standards of absolute rectitude which they demand of Mormonism to their own actions, writings, and beliefs.''
::<small>—{{Dialogue1|author=Lawrence Foster|article=Career Apostates:Reflections on the Works of Jerald and Sandra Tanner|vol=17|num=2|date=Summer 1984|start=45|end=46}}</small>

Sandra Tanner's research is agenda-driven and unreliable. Sincere seekers of the truth about Latter-day Saint beliefs and history deserve more reliable sources.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Jerald_and_Sandra_Tanner|Reviews of Jerald and Sandra Tanner]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Chip Thompson</h2>
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| style="color:#000"|
Chip Thompson director of Tri-Grace Ministries in Ephraim, UT. Tri-Grace Ministries runs a college house facility, which is "intended to be safe haven for all Christian students who attend Snow College." His advisory board includes:
:Bill Mckeever, (Mormon Research Ministries, Sandy, UT)
:Luke Wilson, (Institute for Religious Research, Grand Rapids, MI)
:Keith Walker, (Evidence Ministries, San Antonio, TX)
:Bob Betts, (Board Member, Concerned Christians, Mesa, AZ)
:Timothy Oliver, (Utah Director, Watchman Fellowship, Santaquin, UT)

It is curious that a facility for college students should have a board composed entirely of professional anti-Mormons.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">John Whitcomb</h2>
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Dr. John Whitcomb, Th.D., is president of Whitcomb Ministries, former professor of Theology and and Old Testament studies at Graceland Theological Seminary. Whitcomb is also co-author of ''The Genesis Flood'' which helped play a founding role in the modern "Creation Science" movement (although Whitcomb is a theologian rather than a scientist). Whitcomb believes in a young earth, a global flood, and an inerrant Bible that should be intepreted literally. He believes that there were 1,000 different kinds of dinosaurs on the ark and he is critically of not only evolution, but also of progressive creationism and intelligent design.

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Credits

2007-03-23T13:48:54Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Credits}}

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The credits list people associated with the production of the video. There is one section of the credits, entitled '''Special Thanks,''' that lists people who provided commentary on the video.
It may be helpful to those viewing the video to know a little more about some of these people—more than what you will discover through the video itself. We are sure that the video's producers, who want people to know more about the "true" Joseph Smith, won't mind if others know more about the people they have selected as experts on Mormonism.

Individuals are highlighted, below, in alphabetical order.

! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Marvin Cowan</h2>
|-
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Marvin is the director or owner of Utah Christian Publications. This organization sells exclusivly anti Mormon books and material. Many of the books sold by UCP are written by the other people listed in the credits of this DVD.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Gallatin</h2>
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Scott Gallatin is the pastor of Calvary Chapel Finger Lakes in Farmington, New York.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dennis and Rauni Higley</h2>
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Dennis and Rauni Higley are anti-Mormons living in Sandy, Utah. Rauni is originally a Finnish citizen and served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. Dennis is an American who also served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. They eventually met and were married in Utah. While working as a translator for the LDS Church, Rauni began to doubt its teachings. Her husband eventually followed suit. Together, they left the Church in the 1980s and became Evangelical Christians. They later established HIS (He is Savior) Ministries.

:The Higleys have been highly influenced by the Evangelical countercult arguments of the 1980s. During Rauni's stay in Finland in 1984, for example, she was instrumental in the inception of a highly sensationalistic article on the Mormons in a religious magazine. The material was heavily drawn from arguments in the book and movie ''The God Makers,'' with in-temple screenshots provided as illustrations. Some of the article’s statements convey the mood: "The truth is kept secret on purpose. It is not meant but for the few and chosen, for Mormonism is a pagan religion tied to secret doctrines, mysteries, and occultism. On its most secret levels, a Luciferian doctrine is unveiled as the background...Mormonism is based on a secret for the simple reason of the truth being too gruesome for a normal, ordinary person. Joseph Smith founded his religion based on completely mindboggling tales."
::<small>—Kim Östman, "An International Perspective: Opposition to Mormonism in Finland, 1845-2006" (presentation at the 2006 FAIR Conference).</small>

In 2004 the Higleys wrote a thirty-page booklet, ''The Truth about Mormonism,'' published by The Berean Call, a ministry outlet closely associated with Dave Hunt.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Tim and Karen Howard</h2>
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Tim and Karen Howard are former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dave Hunt</h2>
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Dave Hunt has been actively involved in the self-styled countercult movement for over two decades. He is the coauthor, with Ed Decker, of both the original and the "updated and expanded" version of ''The God Makers.'' According to common marketing hype, he is "an internationally recognized cult expert." The 1984 edition says he's the author of 10 books in 20 languages, and the 1994 edition gives him "20-plus books [with] combined sales of more than 3 million copies."

This, of course, still does not answer who Mr. Hunt really is—what credentials he has to speak to Christianity in general and Mormonism in particular. Mr. Hunt's lack of credentials have been problematic to many, if not to the video's producers.

In commenting on the "problem of authority and credibility" within the Christian countercult movement (of which ''Search for the Truth'' is a product), one non-LDS scholar comments specifically on Dave Hunt's place within the movement:

:Robert Wise begins his critique of ''The Seduction of Christianity'' in what seems an obvious, if often overlooked, place: who are Dave Hunt and Thomas Aloysius McMahon? Noting that "Hunt and McMahon define truth in a way peculiar to themselves," Wise continues: "We are never told who Hunt and McMahon are nor what credentials they have. Apparentlyl Hunt is a self-certified authority on cults" (1986: 40). DeMar and Leithart complain similarly: "That Dave Hunt, a man with a bachelor's degree in mathematics, is now the most prominent theologian of the dispensationalist movement...indicates the extent of the crisis" (1988: xvii).
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 199.</small>

Mr. Hunt's work relative to ''The God Makers'' was characterized by the non-Mormon US National Council of Christians and Jews as follows:

:"The Godmakers" ... does not, in our opinion, fairly portray the Mormon Church, Mormon belief, or Mormon history. It makes extensive use of 'half-truth', faulty generalizations, erroneous interpretations, and sensationalism…not reflective of the genuine spirit of the Mormon faith...It appears to us to be a basically unfair and untruthful presentation of what Mormons really believe and practice.''
::<small>— National Council of Christians and Jews, "Programs in Pluralism," April 1994.</small>{{link|url=http://www.lightplanet.com/response/nccj.htm}}

Mr. Hunt believes that his version of Christianity is the only true version, and that all those who disagree are following religions that have their roots in Satanism. Included in his cadre of false religions (besides Mormonism) is Roman Catholicism. According to one non-Mormon observer,

:[Hunt] presents the darkest possible version of Roman Catholic history, laying responsibility squarely at Rome's door for, among other things, the rise of Nazism in Germany (elsewhere he claims Hinduism is responsible; cf. Hunt 1983); the implementation of the Final Solution (Hunt 1994:265-93); and the Ustaschi (Croat) massacres of Yugoslavian Serbs in teh early 1940s (Hunt 1994: 297-307). For Hunt...the syllogism is simple: Because there were at least nominal Catholics involved in these attrocities, therefore the Roman Catholic Church as an institution supported and encouraged their actions--a convenient, monocausal explanation for these various attrocities.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187.</small>

Hunt's intolerant views don't extend solely to those in other religions. The same author goes on to describe his overtly misogynistic tendendencies:

:For Hunt there is no doubt that the Roman Catholic Church plays a pivotal role in the end-times drama. She is the "Great Whore of Babylon," allegedly prophesied in the Revelation to St. John (17:3-6)—the "woman who rides the beast." For Hunt, as well, there is no doubt why it is a ''woman'' who rides the beast.
::Worldwide, today's women are asserting themselves as never before in history. Contrary to popular opinion, "women instigate more domestic violence [and] hit men more frequently and more severely [than men hit them]" and violence is far more frequent in lesbian relationships than between husband and wife. Women are taking over what were once men's jobs, and there is a growing acceptance of women at the highest levels of leadershipin business, government, and religion. Only God could have given John, 1900 years ago, a vision that so fits out day—a ''woman'' in control. From current trends, it seems inevitable that a ''woman'' must ride the beast. (Hunt 1994: 456; glosses and emphasis in the original)
:There are two points of interest here, one methodological, the other substantive. First, while arguments like this surface from time to time, Hunt's [sic] takes his citation of domestic violence statistics from ''USA Today'' (June 29, 1994; Hunt 1994: 541 n.20) rather than a recognized research source. In addition, as is often the case, Hunt misrepresents the reference he does use. On that date, ''USA Today'' published three articles related to domestic violence—none of which contain the statistics Hunt cites, and two of which contain information in direct contradition to it. Second, one is led to wonder about Hunt's thinly veiled misogynism, given that his chief candidate for the Whore of Bablylon is a church that has yet to ordain its first woman priest.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187-188.</small>

'''To read more:'''
* Gilbert W. Scharffs, "The Truth About 'The Godmakers'" (a line-by-line refutation) {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/}}
* Craig L. Foster, "Old Themes and Stereotypes Never Die: The Unchanging Ways of Anti-Mormons," {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/conf/2003FosC.html}}
* Robert Brown and Rosemary Brown, ''They Lie In Wait to Deceive: Vol. 4'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fair-lds.org/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FAIR-TLIW4}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Johnson</h2>
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Scott Johnson is the "Producer" for Living Hope Ministries, a "Ministry," lead by Joel Kramer, which produces anti Mormon DVDs.

'''To read more'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Joel Kramer</h2>
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Joel Kramer is the Director of Living Hope Ministries from Brigham City, Utah. Their mission statement is: "Living Hope Ministries exists to share biblical truths with Mormons, and to educate and equip Christian individuals, ministries and churches to reach Mormons for the biblical Jesus Christ. " Living Hope Ministries have produced several anti Mormon DVDs.

Joel has been recently arrested for disorderly conduct as he refused to comply with a police officer as he was allegedly unlawfully video taping an LDS pagent. Of course just being arrested may not mean anything, but it certainly was important to the writers of this DVD when talking about Joseph Smith. Since it was so important to them, we thought it only fair to include it here.

'''To read more:'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Charles Larson</h2>
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Larson is the author of the well-known but deeply flawed anti-Mormon book <i>"By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus": A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri</i>. This book has been reviewed by LDS Egyptologists who hold degrees in the field. One reviewer summed up Larson's work:

:''Larson's historical method is as follows: Invent evidence, read minds, attribute motives, misquote sources, argue from circumstantial evidence—or better yet—argue from no evidence....''
:''If Larson stumbles as a historian, he falls flat on his face as an Egyptologist. He betrays no knowledge of any foreign language, yet offers to guide us through Egyptian, "a unique area of study that is extremely difficult to master."''
:<small>—John Gee, "A Tragedy of Errors," p. 99.</small>

The only qualifications listed for Larson at his publisher's web site are "former Mormon and Brigham Young University graduate." If the producers of the video can dismiss trained Egyptologists only because they are Mormon, is it reasonable to likewise dismiss critics like Larson because of his religious beliefs? Or should we add to those critical religious beliefs the fact that he is not trained in Egyptology at all? The producers willingly apply a double standard here.

'''To read more:'''
*{{FR-4-1-15}}
*{{FR-4-1-16}}
*[[Charles Larson|Reviews of Charles Larson]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Living Hope Ministries</h2>
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Living Hope Ministries is a Utah-based anti-Mormon ministry. They exist solely to lead Latter-day Saints out of Mormonism and to prevent other people from becoming Mormons. To accomplish their goals they have produced and distributed several anti-Mormon videos and plan on doing even more.

Their videos display the same superficiality, lack of respect, and dishonesty as ''Search for the Truth''.

* '''To read more:'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Brian Mackert</h2>
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Brian J. Mackert was born a member of the FLDS church, which believes that the LDS Church is in apostasy. According to his online biography, his great grandfather was excommunicated from the LDS Church in 1934 after publishing a book in support of polygamy, and his grandparents were excommunicated because they "would not comply with the current LDS Churches [sic] position on polygamy."

After going through a spiritual crisis in his late teens, Mackert abandoned the FLDS church and joined the LDS Church right after he entered the Marine Corps. Within a year, in his words, "I became aware that I could never say with full confidence that the LDS Church was the true church. There were too many doubts that I had..." Shortly thereafter he stopped attending the LDS Church and became converted to born-again Evangelical Christianity and started attending local Baptist churches.

According to Brian's Web site:

:''Brian is now a licensed minister working in Prison Ministry preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ and sharing the forgiveness that only comes through the shed blood of Jesus Christ with prisoners and especially sex offenders.''
:''Brian is available upon request to give presenations concerning the beliefs, practices of Mormons and to give witnessing tips for those wanting to reach the Mormon People with the true gospel of Jesus Christ.''

One must wonder how much expertise one could gain in Mormonism after being raised in a different church and only belonging to the LDS Church for approximately a year.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jon McCartney</h2>
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Jon McCartney is pastor of the First Baptist Church in Tooele, Utah.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Floyd McElveen</h2>
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Floyd McElveen wrote a book that was distributed in Utah about 20 years ago. On the cover it says ''God's Word, Final, Infallible and Forever'', but inside it is actually 3 different books written by Floyd: the one on the cover, ''The Mormon Illusion'', and ''From Mormon Illusion to God's Love''. The book was published by Gospel Truths Ministries in Grand Rapids, MI. In the author bio it says he "is the national evangelist for the Conservative Baptist Home Mission Society."

McElveen also contributed a chapter to Charles Larson's flawed and inadequate ''By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus''.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Roger Oakland</h2>
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Roger Oakland is with Understanding the Times International. He has a number of articles at the Website including many that attack Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, science, and New Age religious movements.

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Phil Roberts</h2>
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Phil Roberts is president of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, in Kansas City. He has written or contributed to at least two anti-Mormon books—''Mormonism Unmasked'' and ''The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism.'' (The latter he wrote with Francis J. Beckwith, Norman Geisler, Ron Rhodes, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner.)

Roberts served as director of the Interfaith Witness Department of the North American Mission Board for the Southern Baptist Convention where, in 1998, he was responsible for producing the video ''The Mormon Puzzle.'' Roberts has also authored several other articles that are clearly anti-Mormon in tone and focus.

'''To read more:'''
* {{FR-10-1-12}}
* {{FR-18-2-189}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Sandra Tanner</h2>
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Sandra Tanner and her late husband, Jerald Tanner, are certainly among the most prolific anti-Mormon authors. However, non-Mormon scholars of LDS issues have noted that the Tanners display a consistent bias in their work:

:''[The Tanners] always assume the worst possible motives in assessing the actions of Mormon leaders, even when those leaders faced extremely complex problems with no simple solutions.... Every bit of evidence, even if it could be most plausibly presented in a positive way, is represented as yet another nail in the coffin being prepared for the Mormon Church. There is no spectrum of colors, only blacks and whites, good guys and villains in the Tanners' published writings.... The Tanners have repeatedly assumed a holier-than-thou stance, refusing to be fair in applying the same debate standards of absolute rectitude which they demand of Mormonism to their own actions, writings, and beliefs.''
::<small>—{{Dialogue1|author=Lawrence Foster|article=Career Apostates:Reflections on the Works of Jerald and Sandra Tanner|vol=17|num=2|date=Summer 1984|start=45|end=46}}</small>

Sandra Tanner's research is agenda-driven and unreliable. Sincere seekers of the truth about Latter-day Saint beliefs and history deserve more reliable sources.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Jerald_and_Sandra_Tanner|Reviews of Jerald and Sandra Tanner]]

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Chip Thompson</h2>
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| style="color:#000"|
Chip Thompson director of Tri-Grace Ministries in Ephraim, UT. Tri-Grace Ministries runs a college house facility, which is "intended to be safe haven for all Christian students who attend Snow College." His advisory board includes:
:Bill Mckeever, (Mormon Research Ministries, Sandy, UT)
:Luke Wilson, (Institute for Religious Research, Grand Rapids, MI)
:Keith Walker, (Evidence Ministries, San Antonio, TX)
:Bob Betts, (Board Member, Concerned Christians, Mesa, AZ)
:Timothy Oliver, (Utah Director, Watchman Fellowship, Santaquin, UT)

It is curious that a facility for college students should have a board composed entirely of professional anti-Mormons.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">John Whitcomb</h2>
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Dr. John Whitcomb, Th.D., is president of Whitcomb Ministries and co-author of ''The Genesis Flood'' which helped play a founding role in the modern "Creation Science" movement (although Whitcomb is a theologian rather than a scientist). Whitcomb believes in a young earth, a global flood, and an inerrant Bible that should be intepreted literally.

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Credits

2007-03-23T13:40:18Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Credits}}

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The credits list people associated with the production of the video. There is one section of the credits, entitled '''Special Thanks,''' that lists people who provided commentary on the video.
It may be helpful to those viewing the video to know a little more about some of these people—more than what you will discover through the video itself. We are sure that the video's producers, who want people to know more about the "true" Joseph Smith, won't mind if others know more about the people they have selected as experts on Mormonism.

Individuals are highlighted, below, in alphabetical order.

! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Marvin Cowan</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Marvin is the director or owner of Utah Christian Publications. This organization sells exclusivly anti Mormon books and material. Many of the books sold by UCP are written by the other people listed in the credits of this DVD.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Gallatin</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Scott Gallatin is the pastor of Calvary Chapel Finger Lakes in Farmington, New York.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dennis and Rauni Higley</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Dennis and Rauni Higley are anti-Mormons living in Sandy, Utah. Rauni is originally a Finnish citizen and served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. Dennis is an American who also served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. They eventually met and were married in Utah. While working as a translator for the LDS Church, Rauni began to doubt its teachings. Her husband eventually followed suit. Together, they left the Church in the 1980s and became Evangelical Christians. They later established HIS (He is Savior) Ministries.

:The Higleys have been highly influenced by the Evangelical countercult arguments of the 1980s. During Rauni's stay in Finland in 1984, for example, she was instrumental in the inception of a highly sensationalistic article on the Mormons in a religious magazine. The material was heavily drawn from arguments in the book and movie ''The God Makers,'' with in-temple screenshots provided as illustrations. Some of the article’s statements convey the mood: "The truth is kept secret on purpose. It is not meant but for the few and chosen, for Mormonism is a pagan religion tied to secret doctrines, mysteries, and occultism. On its most secret levels, a Luciferian doctrine is unveiled as the background...Mormonism is based on a secret for the simple reason of the truth being too gruesome for a normal, ordinary person. Joseph Smith founded his religion based on completely mindboggling tales."
::<small>—Kim Östman, "An International Perspective: Opposition to Mormonism in Finland, 1845-2006" (presentation at the 2006 FAIR Conference).</small>

In 2004 the Higleys wrote a thirty-page booklet, ''The Truth about Mormonism,'' published by The Berean Call, a ministry outlet closely associated with Dave Hunt.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Tim and Karen Howard</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Tim and Karen Howard are former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dave Hunt</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Dave Hunt has been actively involved in the self-styled countercult movement for over two decades. He is the coauthor, with Ed Decker, of both the original and the "updated and expanded" version of ''The God Makers.'' According to common marketing hype, he is "an internationally recognized cult expert." The 1984 edition says he's the author of 10 books in 20 languages, and the 1994 edition gives him "20-plus books [with] combined sales of more than 3 million copies."

This, of course, still does not answer who Mr. Hunt really is—what credentials he has to speak to Christianity in general and Mormonism in particular. Mr. Hunt's lack of credentials have been problematic to many, if not to the video's producers.

In commenting on the "problem of authority and credibility" within the Christian countercult movement (of which ''Search for the Truth'' is a product), one non-LDS scholar comments specifically on Dave Hunt's place within the movement:

:Robert Wise begins his critique of ''The Seduction of Christianity'' in what seems an obvious, if often overlooked, place: who are Dave Hunt and Thomas Aloysius McMahon? Noting that "Hunt and McMahon define truth in a way peculiar to themselves," Wise continues: "We are never told who Hunt and McMahon are nor what credentials they have. Apparentlyl Hunt is a self-certified authority on cults" (1986: 40). DeMar and Leithart complain similarly: "That Dave Hunt, a man with a bachelor's degree in mathematics, is now the most prominent theologian of the dispensationalist movement...indicates the extent of the crisis" (1988: xvii).
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 199.</small>

Mr. Hunt's work relative to ''The God Makers'' was characterized by the non-Mormon US National Council of Christians and Jews as follows:

:"The Godmakers" ... does not, in our opinion, fairly portray the Mormon Church, Mormon belief, or Mormon history. It makes extensive use of 'half-truth', faulty generalizations, erroneous interpretations, and sensationalism…not reflective of the genuine spirit of the Mormon faith...It appears to us to be a basically unfair and untruthful presentation of what Mormons really believe and practice.''
::<small>— National Council of Christians and Jews, "Programs in Pluralism," April 1994.</small>{{link|url=http://www.lightplanet.com/response/nccj.htm}}

Mr. Hunt believes that his version of Christianity is the only true version, and that all those who disagree are following religions that have their roots in Satanism. Included in his cadre of false religions (besides Mormonism) is Roman Catholicism. According to one non-Mormon observer,

:[Hunt] presents the darkest possible version of Roman Catholic history, laying responsibility squarely at Rome's door for, among other things, the rise of Nazism in Germany (elsewhere he claims Hinduism is responsible; cf. Hunt 1983); the implementation of the Final Solution (Hunt 1994:265-93); and the Ustaschi (Croat) massacres of Yugoslavian Serbs in teh early 1940s (Hunt 1994: 297-307). For Hunt...the syllogism is simple: Because there were at least nominal Catholics involved in these attrocities, therefore the Roman Catholic Church as an institution supported and encouraged their actions--a convenient, monocausal explanation for these various attrocities.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187.</small>

Hunt's intolerant views don't extend solely to those in other religions. The same author goes on to describe his overtly misogynistic tendendencies:

:For Hunt there is no doubt that the Roman Catholic Church plays a pivotal role in the end-times drama. She is the "Great Whore of Babylon," allegedly prophesied in the Revelation to St. John (17:3-6)—the "woman who rides the beast." For Hunt, as well, there is no doubt why it is a ''woman'' who rides the beast.
::Worldwide, today's women are asserting themselves as never before in history. Contrary to popular opinion, "women instigate more domestic violence [and] hit men more frequently and more severely [than men hit them]" and violence is far more frequent in lesbian relationships than between husband and wife. Women are taking over what were once men's jobs, and there is a growing acceptance of women at the highest levels of leadershipin business, government, and religion. Only God could have given John, 1900 years ago, a vision that so fits out day—a ''woman'' in control. From current trends, it seems inevitable that a ''woman'' must ride the beast. (Hunt 1994: 456; glosses and emphasis in the original)
:There are two points of interest here, one methodological, the other substantive. First, while arguments like this surface from time to time, Hunt's [sic] takes his citation of domestic violence statistics from ''USA Today'' (June 29, 1994; Hunt 1994: 541 n.20) rather than a recognized research source. In addition, as is often the case, Hunt misrepresents the reference he does use. On that date, ''USA Today'' published three articles related to domestic violence—none of which contain the statistics Hunt cites, and two of which contain information in direct contradition to it. Second, one is led to wonder about Hunt's thinly veiled misogynism, given that his chief candidate for the Whore of Bablylon is a church that has yet to ordain its first woman priest.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187-188.</small>

'''To read more:'''
* Gilbert W. Scharffs, "The Truth About 'The Godmakers'" (a line-by-line refutation) {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/}}
* Craig L. Foster, "Old Themes and Stereotypes Never Die: The Unchanging Ways of Anti-Mormons," {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/conf/2003FosC.html}}
* Robert Brown and Rosemary Brown, ''They Lie In Wait to Deceive: Vol. 4'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fair-lds.org/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FAIR-TLIW4}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Johnson</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Scott Johnson is the "Producer" for Living Hope Ministries, a "Ministry," lead by Joel Kramer, which produces anti Mormon DVDs.

'''To read more'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Joel Kramer</h2>
|-
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Joel Kramer is the Director of Living Hope Ministries from Brigham City, Utah. Their mission statement is: "Living Hope Ministries exists to share biblical truths with Mormons, and to educate and equip Christian individuals, ministries and churches to reach Mormons for the biblical Jesus Christ. " Living Hope Ministries have produced several anti Mormon DVDs.

Joel has been recently arrested for disorderly conduct as he refused to comply with a police officer as he was allegedly unlawfully video taping an LDS pagent. Of course just being arrested may not mean anything, but it certainly was important to the writers of this DVD when talking about Joseph Smith. Since it was so important to them, we thought it only fair to include it here.

'''To read more:'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Charles Larson</h2>
|-
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Larson is the author of the well-known but deeply flawed anti-Mormon book <i>"By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus": A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri</i>. This book has been reviewed by LDS Egyptologists who hold degrees in the field. One reviewer summed up Larson's work:

:''Larson's historical method is as follows: Invent evidence, read minds, attribute motives, misquote sources, argue from circumstantial evidence—or better yet—argue from no evidence....''
:''If Larson stumbles as a historian, he falls flat on his face as an Egyptologist. He betrays no knowledge of any foreign language, yet offers to guide us through Egyptian, "a unique area of study that is extremely difficult to master."''
:<small>—John Gee, "A Tragedy of Errors," p. 99.</small>

The only qualifications listed for Larson at his publisher's web site are "former Mormon and Brigham Young University graduate." If the producers of the video can dismiss trained Egyptologists only because they are Mormon, is it reasonable to likewise dismiss critics like Larson because of his religious beliefs? Or should we add to those critical religious beliefs the fact that he is not trained in Egyptology at all? The producers willingly apply a double standard here.

'''To read more:'''
*{{FR-4-1-15}}
*{{FR-4-1-16}}
*[[Charles Larson|Reviews of Charles Larson]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Living Hope Ministries</h2>
|-
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Living Hope Ministries is a Utah-based anti-Mormon ministry. They exist solely to lead Latter-day Saints out of Mormonism and to prevent other people from becoming Mormons. To accomplish their goals they have produced and distributed several anti-Mormon videos and plan on doing even more.

Their videos display the same superficiality, lack of respect, and dishonesty as ''Search for the Truth''.

* '''To read more:'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Brian Mackert</h2>
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Brian J. Mackert was born a member of the FLDS church, which believes that the LDS Church is in apostasy. According to his online biography, his great grandfather was excommunicated from the LDS Church in 1934 after publishing a book in support of polygamy, and his grandparents were excommunicated because they "would not comply with the current LDS Churches [sic] position on polygamy."

After going through a spiritual crisis in his late teens, Mackert abandoned the FLDS church and joined the LDS Church right after he entered the Marine Corps. Within a year, in his words, "I became aware that I could never say with full confidence that the LDS Church was the true church. There were too many doubts that I had..." Shortly thereafter he stopped attending the LDS Church and became converted to born-again Evangelical Christianity and started attending local Baptist churches.

According to Brian's Web site:

:''Brian is now a licensed minister working in Prison Ministry preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ and sharing the forgiveness that only comes through the shed blood of Jesus Christ with prisoners and especially sex offenders.''
:''Brian is available upon request to give presenations concerning the beliefs, practices of Mormons and to give witnessing tips for those wanting to reach the Mormon People with the true gospel of Jesus Christ.''

One must wonder how much expertise one could gain in Mormonism after being raised in a different church and only belonging to the LDS Church for approximately a year.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jon McCartney</h2>
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Jon McCartney is pastor of the First Baptist Church in Tooele, Utah.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Floyd McElveen</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Floyd McElveen wrote a book that was distributed in Utah about 20 years ago. On the cover it says ''God's Word, Final, Infallible and Forever'', but inside it is actually 3 different books written by Floyd: the one on the cover, ''The Mormon Illusion'', and ''From Mormon Illusion to God's Love''. The book was published by Gospel Truths Ministries in Grand Rapids, MI. In the author bio it says he "is the national evangelist for the Conservative Baptist Home Mission Society."

McElveen also contributed a chapter to Charles Larson's flawed and inadequate ''By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus''.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Roger Oakland</h2>
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Roger Oakland is with Understanding the Times International. He has a number of articles at the Website including many that attack Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, science, and New Age religious movements.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Phil Roberts</h2>
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Phil Roberts is president of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, in Kansas City. He has written or contributed to at least two anti-Mormon books—''Mormonism Unmasked'' and ''The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism.'' (The latter he wrote with Francis J. Beckwith, Norman Geisler, Ron Rhodes, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner.)

Roberts served as director of the Interfaith Witness Department of the North American Mission Board for the Southern Baptist Convention where, in 1998, he was responsible for producing the video ''The Mormon Puzzle.'' Roberts has also authored several other articles that are clearly anti-Mormon in tone and focus.

'''To read more:'''
* {{FR-10-1-12}}
* {{FR-18-2-189}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Sandra Tanner</h2>
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| style="color:#000"|
Sandra Tanner and her late husband, Jerald Tanner, are certainly among the most prolific anti-Mormon authors. However, non-Mormon scholars of LDS issues have noted that the Tanners display a consistent bias in their work:

:''[The Tanners] always assume the worst possible motives in assessing the actions of Mormon leaders, even when those leaders faced extremely complex problems with no simple solutions.... Every bit of evidence, even if it could be most plausibly presented in a positive way, is represented as yet another nail in the coffin being prepared for the Mormon Church. There is no spectrum of colors, only blacks and whites, good guys and villains in the Tanners' published writings.... The Tanners have repeatedly assumed a holier-than-thou stance, refusing to be fair in applying the same debate standards of absolute rectitude which they demand of Mormonism to their own actions, writings, and beliefs.''
::<small>—{{Dialogue1|author=Lawrence Foster|article=Career Apostates:Reflections on the Works of Jerald and Sandra Tanner|vol=17|num=2|date=Summer 1984|start=45|end=46}}</small>

Sandra Tanner's research is agenda-driven and unreliable. Sincere seekers of the truth about Latter-day Saint beliefs and history deserve more reliable sources.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Jerald_and_Sandra_Tanner|Reviews of Jerald and Sandra Tanner]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Chip Thompson</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Chip Thompson director of Tri-Grace Ministries in Ephraim, UT. Tri-Grace Ministries runs a college house facility, which is "intended to be safe haven for all Christian students who attend Snow College." His advisory board includes:
:Bill Mckeever, (Mormon Research Ministries, Sandy, UT)
:Luke Wilson, (Institute for Religious Research, Grand Rapids, MI)
:Keith Walker, (Evidence Ministries, San Antonio, TX)
:Bob Betts, (Board Member, Concerned Christians, Mesa, AZ)
:Timothy Oliver, (Utah Director, Watchman Fellowship, Santaquin, UT)

It is curious that a facility for college students should have a board composed entirely of professional anti-Mormons.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">John Whitcomb</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Dr. John Whitcomb, Th.D., is president of Whitcomb Ministries and co-author of ''The Genesis Flood.'' Whitcomb is a creationist who believes in a young earth, a global flood, and an inerrant Bible.

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Credits

2007-03-23T13:22:35Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Credits}}

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The credits list people associated with the production of the video. There is one section of the credits, entitled '''Special Thanks,''' that lists people who provided commentary on the video.
It may be helpful to those viewing the video to know a little more about some of these people—more than what you will discover through the video itself. We are sure that the video's producers, who want people to know more about the "true" Joseph Smith, won't mind if others know more about the people they have selected as experts on Mormonism.

Individuals are highlighted, below, in alphabetical order.

! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Marvin Cowan</h2>
|-
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Marvin is the director or owner of Utah Christian Publications. This organization sells exclusivly anti Mormon books and material. Many of the books sold by UCP are written by the other people listed in the credits of this DVD.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Gallatin</h2>
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Scott Gallatin is the pastor of Calvary Chapel Finger Lakes in Farmington, New York.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dennis and Rauni Higley</h2>
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Dennis and Rauni Higley are anti-Mormons living in Sandy, Utah. Rauni is originally a Finnish citizen and served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. Dennis is an American who also served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. They eventually met and were married in Utah. While working as a translator for the LDS Church, Rauni began to doubt its teachings. Her husband eventually followed suit. Together, they left the Church in the 1980s and became Evangelical Christians. They later established HIS (He is Savior) Ministries.

:The Higleys have been highly influenced by the Evangelical countercult arguments of the 1980s. During Rauni's stay in Finland in 1984, for example, she was instrumental in the inception of a highly sensationalistic article on the Mormons in a religious magazine. The material was heavily drawn from arguments in the book and movie ''The God Makers,'' with in-temple screenshots provided as illustrations. Some of the article’s statements convey the mood: "The truth is kept secret on purpose. It is not meant but for the few and chosen, for Mormonism is a pagan religion tied to secret doctrines, mysteries, and occultism. On its most secret levels, a Luciferian doctrine is unveiled as the background...Mormonism is based on a secret for the simple reason of the truth being too gruesome for a normal, ordinary person. Joseph Smith founded his religion based on completely mindboggling tales."
::<small>—Kim Östman, "An International Perspective: Opposition to Mormonism in Finland, 1845-2006" (presentation at the 2006 FAIR Conference).</small>

In 2004 the Higleys wrote a thirty-page booklet, ''The Truth about Mormonism,'' published by The Berean Call, a ministry outlet closely associated with Dave Hunt.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Tim and Karen Howard</h2>
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Tim and Karen Howard are former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dave Hunt</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Dave Hunt has been actively involved in the self-styled countercult movement for over two decades. He is the coauthor, with Ed Decker, of both the original and the "updated and expanded" version of ''The God Makers.'' According to common marketing hype, he is "an internationally recognized cult expert." The 1984 edition says he's the author of 10 books in 20 languages, and the 1994 edition gives him "20-plus books [with] combined sales of more than 3 million copies."

This, of course, still does not answer who Mr. Hunt really is—what credentials he has to speak to Christianity in general and Mormonism in particular. Mr. Hunt's lack of credentials have been problematic to many, if not to the video's producers.

In commenting on the "problem of authority and credibility" within the Christian countercult movement (of which ''Search for the Truth'' is a product), one non-LDS scholar comments specifically on Dave Hunt's place within the movement:

:Robert Wise begins his critique of ''The Seduction of Christianity'' in what seems an obvious, if often overlooked, place: who are Dave Hunt and Thomas Aloysius McMahon? Noting that "Hunt and McMahon define truth in a way peculiar to themselves," Wise continues: "We are never told who Hunt and McMahon are nor what credentials they have. Apparentlyl Hunt is a self-certified authority on cults" (1986: 40). DeMar and Leithart complain similarly: "That Dave Hunt, a man with a bachelor's degree in mathematics, is now the most prominent theologian of the dispensationalist movement...indicates the extent of the crisis" (1988: xvii).
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 199.</small>

Mr. Hunt's work relative to ''The God Makers'' was characterized by the non-Mormon US National Council of Christians and Jews as follows:

:"The Godmakers" ... does not, in our opinion, fairly portray the Mormon Church, Mormon belief, or Mormon history. It makes extensive use of 'half-truth', faulty generalizations, erroneous interpretations, and sensationalism…not reflective of the genuine spirit of the Mormon faith...It appears to us to be a basically unfair and untruthful presentation of what Mormons really believe and practice.''
::<small>— National Council of Christians and Jews, "Programs in Pluralism," April 1994.</small>{{link|url=http://www.lightplanet.com/response/nccj.htm}}

Mr. Hunt believes that his version of Christianity is the only true version, and that all those who disagree are following religions that have their roots in Satanism. Included in his cadre of false religions (besides Mormonism) is Roman Catholicism. According to one non-Mormon observer,

:[Hunt] presents the darkest possible version of Roman Catholic history, laying responsibility squarely at Rome's door for, among other things, the rise of Nazism in Germany (elsewhere he claims Hinduism is responsible; cf. Hunt 1983); the implementation of the Final Solution (Hunt 1994:265-93); and the Ustaschi (Croat) massacres of Yugoslavian Serbs in teh early 1940s (Hunt 1994: 297-307). For Hunt...the syllogism is simple: Because there were at least nominal Catholics involved in these attrocities, therefore the Roman Catholic Church as an institution supported and encouraged their actions--a convenient, monocausal explanation for these various attrocities.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187.</small>

Hunt's intolerant views don't extend solely to those in other religions. The same author goes on to describe his overtly misogynistic tendendencies:

:For Hunt there is no doubt that the Roman Catholic Church plays a pivotal role in the end-times drama. She is the "Great Whore of Babylon," allegedly prophesied in the Revelation to St. John (17:3-6)—the "woman who rides the beast." For Hunt, as well, there is no doubt why it is a ''woman'' who rides the beast.
::Worldwide, today's women are asserting themselves as never before in history. Contrary to popular opinion, "women instigate more domestic violence [and] hit men more frequently and more severely [than men hit them]" and violence is far more frequent in lesbian relationships than between husband and wife. Women are taking over what were once men's jobs, and there is a growing acceptance of women at the highest levels of leadershipin business, government, and religion. Only God could have given John, 1900 years ago, a vision that so fits out day—a ''woman'' in control. From current trends, it seems inevitable that a ''woman'' must ride the beast. (Hunt 1994: 456; glosses and emphasis in the original)
:There are two points of interest here, one methodological, the other substantive. First, while arguments like this surface from time to time, Hunt's [sic] takes his citation of domestic violence statistics from ''USA Today'' (June 29, 1994; Hunt 1994: 541 n.20) rather than a recognized research source. In addition, as is often the case, Hunt misrepresents the reference he does use. On that date, ''USA Today'' published three articles related to domestic violence—none of which contain the statistics Hunt cites, and two of which contain information in direct contradition to it. Second, one is led to wonder about Hunt's thinly veiled misogynism, given that his chief candidate for the Whore of Bablylon is a church that has yet to ordain its first woman priest.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187-188.</small>

'''To read more:'''
* Gilbert W. Scharffs, "The Truth About 'The Godmakers'" (a line-by-line refutation) {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/}}
* Craig L. Foster, "Old Themes and Stereotypes Never Die: The Unchanging Ways of Anti-Mormons," {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/conf/2003FosC.html}}
* Robert Brown and Rosemary Brown, ''They Lie In Wait to Deceive: Vol. 4'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fair-lds.org/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FAIR-TLIW4}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Johnson</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Scott Johnson is the "Producer" for Living Hope Ministries, a "Ministry," lead by Joel Kramer, which produces anti Mormon DVDs.

'''To read more'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Joel Kramer</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Joel Kramer is the Director of Living Hope Ministries from Brigham City, Utah. Their mission statement is: "Living Hope Ministries exists to share biblical truths with Mormons, and to educate and equip Christian individuals, ministries and churches to reach Mormons for the biblical Jesus Christ. " Living Hope Ministries have produced several anti Mormon DVDs.

Joel has been recently arrested for disorderly conduct as he refused to comply with a police officer as he was allegedly unlawfully video taping an LDS pagent. Of course just being arrested may not mean anything, but it certainly was important to the writers of this DVD when talking about Joseph Smith. Since it was so important to them, we thought it only fair to include it here.

'''To read more:'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Charles Larson</h2>
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Larson is the author of the well-known but deeply flawed anti-Mormon book <i>"By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus": A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri</i>. This book has been reviewed by LDS Egyptologists who hold degrees in the field. One reviewer summed up Larson's work:

:''Larson's historical method is as follows: Invent evidence, read minds, attribute motives, misquote sources, argue from circumstantial evidence—or better yet—argue from no evidence....''
:''If Larson stumbles as a historian, he falls flat on his face as an Egyptologist. He betrays no knowledge of any foreign language, yet offers to guide us through Egyptian, "a unique area of study that is extremely difficult to master."''
:<small>—John Gee, "A Tragedy of Errors," p. 99.</small>

The only qualifications listed for Larson at his publisher's web site are "former Mormon and Brigham Young University graduate." If the producers of the video can dismiss trained Egyptologists only because they are Mormon, is it reasonable to likewise dismiss critics like Larson because of his religious beliefs? Or should we add to those critical religious beliefs the fact that he is not trained in Egyptology at all? The producers willingly apply a double standard here.

'''To read more:'''
*{{FR-4-1-15}}
*{{FR-4-1-16}}
*[[Charles Larson|Reviews of Charles Larson]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Living Hope Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Living Hope Ministries is a Utah-based anti-Mormon ministry. They exist solely to lead Latter-day Saints out of Mormonism and to prevent other people from becoming Mormons. To accomplish their goals they have produced and distributed several anti-Mormon videos and plan on doing even more.

Their videos display the same superficiality, lack of respect, and dishonesty as ''Search for the Truth''.

* '''To read more:'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Brian Mackert</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Brian J. Mackert was born a member of the FLDS church, which believes that the LDS Church is in apostasy. According to his online biography, his great grandfather was excommunicated from the LDS Church in 1934 after publishing a book in support of polygamy, and his grandparents were excommunicated because they "would not comply with the current LDS Churches [sic] position on polygamy."

After going through a spiritual crisis in his late teens, Mackert abandoned the FLDS church and joined the LDS Church right after he entered the Marine Corps. Within a year, in his words, "I became aware that I could never say with full confidence that the LDS Church was the true church. There were too many doubts that I had..." Shortly thereafter he stopped attending the LDS Church and became converted to born-again Evangelical Christianity and started attending local Baptist churches.

According to Brian's Web site:

:''Brian is now a licensed minister working in Prison Ministry preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ and sharing the forgiveness that only comes through the shed blood of Jesus Christ with prisoners and especially sex offenders.''
:''Brian is available upon request to give presenations concerning the beliefs, practices of Mormons and to give witnessing tips for those wanting to reach the Mormon People with the true gospel of Jesus Christ.''

One must wonder how much expertise one could gain in Mormonism after being raised in a different church and only belonging to the LDS Church for approximately a year.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jon McCartney</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Jon McCartney is pastor of the First Baptist Church in Tooele, Utah.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Floyd McElveen</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Floyd McElveen wrote a book that was distributed in Utah about 20 years ago. On the cover it says ''God's Word, Final, Infallible and Forever'', but inside it is actually 3 different books written by Floyd: the one on the cover, ''The Mormon Illusion'', and ''From Mormon Illusion to God's Love''. The book was published by Gospel Truths Ministries in Grand Rapids, MI. In the author bio it says he "is the national evangelist for the Conservative Baptist Home Mission Society."

McElveen also contributed a chapter to Charles Larson's flawed and inadequate ''By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus''.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Roger Oakland</h2>
|-
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Roger Oakland is with Understanding the Times International. He has a number of articles at the Website including many that attack Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, science, and New Age religious movements.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Phil Roberts</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Phil Roberts is president of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, in Kansas City. He has written or contributed to at least two anti-Mormon books—''Mormonism Unmasked'' and ''The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism.'' (The latter he wrote with Francis J. Beckwith, Norman Geisler, Ron Rhodes, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner.)

Roberts served as director of the Interfaith Witness Department of the North American Mission Board for the Southern Baptist Convention where, in 1998, he was responsible for producing the video ''The Mormon Puzzle.'' Roberts has also authored several other articles that are clearly anti-Mormon in tone and focus.

'''To read more:'''
* {{FR-10-1-12}}
* {{FR-18-2-189}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Sandra Tanner</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Sandra Tanner and her late husband, Jerald Tanner, are certainly among the most prolific anti-Mormon authors. However, non-Mormon scholars of LDS issues have noted that the Tanners display a consistent bias in their work:

:''[The Tanners] always assume the worst possible motives in assessing the actions of Mormon leaders, even when those leaders faced extremely complex problems with no simple solutions.... Every bit of evidence, even if it could be most plausibly presented in a positive way, is represented as yet another nail in the coffin being prepared for the Mormon Church. There is no spectrum of colors, only blacks and whites, good guys and villains in the Tanners' published writings.... The Tanners have repeatedly assumed a holier-than-thou stance, refusing to be fair in applying the same debate standards of absolute rectitude which they demand of Mormonism to their own actions, writings, and beliefs.''
::<small>—{{Dialogue1|author=Lawrence Foster|article=Career Apostates:Reflections on the Works of Jerald and Sandra Tanner|vol=17|num=2|date=Summer 1984|start=45|end=46}}</small>

Sandra Tanner's research is agenda-driven and unreliable. Sincere seekers of the truth about Latter-day Saint beliefs and history deserve more reliable sources.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Jerald_and_Sandra_Tanner|Reviews of Jerald and Sandra Tanner]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Chip Thompson</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Chip Thompson director of Tri-Grace Ministries in Ephraim, UT. Tri-Grace Ministries runs a college house facility, which is "intended to be safe haven for all Christian students who attend Snow College." His advisory board includes:
:Bill Mckeever, (Mormon Research Ministries, Sandy, UT)
:Luke Wilson, (Institute for Religious Research, Grand Rapids, MI)
:Keith Walker, (Evidence Ministries, San Antonio, TX)
:Bob Betts, (Board Member, Concerned Christians, Mesa, AZ)
:Timothy Oliver, (Utah Director, Watchman Fellowship, Santaquin, UT)

It is curious that a facility for college students should have a board composed entirely of professional anti-Mormons.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">John Whitcomb</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Dr. John Whitcomb, Th.D., is president of Whitcomb Ministries and co-author of ''The Genesis Flood.'' Whitcomb is a creationist who believes in a young earth and a global flood.

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Credits

2007-03-23T13:11:36Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Credits}}

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The credits list people associated with the production of the video. There is one section of the credits, entitled '''Special Thanks,''' that lists people who provided commentary on the video.
It may be helpful to those viewing the video to know a little more about some of these people—more than what you will discover through the video itself. We are sure that the video's producers, who want people to know more about the "true" Joseph Smith, won't mind if others know more about the people they have selected as experts on Mormonism.

Individuals are highlighted, below, in alphabetical order.

! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Marvin Cowan</h2>
|-
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Marvin is the director or owner of Utah Christian Publications. This organization sells exclusivly anti Mormon books and material. Many of the books sold by UCP are written by the other people listed in the credits of this DVD.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Gallatin</h2>
|-
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Scott Gallatin is the pastor of Calvary Chapel Finger Lakes in Farmington, New York.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dennis and Rauni Higley</h2>
|-
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Dennis and Rauni Higley are anti-Mormons living in Sandy, Utah. Rauni is originally a Finnish citizen and served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. Dennis is an American who also served as a Mormon missionary in Finland. They eventually met and were married in Utah. While working as a translator for the LDS Church, Rauni began to doubt its teachings. Her husband eventually followed suit. Together, they left the Church in the 1980s and became Evangelical Christians. They later established HIS (He is Savior) Ministries.

:The Higleys have been highly influenced by the Evangelical countercult arguments of the 1980s. During Rauni's stay in Finland in 1984, for example, she was instrumental in the inception of a highly sensationalistic article on the Mormons in a religious magazine. The material was heavily drawn from arguments in the book and movie ''The God Makers,'' with in-temple screenshots provided as illustrations. Some of the article’s statements convey the mood: "The truth is kept secret on purpose. It is not meant but for the few and chosen, for Mormonism is a pagan religion tied to secret doctrines, mysteries, and occultism. On its most secret levels, a Luciferian doctrine is unveiled as the background...Mormonism is based on a secret for the simple reason of the truth being too gruesome for a normal, ordinary person. Joseph Smith founded his religion based on completely mindboggling tales."
::<small>—Kim Östman, "An International Perspective: Opposition to Mormonism in Finland, 1845-2006" (presentation at the 2006 FAIR Conference).</small>

In 2004 the Higleys wrote a thirty-page booklet, ''The Truth about Mormonism,'' published by The Berean Call, a ministry outlet closely associated with Dave Hunt.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Tim and Karen Howard</h2>
|-
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Info

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Dave Hunt</h2>
|-
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Dave Hunt has been actively involved in the self-styled countercult movement for over two decades. He is the coauthor, with Ed Decker, of both the original and the "updated and expanded" version of ''The God Makers.'' According to common marketing hype, he is "an internationally recognized cult expert." The 1984 edition says he's the author of 10 books in 20 languages, and the 1994 edition gives him "20-plus books [with] combined sales of more than 3 million copies."

This, of course, still does not answer who Mr. Hunt really is—what credentials he has to speak to Christianity in general and Mormonism in particular. Mr. Hunt's lack of credentials have been problematic to many, if not to the video's producers.

In commenting on the "problem of authority and credibility" within the Christian countercult movement (of which ''Search for the Truth'' is a product), one non-LDS scholar comments specifically on Dave Hunt's place within the movement:

:Robert Wise begins his critique of ''The Seduction of Christianity'' in what seems an obvious, if often overlooked, place: who are Dave Hunt and Thomas Aloysius McMahon? Noting that "Hunt and McMahon define truth in a way peculiar to themselves," Wise continues: "We are never told who Hunt and McMahon are nor what credentials they have. Apparentlyl Hunt is a self-certified authority on cults" (1986: 40). DeMar and Leithart complain similarly: "That Dave Hunt, a man with a bachelor's degree in mathematics, is now the most prominent theologian of the dispensationalist movement...indicates the extent of the crisis" (1988: xvii).
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 199.</small>

Mr. Hunt's work relative to ''The God Makers'' was characterized by the non-Mormon US National Council of Christians and Jews as follows:

:"The Godmakers" ... does not, in our opinion, fairly portray the Mormon Church, Mormon belief, or Mormon history. It makes extensive use of 'half-truth', faulty generalizations, erroneous interpretations, and sensationalism…not reflective of the genuine spirit of the Mormon faith...It appears to us to be a basically unfair and untruthful presentation of what Mormons really believe and practice.''
::<small>— National Council of Christians and Jews, "Programs in Pluralism," April 1994.</small>{{link|url=http://www.lightplanet.com/response/nccj.htm}}

Mr. Hunt believes that his version of Christianity is the only true version, and that all those who disagree are following religions that have their roots in Satanism. Included in his cadre of false religions (besides Mormonism) is Roman Catholicism. According to one non-Mormon observer,

:[Hunt] presents the darkest possible version of Roman Catholic history, laying responsibility squarely at Rome's door for, among other things, the rise of Nazism in Germany (elsewhere he claims Hinduism is responsible; cf. Hunt 1983); the implementation of the Final Solution (Hunt 1994:265-93); and the Ustaschi (Croat) massacres of Yugoslavian Serbs in teh early 1940s (Hunt 1994: 297-307). For Hunt...the syllogism is simple: Because there were at least nominal Catholics involved in these attrocities, therefore the Roman Catholic Church as an institution supported and encouraged their actions--a convenient, monocausal explanation for these various attrocities.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187.</small>

Hunt's intolerant views don't extend solely to those in other religions. The same author goes on to describe his overtly misogynistic tendendencies:

:For Hunt there is no doubt that the Roman Catholic Church plays a pivotal role in the end-times drama. She is the "Great Whore of Babylon," allegedly prophesied in the Revelation to St. John (17:3-6)—the "woman who rides the beast." For Hunt, as well, there is no doubt why it is a ''woman'' who rides the beast.
::Worldwide, today's women are asserting themselves as never before in history. Contrary to popular opinion, "women instigate more domestic violence [and] hit men more frequently and more severely [than men hit them]" and violence is far more frequent in lesbian relationships than between husband and wife. Women are taking over what were once men's jobs, and there is a growing acceptance of women at the highest levels of leadershipin business, government, and religion. Only God could have given John, 1900 years ago, a vision that so fits out day—a ''woman'' in control. From current trends, it seems inevitable that a ''woman'' must ride the beast. (Hunt 1994: 456; glosses and emphasis in the original)
:There are two points of interest here, one methodological, the other substantive. First, while arguments like this surface from time to time, Hunt's [sic] takes his citation of domestic violence statistics from ''USA Today'' (June 29, 1994; Hunt 1994: 541 n.20) rather than a recognized research source. In addition, as is often the case, Hunt misrepresents the reference he does use. On that date, ''USA Today'' published three articles related to domestic violence—none of which contain the statistics Hunt cites, and two of which contain information in direct contradition to it. Second, one is led to wonder about Hunt's thinly veiled misogynism, given that his chief candidate for the Whore of Bablylon is a church that has yet to ordain its first woman priest.
::<small>—Douglas E. Cowan, ''Bearing False Witness: An Introduction to the Christian Countercult'' (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2003), 187-188.</small>

'''To read more:'''
* Gilbert W. Scharffs, "The Truth About 'The Godmakers'" (a line-by-line refutation) {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/}}
* Craig L. Foster, "Old Themes and Stereotypes Never Die: The Unchanging Ways of Anti-Mormons," {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/conf/2003FosC.html}}
* Robert Brown and Rosemary Brown, ''They Lie In Wait to Deceive: Vol. 4'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fair-lds.org/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FAIR-TLIW4}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Scott Johnson</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Scott Johnson is the "Producer" for Living Hope Ministries, a "Ministry," lead by Joel Kramer, which produces anti Mormon DVDs.

'''To read more'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Joel Kramer</h2>
|-
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Joel Kramer is the Director of Living Hope Ministries from Brigham City, Utah. Their mission statement is: "Living Hope Ministries exists to share biblical truths with Mormons, and to educate and equip Christian individuals, ministries and churches to reach Mormons for the biblical Jesus Christ. " Living Hope Ministries have produced several anti Mormon DVDs.

Joel has been recently arrested for disorderly conduct as he refused to comply with a police officer as he was allegedly unlawfully video taping an LDS pagent. Of course just being arrested may not mean anything, but it certainly was important to the writers of this DVD when talking about Joseph Smith. Since it was so important to them, we thought it only fair to include it here.

'''To read more:'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Charles Larson</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Larson is the author of the well-known but deeply flawed anti-Mormon book <i>"By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus": A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri</i>. This book has been reviewed by LDS Egyptologists who hold degrees in the field. One reviewer summed up Larson's work:

:''Larson's historical method is as follows: Invent evidence, read minds, attribute motives, misquote sources, argue from circumstantial evidence—or better yet—argue from no evidence....''
:''If Larson stumbles as a historian, he falls flat on his face as an Egyptologist. He betrays no knowledge of any foreign language, yet offers to guide us through Egyptian, "a unique area of study that is extremely difficult to master."''
:<small>—John Gee, "A Tragedy of Errors," p. 99.</small>

The only qualifications listed for Larson at his publisher's web site are "former Mormon and Brigham Young University graduate." If the producers of the video can dismiss trained Egyptologists only because they are Mormon, is it reasonable to likewise dismiss critics like Larson because of his religious beliefs? Or should we add to those critical religious beliefs the fact that he is not trained in Egyptology at all? The producers willingly apply a double standard here.

'''To read more:'''
*{{FR-4-1-15}}
*{{FR-4-1-16}}
*[[Charles Larson|Reviews of Charles Larson]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Living Hope Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Living Hope Ministries is a Utah-based anti-Mormon ministry. They exist solely to lead Latter-day Saints out of Mormonism and to prevent other people from becoming Mormons. To accomplish their goals they have produced and distributed several anti-Mormon videos and plan on doing even more.

Their videos display the same superficiality, lack of respect, and dishonesty as ''Search for the Truth''.

* '''To read more:'''
* Brant Gradner, "Behind the Mask, Behind the Curtain: Uncovering the Illusion'' (Review of ''The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/Bible/Bible_vs_the_Book_of_Mormon_Video.html}}
*{{FR-18-1-3}}
*{{FR-18-2-6}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Brian Mackert</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Brian J. Mackert was born a member of the FLDS church, which believes that the LDS Church is in apostasy. According to his online biography, his great grandfather was excommunicated from the LDS Church in 1934 after publishing a book in support of polygamy, and his grandparents were excommunicated because they "would not comply with the current LDS Churches [sic] position on polygamy."

After going through a spiritual crisis in his late teens, Mackert abandoned the FLDS church and joined the LDS Church right after he entered the Marine Corps. Within a year, in his words, "I became aware that I could never say with full confidence that the LDS Church was the true church. There were too many doubts that I had..." Shortly thereafter he stopped attending the LDS Church and became converted to born-again Evangelical Christianity and started attending local Baptist churches.

According to Brian's Web site:

:''Brian is now a licensed minister working in Prison Ministry preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ and sharing the forgiveness that only comes through the shed blood of Jesus Christ with prisoners and especially sex offenders.''
:''Brian is available upon request to give presenations concerning the beliefs, practices of Mormons and to give witnessing tips for those wanting to reach the Mormon People with the true gospel of Jesus Christ.''

One must wonder how much expertise one could gain in Mormonism after being raised in a different church and only belonging to the LDS Church for approximately a year.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jon McCartney</h2>
|-
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Jon McCartney is pastor of the First Baptist Church in Tooele, Utah.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Floyd McElveen</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Floyd McElveen wrote a book that was distributed in Utah about 20 years ago. On the cover it says ''God's Word, Final, Infallible and Forever'', but inside it is actually 3 different books written by Floyd: the one on the cover, ''The Mormon Illusion'', and ''From Mormon Illusion to God's Love''. The book was published by Gospel Truths Ministries in Grand Rapids, MI. In the author bio it says he "is the national evangelist for the Conservative Baptist Home Mission Society."

McElveen also contributed a chapter to Charles Larson's flawed and inadequate ''By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus''.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Roger Oakland</h2>
|-
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Roger Oakland is with Understanding the Times International. He has a number of articles at the Website including many that attack Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, science, and New Age religious movements.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Phil Roberts</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Phil Roberts is president of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, in Kansas City. He has written or contributed to at least two anti-Mormon books—''Mormonism Unmasked'' and ''The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism.'' (The latter he wrote with Francis J. Beckwith, Norman Geisler, Ron Rhodes, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner.)

Roberts served as director of the Interfaith Witness Department of the North American Mission Board for the Southern Baptist Convention where, in 1998, he was responsible for producing the video ''The Mormon Puzzle.'' Roberts has also authored several other articles that are clearly anti-Mormon in tone and focus.

'''To read more:'''
* {{FR-10-1-12}}
* {{FR-18-2-189}}
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Sandra Tanner</h2>
|-
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Sandra Tanner and her late husband, Jerald Tanner, are certainly among the most prolific anti-Mormon authors. However, non-Mormon scholars of LDS issues have noted that the Tanners display a consistent bias in their work:

:''[The Tanners] always assume the worst possible motives in assessing the actions of Mormon leaders, even when those leaders faced extremely complex problems with no simple solutions.... Every bit of evidence, even if it could be most plausibly presented in a positive way, is represented as yet another nail in the coffin being prepared for the Mormon Church. There is no spectrum of colors, only blacks and whites, good guys and villains in the Tanners' published writings.... The Tanners have repeatedly assumed a holier-than-thou stance, refusing to be fair in applying the same debate standards of absolute rectitude which they demand of Mormonism to their own actions, writings, and beliefs.''
::<small>—{{Dialogue1|author=Lawrence Foster|article=Career Apostates:Reflections on the Works of Jerald and Sandra Tanner|vol=17|num=2|date=Summer 1984|start=45|end=46}}</small>

Sandra Tanner's research is agenda-driven and unreliable. Sincere seekers of the truth about Latter-day Saint beliefs and history deserve more reliable sources.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Jerald_and_Sandra_Tanner|Reviews of Jerald and Sandra Tanner]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Chip Thompson</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Chip Thompson director of Tri-Grace Ministries in Ephraim, UT. Tri-Grace Ministries runs a college house facility, which is "intended to be safe haven for all Christian students who attend Snow College." His advisory board includes:
:Bill Mckeever, (Mormon Research Ministries, Sandy, UT)
:Luke Wilson, (Institute for Religious Research, Grand Rapids, MI)
:Keith Walker, (Evidence Ministries, San Antonio, TX)
:Bob Betts, (Board Member, Concerned Christians, Mesa, AZ)
:Timothy Oliver, (Utah Director, Watchman Fellowship, Santaquin, UT)

It is curious that a facility for college students should have a board composed entirely of professional anti-Mormons.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">John Whitcomb</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Dr. John Whitcomb, Th.D., is president of Whitcomb Ministries and co-author of ''The Genesis Flood.'' Whitcomb is a creationist who believes in a young earth and a global flood.

|-
|}



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{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5fffa"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#003366;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #258;text-align:left;color:#fff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jump to...</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"| <small>{{DVD25March2007-ToC}}</small>
|-
|}
|}

{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Music Video

2007-03-23T12:50:46Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Music Video}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">A very nice music video showing some of God's wonderful creations and a few text-overlay quotations from the Bible reminding us that it is through Christ that we are saved. "Give Me Jesus" is sung by Stephanie LeBarge.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
We appreciate the reminder of the God's beautiful creations and that accepting Christ is the path to happiness both in this life and life after death. This portion of the video is well-done, includes some gorgeous scenery and lovely music, and we certainly agree with the Bible quotations that admonish us to seek and follow Christ.

'''To read more:'''
* Links

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Question #2</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Answer #2

'''To read more:'''
* Links
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Question #3</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

'''To read more:'''
* Links
|-
|}



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{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5fffa"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#003366;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #258;text-align:left;color:#fff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jump to...</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"| <small>{{DVD25March2007-ToC}}</small>
|-
|}
|}

{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/The Good Test

2007-03-23T12:28:43Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Special Features: The Good Test}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">This portion of the video contains random interviews with numerous people asking them if they have ever lied, stolen, cheated, etc. As the interviews progress it becomes obvious that we all have committed, and continue to commit sins. We all fall short of perfection. Justly judged on our actions, we would not be allowed into heaven. As the video points out, however, Christ died for our sins so that we might be saved.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Latter-day Saints wholeheartedly agree that we all fall short of perfection, that we cannot return to God solely by our own efforts or good works, and that the grace of Christ-- by way of his atoning sacrifice-- is necessary in order for us to be with Heavenly Father in the hereafter.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-

|}



| class="MainPageBG" style="width:40%;border:1px solid #cef2e0;background-color:#f5fffa;vertical-align:top;color:#000"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5fffa"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#003366;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #258;text-align:left;color:#fff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jump to...</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"| <small>{{DVD25March2007-ToC}}</small>
|-
|}
|}

{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/The Good Test

2007-03-23T12:28:05Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Special Features: The Good Test}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">This portion of the video contains random interviews with numerous people asking them if they have ever lied, stolen, cheated, etc. As the interviews progress it becomes obvious that we all have committed, and continue to commit sins. We all fall short of perfection. Justly judged on our actions we would not be allowed into heaven. As the video points out, however, Christ died for our sins so that we might be saved.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Latter-day Saints wholeheartedly agree that we all fall short of perfection, that we cannot return to God solely by our own efforts or good works, and that the grace of Christ-- by way of his atoning sacrifice-- is necessary in order for us to be with Heavenly Father in the hereafter.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">QUESTION</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-

|}



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{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5fffa"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#003366;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #258;text-align:left;color:#fff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jump to...</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"| <small>{{DVD25March2007-ToC}}</small>
|-
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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Credits

2007-03-22T17:41:13Z

MikeAsh:

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Credits

2007-03-22T17:38:11Z

MikeAsh:

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Call to Leaders

2007-03-22T13:32:12Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Call to LDS Leaders}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">This portion of the video calls for LDS leaders to stop the supposed deception of Mormonism.

"You’d be the hero of all time to the LDS people if you finally admitted Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Beloved you know that. That Mormonism is not true. The Book of Mormon is not true. Joseph Smith is not true. Joseph Smith deceived you and deceived your people. Don’t go on with this deception. So we pray of you, Mormon leaders, have the courage to admit that you’re wrong." (Floyd McElveen)

This implies that leaders actually know that Joseph Smith was a fraud and that the Book of Mormon is false, and that LDS leaders simply need to ''admit'' the decption and take the steps necessary to lead Mormons out of the Church and instead to Christ.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
The implication that LDS leaders actually know that the Mormonism is false has become fashionable in some anti-Mormon circles. This claims is designed to add credibility to the anti-Mormon accusation that the LDS Church is not only wrong, but deceptive. Most critics know that the greatest damage can be done to an LDS testimony if a member comes to believe that the Church (or LDS leaders) is deceitful or hiding something. Many people handle conflicting information without jeopardizing their testimonies, but most people can't handle the feeling of being lied to. Generally, once someone feels that the Church has deceived them, they are no longer willing to examine rebuttals to anti-Mormon accusations. Critics are keenly aware that in many (if not most) instances it is not the anti-LDS information itself that generally makes people leave, but it's the perception that the information was "hidden." It is the feelings of deception and betrayal that ultimately drive people out the Church.

The fact is, however, that LDS leaders give of their time (a tremendous amount of time) and talents, because they love Christ, they love God's children, and they believe that the Church is true. Many LDS leaders give up lucrative professions and sacrifice time they could be spending in retirement or with family, to dedicate themselves to the Restored Gospel. They really believe in the the teachings of the Church and they labor continuously leading people to Christ and the fulness of the Gospel as found the latter-day church that Christ restored.

'''To read more:'''
* Links

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Question #2</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Answer #2

'''To read more:'''
* Links
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Question #3</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

'''To read more:'''
* Links
|-
|}



| class="MainPageBG" style="width:40%;border:1px solid #cef2e0;background-color:#f5fffa;vertical-align:top;color:#000"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5fffa"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#003366;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #258;text-align:left;color:#fff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jump to...</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"| <small>{{DVD25March2007-ToC}}</small>
|-
|}
|}

{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Call to Leaders

2007-03-22T13:30:29Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Call to LDS Leaders}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">This portion of the video calls for LDS leaders to stop the supposed deception of Mormonism. "You’d be the hero of all time to the LDS people if you finally admitted Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Beloved you know that. That Mormonism is not true. The Book of Mormon is not true. Joseph Smith is not true. Joseph Smith deceived you and deceived your people. Don’t go on with this deception. So we pray of you, Mormon leaders, have the courage to admit that you’re wrong." This implies that leaders actually know that Joseph Smith was a fraud and that the Book of Mormon is false, and that LDS leaders simply need to ''admit'' the decption and take the steps necessary to lead Mormons out of the Church and instead to Christ.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
The implication that LDS leaders actually know that the Mormonism is false has become fashionable in some anti-Mormon circles. This claims is designed to add credibility to the anti-Mormon accusation that the LDS Church is not only wrong, but deceptive. Most critics know that the greatest damage can be done to an LDS testimony if a member comes to believe that the Church (or LDS leaders) is deceitful or hiding something. Many people handle conflicting information without jeopardizing their testimonies, but most people can't handle the feeling of being lied to. Generally, once someone feels that the Church has deceived them, they are no longer willing to examine rebuttals to anti-Mormon accusations. Critics are keenly aware that in many (if not most) instances it is not the anti-LDS information itself that generally makes people leave, but it's the perception that the information was "hidden." It is the feelings of deception and betrayal that ultimately drive people out the Church.

The fact is, however, that LDS leaders give of their time (a tremendous amount of time) and talents, because they love Christ, they love God's children, and they believe that the Church is true. Many LDS leaders give up lucrative professions and sacrifice time they could be spending in retirement or with family, to dedicate themselves to the Restored Gospel. They really believe in the the teachings of the Church and they labor continuously leading people to Christ and the fulness of the Gospel as found the latter-day church that Christ restored.

'''To read more:'''
* Links

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Question #2</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Answer #2

'''To read more:'''
* Links
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Question #3</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

'''To read more:'''
* Links
|-
|}



| class="MainPageBG" style="width:40%;border:1px solid #cef2e0;background-color:#f5fffa;vertical-align:top;color:#000"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5fffa"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#003366;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #258;text-align:left;color:#fff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jump to...</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"| <small>{{DVD25March2007-ToC}}</small>
|-
|}
|}

{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Call to Leaders

2007-03-22T13:28:18Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Call to LDS Leaders}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">This portion of the video calls for LDS leaders to stop the supposed deception of Mormonism. It implies that leaders actually know that Joseph Smith was a fraud and that the Book of Mormon is false, and asks that LDS leaders take the steps necessary to lead Mormons out of the Church and instead to Christ.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
The implication that LDS leaders actually know that the Mormonism is false has become fashionable in some anti-Mormon circles. This claims is designed to add credibility to the anti-Mormon accusation that the LDS Church is not only wrong, but deceptive. Most critics know that the greatest damage can be done to an LDS testimony if a member comes to believe that the Church (or LDS leaders) is deceitful or hiding something. Many people handle conflicting information without jeopardizing their testimonies, but most people can't handle the feeling of being lied to. Generally, once someone feels that the Church has deceived them, they are no longer willing to examine rebuttals to anti-Mormon accusations. Critics are keenly aware that in many (if not most) instances it is not the anti-LDS information itself that generally makes people leave, but it's the perception that the information was "hidden." It is the feelings of deception and betrayal that ultimately drive people out the Church.

The fact is, however, that LDS leaders give of their time (a tremendous amount of time) and talents, because they love Christ, they love God's children, and they believe that the Church is true. Many LDS leaders give up lucrative professions and sacrifice time they could be spending in retirement or with family, to dedicate themselves to the Restored Gospel. They really believe in the the teachings of the Church and they labor continuously leading people to Christ and the fulness of the Gospel as found the latter-day church that Christ restored.

'''To read more:'''
* Links

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Question #2</h2>
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Answer #2

'''To read more:'''
* Links
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Question #3</h2>
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'''To read more:'''
* Links
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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Call to Leaders

2007-03-22T13:25:44Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Call to LDS Leaders}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
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{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">This portion of the video calls for LDS leaders to stop the supposed deception of Mormonism. It implies that leaders actually know that Joseph Smith was a fraud and that the Book of Mormon is false, and asks that LDS leaders take the steps necessary to lead Mormons out of the Church and instead to Christ.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
The implication that LDS leaders actually know that the Mormonism is false has become fashionable in some anti-Mormon circles. This claims is designed to add credibility to the anti-Mormon accusation that the LDS Church is not only wrong, but deceptive. Most critics know that the greatest damage can be done to an LDS testimony if a member comes to believe that the Church (or LDS leaders) is deceitful or hiding something. Many people handle conflicting information without jeopardizing their testimonies, but most people can't handle the feeling of being lied to. Generally, once someone feels that the Church has deceived them, they are no longer willing to examine rebuttals to anti-Mormon accusations. Critics are keenly aware that in many (if not most) it is not generally the anti-LDS information itself that makes people leave, but the perception that the information was "hidden." It is the feelings of deception and betrayal that ultimately drive people out.

The fact is, however, that LDS leaders give of their time (a tremendous amount of time) and talents, because they love Christ, they love God's children, and they believe that the Church is true. Many LDS leaders give up lucrative professions and sacrifice time they could be spending in retirement or with family, to dedicate themselves to the Restored Gospel. They really believe in the the teachings of the Church and they work to lead people to Christ-- the fulness of the Gospel-- as found the latter-day church that Christ restored.

'''To read more:'''
* Links

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Question #2</h2>
|-
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Answer #2

'''To read more:'''
* Links
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Question #3</h2>
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'''To read more:'''
* Links
|-
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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Call to Leaders

2007-03-22T13:24:32Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Call to LDS Leaders}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
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{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">This portion of the video calls for LDS leaders to stop the supposed deception of Mormonism. It implies that leaders actually know that Joseph Smith was a fraud and that the Book of Mormon is false, and asks that LDS leaders take the steps necessary to lead Mormons out of the Church and instead to Christ.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
The implication that LDS leaders actually know that the Mormonism is false has become fashionable in some anti-Mormon circles. This claims is designed to add credibility to the anti-Mormon accusation that the LDS Church is not only wrong, but deceptive. Most critics know that the greatest damage can be done to an LDS testimony if a member comes to believe that the Church (or LDS leaders) is deceitful or hiding something. Many people handle conflicting information without jeopardizing their testimonies, but most people can handle the feeling of being lied to. Generally, once someone feels that the Church has deceived them, they are no longer willing to examine rebuttals to anti-Mormon accusations. Critics are keenly aware that in many (if not most) it is not generally the anti-LDS information itself that makes people leave, but the perception that the information was "hidden." It is the feelings of deception and betrayal that ultimately drive people out.

The fact is, however, that LDS leaders give of their time (a tremendous amount of time) and talents, because they love Christ, they love God's children, and they believe that the Church is true. Many LDS leaders give up lucrative professions and sacrifice time they could be spending in retirement or with family, to dedicate themselves to the Restored Gospel. They really believe in the the teachings of the Church and they work to lead people to Christ-- the fulness of the Gospel-- as found the latter-day church that Christ restored.

'''To read more:'''
* Links

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Question #2</h2>
|-
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Answer #2

'''To read more:'''
* Links
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Question #3</h2>
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'''To read more:'''
* Links
|-
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| style="color:#000"| <small>{{DVD25March2007-ToC}}</small>
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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Witnessing to Mormons

2007-03-21T13:35:34Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Witnessing to Mormons}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Joseph Smith was a liar, again and again he lied. Joseph Smith said that there were cities all over America that held many, many people in South and Central America. Not one city has ever been found. Not one crumb, not one remain, and yet in the Bible multitudes of cities have been found just as the Bible said." - Floyd McElveen</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

McElveen appears to know very little amount pre-Columbian history. There ''were'' cities all over South and Central America filled with people. In fact, Joseph Smith's conception of what pre-Columbian America was like was unusual for his era. When he discovered an 1842 book describing Central American ruins, he was surprised and pleased to have someone from the secular world confirm the Book of Mormon's portrait of pre-Columbian life. When the Book of Mormon was published, Amerindians were perceived as being generally without "high culture," writing, cities, and other trappings of "advanced civilization."

McElveen's complaint about the status of Book of Mormon vs. Bible archaeology is simply a rehash of DVD material presented earlier. (See [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Archaeology|here]] for responses.)

LDS Mesoamerican scholar John Clark has presented numerous "direct hits" for the Book of Mormon that were unknown when the Book of Mormon was published.

However, McElveen and associates have either misrepresented or "lied" "again and again" over the course of the video.

'''To read more:'''
*{{JBMS-14-2-8}}
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]
*{{Ensign|author=Daniel C. Peterson|article=Mounting Evidence for the Book of Mormon|vol=30|num=1|date=January 2000|start=18|end=24}}{{link|url=http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=741f6a4430c0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Joseph Smith was a complete deceiver. He deceived people into believing that he had a revelation from God when he did not. The Book of Abraham has been proven false and Joseph Smith along with it. The DNA evidence showed he was false about what he said that the Lamanites and then the Indians descended from Israel—from the Jews. It was proven that they did not. He lied about that. He was a liar from the very beginning." - Floyd McElveen
</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
The DVD participants apparently believe that they can merely make claims, and have them be accepted. All of these issues have already been addressed, and remain false.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Prophecy_and_Revelation|Prophecy and revelation]]
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:First Vision|First Vision]]
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Book of Abraham|Book of Abraham]]
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:DNA|DNA]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Do you want to know truth about who God is and how to know Him and how to be with Him forever? Then listen to this book, which is free of error because God can’t lie. He makes no mistakes." - Dr. John Whitcomb</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Latter-day Saints accept the Bible as the Word of God. We, like other Christians, believe that studying the Bible will draw us closer to the divine. We also agree that God doesn't lie or make mistakes. Can a book, however, that was written by imperfect mortals, in imperfect languages, copied by imperfect copiest, translated by imperfect translators, and intepreted by imperfect readers be "free of error"? The Bible itself does not claim to be error-free, and studies of the Bible and the inherent ambiguity which exists in all languages demonstrates that no writing is truly free of error.

* Links http://fairlds.org/apol/ai103.html
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "It’s a question of what the truth is. It’s a question of what the evidence is. It’s a question of, did a man come along 1800 years into the history of Christianity and totally revise what Christianity says and what the Bible says? And that’s what we believe Joseph Smith did." - Dr. Phil Roberts, President, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

It matters very little what Dr. Roberts, the Baptist Theological Seminary, or the other critics "think" Joseph Smith did. What matters is what Joseph claimed to do, and what the Latter-day Saints believe he did.

Joseph did not claim to "revise" Christianity, or alter what the Bible says. He claimed to ''restore'' Christianity to a purer state. LDS doctrine does not alter Biblical doctrines, but it does offer a different ''interpretation'' of the Biblical data. Dr. Roberts and his fellows are so utterly convinced that their view is the correct one that they seem unable to even conceive that someone might legitimately interpret the Bible differently.

Yet, Dr. Roberts' Baptist denomination is hardly younger than Joseph Smith's denomination, with historical roots in the 17th century at the earliest. Are we to instead believe that someone could reform Christianity without prophetic authority? Either Christianity persisted, uncontaminated, from the days of the apostles, or it was corrupted. If it became corrupted, by what authority did Dr. Roberts' denomination correct it? And, how can a neutral observer know if that authority is legitimate? The Bible certainly doesn't confer a divine mantle on the Baptists (or anyone else). Since we've been told that a witness of the Holy Spirit is off-limits, the critics have painted themselves into a corner.

{{nw}}

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "I would greatly encourage any Mormon or any person who is thinking about Mormonism to examine objectively the life of Joseph Smith, the reliability and the teachings of the Book of Mormon over against the Jesus of the New Testament and the reliability of the Bible and its truthfulness." - Dr. Phil Roberts, President, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

It's ironic that Dr. Roberts encourages an ''objective'' examination of Joseph Smith's life in a video that is anything but objective. The philosophies of science, history, and scholarship have shown that no one is completely objective, or free from all bias. All of us bring latent prejudices, and preconceived notions to the table when we approach a topic. Critics are already convinced that Mormonism is false before they produce their anti-Mormon material. The information presented in this video, for example, is one-sided, in some cases erroneous, and almost never lets the viewer know that some issues have alternative explanations or that there are rebuttals which adequately deal with their claims.

Latter-day Saints would also encourage Mormons and investigators to examine, as objectively as possible, the life of Joseph Smith. This must be done, however, with an open-mind and all the facts, not with the narrow-minded, dogmatic, and agenda-driven misinformation that is presented in this DVD.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "There is a tremendous amount of respect that I have for them and their dedication and how hard they are seeking and the burden that they are willing to carry in their impossible attempt to live up to their impossible gospel demands." - Joel Kramer, Director, Living Hope Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The reader is invited to consider just how much "respect" the Latter-day Saints and their faith have experienced from Mr. Kramer and his ministry.

Mr. Kramer again presumes to speak for the Latter-day Saints—they do not consider the demands which a merciful Christ puts upon them to be "impossible," or even onerous. As Jesus taught, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light" ({{s||Matthew|11|30}}).

Distorted ideas about the Latter-day Saints' views on salvation have already been addressed [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Eternal_Life|here]].

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Virtually every verse I quote in scripture is [given to my congregation] because you need to go home and check me out. You need to see what the Bible has to say not what John says, not what Joseph says, not what anybody says but God. What does God say about these issues? You need to check these things out. It is your soul—your eternal soul—that is on the line and there is no reset button at the judgment. There is no finger pointing: ‘But he misled me.’ You have an obligation for the sake of your soul as well as to be able to share the truth with your family, people you love, to check out what God’s word has to say on these issues and not what somebody else had to say and the answers are found only in the word of God which is the Bible." - John McCartney, Pastor, First Baptist Church of Tooele, Utah.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "What I’ve discovered is when you counter Mormon theology with biblical fact and you back them up into a corner they most always go back to, ‘Well I’ve experienced a testimony.’" - Roger Oakland, President, Understand the Times</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The reader is invited to consider whether ''any'' reply to any of the so-called "facts" presented by the ''Search for the Truth'' DVD have been answered with "Well, we at FAIR have a testimony."

Members of FAIR do have testimonies, but there are legitimate Biblical and historical answers to all the questions posed by the critics. No member can answer every objection from a hostile critic, especially one who is so convinced that ''their'' interpretation of the Bible is the only way in which a honest, Christian, God-fearing person could understand the text. But, an individual's inability to answer to the satisfaction of self-appointed "Christian" judges says nothing about the merits of any position.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE
</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "...when you ask them, ‘Well what do you mean by “the testimony?” Is that the burning in the bosom?’ They say, ‘Yes, of course, and you too could have the experience of the burning in the bosom all you need to do is ask God if what Joseph Smith said is true.’ Now isn’t this amazing? To stake your eternal life based on some kind of a feeling, a subjective feeling? Where would you find that in the scriptures? Absolutely nowhere." - Roger Oakland, President, Understand the Times</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "My faith that I will be spending eternity in heaven with Jesus Christ is dependent upon understanding who He is and what He’s done. The shed blood of Jesus Christ, His life was sacrificed upon the cross, His blood was shed, He died, He is resurrected—He lives today. And if I would believe in Him and who He is and what He’s done and acknowledge who I am and what I’ve done and ask for forgiveness then I can spend eternity with him. It has nothing to do with a burning in the bosom." - Roger Oakland, President, Understand the Times </h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "All you have to do is believe in Christ and be saved and confess it and then that’s it." - Tim Howard (Former Mormon) </h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "It don’t have to be I’ve got to join this Church and then on top of that I’ve got to pay my tithing to get a Temple recommend and then I’ve got to have a Temple recommend to get into the Temple and then I’ve got to go to the Temple so that I can live with God so that I can become a God so that I can go have a planet to not be with God. It just don’t make sense." - Tim Howard (Former Mormon)</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Why would you trust Joseph Smith over the Bible?" - Sandra Tanner, President, Utah Lighthouse Ministry</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

This is a false dilemma and begs the question. If Joseph Smith is a prophet of God, then we can trust him and the Bible.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "What is the criteria for testing a prophet? Let’s look at that and I would hope the person would then be able to see Joseph Smith doesn’t deserve the honor and recognition that they’ve always given to him. He doesn’t measure up against what God said in the Bible." - Sandra Tanner, President, Utah Lighthouse Ministry</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "You know, I thought to myself I’m teaching these kids, let alone my own kids, this song about a prophet that I don’t even believe is true." - Karen Howard (Former Mormon)</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

This is a bizarre objection. Ms. Howard was teaching her children something she didn't believe? No parent ought to teach children things that they don't believe are true. However, that Ms. Howard did so is no fault of the Church's. The Church constantly emphasizes the necessity of knowing for oneself if one is following the path approved by God.

Ms. Howard's belief or disbelief says nothing about the truth or falsehood of any belief.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "My heart, to see that people could know the truth because Jesus said if you know the truth the truth will set you free." - Scott Gallantin, Pastor, Calvary Chapel</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

If the truth is all that is necessary to set us free (and Latter-day Saints believe that it is), why has Pastor Gallantin chosen to lend his name to a DVD that distorts and lies about the faith of the Latter-day Saints? Why does he not present ''all'' the facts, or refuse to associate with those who will not?

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "And I’m sure that if you do that if you truly seek Him out in the Bible I’m sure that Jesus would begin to speak to you and you would know the truth." - Scott Gallantin, Pastor, Calvary Chapel</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

How does Pastor Gallantin know that Jesus does not speak to the Latter-day Saints as they read the Bible? (According to a Christian research group, a Latter-day Saint is statistically more likely to read the Bible during the week than Catholics or Protestants?) {{link|url=http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=103}}

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "And so my heart is that any Mormon who would be hearing this would be going back to the scriptures, challenging the words of Joseph Smith, comparing them to the words of Jesus—the one who died for you, the one who loves you. The one who is praying for you right now, interceding, he ever lives to make intercession for you right now."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Once again, the critics are claiming that the Mormons have some "different" Jesus that they need to abandon, and turn to "Jesus--the one who died for you, the one who loves you. The one who is praying for you right now, interceding, he ever lives to make intercession for you..."

One grows weary of repeating it, but these are all doctrines believed and taught by the Latter-day Saints:
* Christ died for us ({{s||Jacob|1|8}}, {{s||Mosiah|3|7}}, {{s||Helaman|14|20}})
* Christ loves us ({{s|3|Nephi|17|5-22}}, {{s||Moroni|7|48}})
* Christ prays for us to the Father ({{s|3|Nephi|17|15-22}}, {{s|3|Nephi|18|23-25}}).
* Christ makes intercession for us ({{s|2|Nephi|2|9-10}}, {{s||Mosiah|14|12}}, {{s||Mosiah|15|5}}, {{s||DC|45|3-5}}.)

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Now I just ask you a simple question, do you want to trust Joseph Smith who is a fraud, a womanizer, many wives, a false prophet, the Book of Mormon? There’s nothing to support it, all the evidence says to the contrary. Or would you trust Jesus Christ who is the Savior, who is God, who became a man?...Now where do you want to rest your hope for eternity? In Joseph Smith or in Jesus Christ and His word?" - Dave Hunt, Author and Founder, Berean Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Once again this is a false dilemma and begs the question of Joseph's prophetic authority. Was Joseph Smith an imperfect mortal? Certainly. Was Paul an imperfect mortal? Of course. Do we trust Paul's record of his encounter with the divine? Is there evidence to support Paul's theophany? Do we trust Paul ''instead'' of Christ? This is the type of silly false dilemma argued by Dave Hunt.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "And the Bible is supported by hundreds, even thousands of prophecies, proofs, evidence, history, archaeology—we can prove it." - Dave Hunt, Author and Founder, Berean Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

While Latter-day Saints would agree that there is evidence-- both secular and spiritual-- to support the Bible as a mostly accurate narrative and as the Word of God, it's false to imply that the Bible has been proven to be the Word of God by secular means, and it's inaccurate to claim that we can "prove" the Bible by archaeology and history. Many biblical scholars and archaeologists believe that numerous Bible stories are myths or fabrications. Some question various parts of its history or doubt the reality of miracles and the resurrection. Archaeology and history certainly can not "prove" that Jesus is the Son of God, or that he atoned for our sins.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "I was born and raised a Mormon for 37 years...Everything took a back seat to the Church including, as I look back, my family." - Randy Gavin, Former Salt Lake Stake Mission President</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

One has to chuckle at the "position" given Mr. Gavin. Non-members may find such a title impressive, but the Latter-day Saints would not. A "stake mission president" is a part-time position held by assignment, for a period of time, in every LDS "stake." A "stake" is an ecclesiastical unit of roughly ten congregations. Thus, in Salt Lake City there are dozens of stakes, and hundreds of current and former "stake mission presidents."

If Mr. Gavin put his family in the "back seat" to Church duties, the Church is not to blame for that. In fact, Mr. Gavin violated the clear teachings of the Church by putting family before Church duties. That he did so indicates that he did not understand even the fundamentals of LDS doctrine, regardless of being "raised a Mormon for 37 years." His poor choices in this most vital of matters make him a poor witness for how "Mormons" understand things.

Mr. Gavin and interested readers may wish to review the Church's teachings on family.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Church over family|Church over family?]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "I remember sitting on the edge of my bed and weeping as the recognition that I had been lied to crept in upon me." - Randy Gavin, Former Salt Lake Stake Mission President</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

If Mr. Gavin believed he was lied to, then he can doubtless understand how offensive it is for the Latter-day Saints when their doctrine and their history is repeatedly lied about over the course of a ninety minute DVD.

What is harder to understand is why Mr. Gavin would participate in a venture which lies about others. One can only hope that he still does not understand LDS doctrine and practice, as he evidently did not prior to leaving the Church.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "When Jesus says if the Son set you free you should be free indeed He really means it. The thing that broke forth on me was that the Bible really is the real thing there’s no fantasy to it. It reveals reality to us." - Randy Gavin, Former Salt Lake Stake Mission President</h2>
|-
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ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Witnessing to Mormons

2007-03-21T13:16:20Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Witnessing to Mormons}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Joseph Smith was a liar, again and again he lied. Joseph Smith said that there were cities all over America that held many, many people in South and Central America. Not one city has ever been found. Not one crumb, not one remain, and yet in the Bible multitudes of cities have been found just as the Bible said." - Floyd McElveen</h2>
|-
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McElveen appears to know very little amount pre-Columbian history. There ''were'' cities all over South and Central America filled with people. In fact, Joseph Smith's conception of what pre-Columbian America was like was unusual for his era. When he discovered an 1842 book describing Central American ruins, he was surprised and pleased to have someone from the secular world confirm the Book of Mormon's portrait of pre-Columbian life. When the Book of Mormon was published, Amerindians were perceived as being generally without "high culture," writing, cities, and other trappings of "advanced civilization."

McElveen's complaint about the status of Book of Mormon vs. Bible archaeology is simply a rehash of DVD material presented earlier. (See [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Archaeology|here]] for responses.)

LDS Mesoamerican scholar John Clark has presented numerous "direct hits" for the Book of Mormon that were unknown when the Book of Mormon was published.

However, McElveen and associates have either misrepresented or "lied" "again and again" over the course of the video.

'''To read more:'''
*{{JBMS-14-2-8}}
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]
*{{Ensign|author=Daniel C. Peterson|article=Mounting Evidence for the Book of Mormon|vol=30|num=1|date=January 2000|start=18|end=24}}{{link|url=http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=741f6a4430c0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Joseph Smith was a complete deceiver. He deceived people into believing that he had a revelation from God when he did not. The Book of Abraham has been proven false and Joseph Smith along with it. The DNA evidence showed he was false about what he said that the Lamanites and then the Indians descended from Israel—from the Jews. It was proven that they did not. He lied about that. He was a liar from the very beginning." - Floyd McElveen
</h2>
|-
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The DVD participants apparently believe that they can merely make claims, and have them be accepted. All of these issues have already been addressed, and remain false.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Prophecy_and_Revelation|Prophecy and revelation]]
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:First Vision|First Vision]]
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Book of Abraham|Book of Abraham]]
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:DNA|DNA]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Do you want to know truth about who God is and how to know Him and how to be with Him forever? Then listen to this book, which is free of error because God can’t lie. He makes no mistakes." - Dr. John Whitcomb</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Latter-day Saints accept the Bible as the Word of God. We, like other Christians, believe that studying the Bible will draw us closer to the divine. We also agree that God doesn't lie or make mistakes. Can a book, however, that was written by imperfect mortals, in imperfect languages, copied by imperfect copiest, translated by imperfect translators, and intepreted by imperfect readers be "free of error"? The Bible itself does not claim to be error-free, and studies of the Bible and the inherent ambiguity which exists in all languages demonstrates that no writing is truly free of error.

* Links http://fairlds.org/apol/ai103.html
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "It’s a question of what the truth is. It’s a question of what the evidence is. It’s a question of, did a man come along 1800 years into the history of Christianity and totally revise what Christianity says and what the Bible says? And that’s what we believe Joseph Smith did." - Dr. Phil Roberts, President, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

It matters very little what Dr. Roberts, the Baptist Theological Seminary, or the other critics "think" Joseph Smith did. What matters is what Joseph claimed to do, and what the Latter-day Saints believe he did.

Joseph did not claim to "revise" Christianity, or alter what the Bible says. He claimed to ''restore'' Christianity to a purer state. LDS doctrine does not alter Biblical doctrines, but it does offer a different ''interpretation'' of the Biblical data. Dr. Roberts and his fellows are so utterly convinced that their view is the correct one that they seem unable to even conceive that someone might legitimately interpret the Bible differently.

Yet, Dr. Roberts' Baptist denomination is hardly younger than Joseph Smith's denomination, with historical roots in the 17th century at the earliest. Are we to instead believe that someone could reform Christianity without prophetic authority? Either Christianity persisted, uncontaminated, from the days of the apostles, or it was corrupted. If it became corrupted, by what authority did Dr. Roberts' denomination correct it? And, how can a neutral observer know if that authority is legitimate? The Bible certainly doesn't confer a divine mantle on the Baptists (or anyone else). Since we've been told that a witness of the Holy Spirit is off-limits, the critics have painted themselves into a corner.

{{nw}}

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "I would greatly encourage any Mormon or any person who is thinking about Mormonism to examine objectively the life of Joseph Smith, the reliability and the teachings of the Book of Mormon over against the Jesus of the New Testament and the reliability of the Bible and its truthfulness." - Dr. Phil Roberts, President, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary</h2>
|-
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It's ironic that Dr. Roberts encourages an ''objective'' examination of Joseph Smith's life in a video that is anything but objective. The philosophies of science, history, and scholarship have shown that no one is completely objective, or free from all bias. All of us bring latent prejudices, and preconceived notions to the table when we approach a topic. Critics are already convinced that Mormonism is false before they produce their anti-Mormon material. The information presented in this video, for example, is one-sided, in some cases erroneous, and almost never lets the viewer know that some issues have alternative explanations or that there are rebuttals which adequately deal with their claims.

Latter-day Saints would also encourage Mormons and investigators to examine, as objectively as possible, the life of Joseph Smith. This must be done, however, with an open-mind and all the facts, not with the narrow-minded, dogmatic, and agenda-driven misinformation that is presented in this DVD.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "There is a tremendous amount of respect that I have for them and their dedication and how hard they are seeking and the burden that they are willing to carry in their impossible attempt to live up to their impossible gospel demands." - Joel Kramer, Director, Living Hope Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The reader is invited to consider just how much "respect" the Latter-day Saints and their faith have experienced from Mr. Kramer and his ministry.

Mr. Kramer again presumes to speak for the Latter-day Saints—they do not consider the demands which a merciful Christ puts upon them to be "impossible," or even onerous. As Jesus taught, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light" ({{s||Matthew|11|30}}).

Distorted ideas about the Latter-day Saints' views on salvation have already been addressed [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Eternal_Life|here]].

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Virtually every verse I quote in scripture is [given to my congregation] because you need to go home and check me out. You need to see what the Bible has to say not what John says, not what Joseph says, not what anybody says but God. What does God say about these issues? You need to check these things out. It is your soul—your eternal soul—that is on the line and there is no reset button at the judgment. There is no finger pointing: ‘But he misled me.’ You have an obligation for the sake of your soul as well as to be able to share the truth with your family, people you love, to check out what God’s word has to say on these issues and not what somebody else had to say and the answers are found only in the word of God which is the Bible." - John McCartney, Pastor, First Baptist Church of Tooele, Utah.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "What I’ve discovered is when you counter Mormon theology with biblical fact and you back them up into a corner they most always go back to, ‘Well I’ve experienced a testimony.’" - Roger Oakland, President, Understand the Times</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The reader is invited to consider whether ''any'' reply to any of the so-called "facts" presented by the ''Search for the Truth'' DVD have been answered with "Well, we at FAIR have a testimony."

Members of FAIR do have testimonies, but there are legitimate Biblical and historical answers to all the questions posed by the critics. No member can answer every objection from a hostile critic, especially one who is so convinced that ''their'' interpretation of the Bible is the only way in which a honest, Christian, God-fearing person could understand the text. But, an individual's inability to answer to the satisfaction of self-appointed "Christian" judges says nothing about the merits of any position.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE
</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "...when you ask them, ‘Well what do you mean by “the testimony?” Is that the burning in the bosom?’ They say, ‘Yes, of course, and you too could have the experience of the burning in the bosom all you need to do is ask God if what Joseph Smith said is true.’ Now isn’t this amazing? To stake your eternal life based on some kind of a feeling, a subjective feeling? Where would you find that in the scriptures? Absolutely nowhere." - Roger Oakland, President, Understand the Times</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "My faith that I will be spending eternity in heaven with Jesus Christ is dependent upon understanding who He is and what He’s done. The shed blood of Jesus Christ, His life was sacrificed upon the cross, His blood was shed, He died, He is resurrected—He lives today. And if I would believe in Him and who He is and what He’s done and acknowledge who I am and what I’ve done and ask for forgiveness then I can spend eternity with him. It has nothing to do with a burning in the bosom." - Roger Oakland, President, Understand the Times </h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "All you have to do is believe in Christ and be saved and confess it and then that’s it." - Tim Howard (Former Mormon) </h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "It don’t have to be I’ve got to join this Church and then on top of that I’ve got to pay my tithing to get a Temple recommend and then I’ve got to have a Temple recommend to get into the Temple and then I’ve got to go to the Temple so that I can live with God so that I can become a God so that I can go have a planet to not be with God. It just don’t make sense." - Tim Howard (Former Mormon)</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Why would you trust Joseph Smith over the Bible?" - Sandra Tanner, President, Utah Lighthouse Ministry</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "What is the criteria for testing a prophet? Let’s look at that and I would hope the person would then be able to see Joseph Smith doesn’t deserve the honor and recognition that they’ve always given to him. He doesn’t measure up against what God said in the Bible." - Sandra Tanner, President, Utah Lighthouse Ministry</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "You know, I thought to myself I’m teaching these kids, let alone my own kids, this song about a prophet that I don’t even believe is true." - Karen Howard (Former Mormon)</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

This is a bizarre objection. Ms. Howard was teaching her children something she didn't believe? No parent ought to teach children things that they don't believe are true. However, that Ms. Howard did so is no fault of the Church's. The Church constantly emphasizes the necessity of knowing for oneself if one is following the path approved by God.

Ms. Howard's belief or disbelief says nothing about the truth or falsehood of any belief.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "My heart, to see that people could know the truth because Jesus said if you know the truth the truth will set you free." - Scott Gallantin, Pastor, Calvary Chapel</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

If the truth is all that is necessary to set us free (and Latter-day Saints believe that it is), why has Pastor Gallantin chosen to lend his name to a DVD that distorts and lies about the faith of the Latter-day Saints? Why does he not present ''all'' the facts, or refuse to associate with those who will not?

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "And I’m sure that if you do that if you truly seek Him out in the Bible I’m sure that Jesus would begin to speak to you and you would know the truth." - Scott Gallantin, Pastor, Calvary Chapel</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

How does Pastor Gallantin know that Jesus does not speak to the Latter-day Saints as they read the Bible? (According to a Christian research group, a Latter-day Saint is statistically more likely to read the Bible during the week than Catholics or Protestants?) {{link|url=http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=103}}

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "And so my heart is that any Mormon who would be hearing this would be going back to the scriptures, challenging the words of Joseph Smith, comparing them to the words of Jesus—the one who died for you, the one who loves you. The one who is praying for you right now, interceding, he ever lives to make intercession for you right now."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Once again, the critics are claiming that the Mormons have some "different" Jesus that they need to abandon, and turn to "Jesus--the one who died for you, the one who loves you. The one who is praying for you right now, interceding, he ever lives to make intercession for you..."

One grows weary of repeating it, but these are all doctrines believed and taught by the Latter-day Saints:
* Christ died for us ({{s||Jacob|1|8}}, {{s||Mosiah|3|7}}, {{s||Helaman|14|20}})
* Christ loves us ({{s|3|Nephi|17|5-22}}, {{s||Moroni|7|48}})
* Christ prays for us to the Father ({{s|3|Nephi|17|15-22}}, {{s|3|Nephi|18|23-25}}).
* Christ makes intercession for us ({{s|2|Nephi|2|9-10}}, {{s||Mosiah|14|12}}, {{s||Mosiah|15|5}}, {{s||DC|45|3-5}}.)

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Now I just ask you a simple question, do you want to trust Joseph Smith who is a fraud, a womanizer, many wives, a false prophet, the Book of Mormon? There’s nothing to support it, all the evidence says to the contrary. Or would you trust Jesus Christ who is the Savior, who is God, who became a man?...Now where do you want to rest your hope for eternity? In Joseph Smith or in Jesus Christ and His word?" - Dave Hunt, Author and Founder, Berean Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "And the Bible is supported by hundreds, even thousands of prophecies, proofs, evidence, history, archaeology—we can prove it." - Dave Hunt, Author and Founder, Berean Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "I was born and raised a Mormon for 37 years...Everything took a back seat to the Church including, as I look back, my family." - Randy Gavin, Former Salt Lake Stake Mission President</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

One has to chuckle at the "position" given Mr. Gavin. Non-members may find such a title impressive, but the Latter-day Saints would not. A "stake mission president" is a part-time position held by assignment, for a period of time, in every LDS "stake." A "stake" is an ecclesiastical unit of roughly ten congregations. Thus, in Salt Lake City there are dozens of stakes, and hundreds of current and former "stake mission presidents."

If Mr. Gavin put his family in the "back seat" to Church duties, the Church is not to blame for that. In fact, Mr. Gavin violated the clear teachings of the Church by putting family before Church duties. That he did so indicates that he did not understand even the fundamentals of LDS doctrine, regardless of being "raised a Mormon for 37 years." His poor choices in this most vital of matters make him a poor witness for how "Mormons" understand things.

Mr. Gavin and interested readers may wish to review the Church's teachings on family.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Church over family|Church over family?]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "I remember sitting on the edge of my bed and weeping as the recognition that I had been lied to crept in upon me." - Randy Gavin, Former Salt Lake Stake Mission President</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

If Mr. Gavin believed he was lied to, then he can doubtless understand how offensive it is for the Latter-day Saints when their doctrine and their history is repeatedly lied about over the course of a ninety minute DVD.

What is harder to understand is why Mr. Gavin would participate in a venture which lies about others. One can only hope that he still does not understand LDS doctrine and practice, as he evidently did not prior to leaving the Church.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "When Jesus says if the Son set you free you should be free indeed He really means it. The thing that broke forth on me was that the Bible really is the real thing there’s no fantasy to it. It reveals reality to us." - Randy Gavin, Former Salt Lake Stake Mission President</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Witnessing to Mormons

2007-03-21T13:14:46Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Witnessing to Mormons}}

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Joseph Smith was a liar, again and again he lied. Joseph Smith said that there were cities all over America that held many, many people in South and Central America. Not one city has ever been found. Not one crumb, not one remain, and yet in the Bible multitudes of cities have been found just as the Bible said." - Floyd McElveen</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

McElveen appears to know very little amount pre-Columbian history. There ''were'' cities all over South and Central America filled with people. In fact, Joseph Smith's conception of what pre-Columbian America was like was unusual for his era. When he discovered an 1842 book describing Central American ruins, he was surprised and pleased to have someone from the secular world confirm the Book of Mormon's portrait of pre-Columbian life. When the Book of Mormon was published, Amerindians were perceived as being generally without "high culture," writing, cities, and other trappings of "advanced civilization."

McElveen's complaint about the status of Book of Mormon vs. Bible archaeology is simply a rehash of DVD material presented earlier. (See [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Archaeology|here]] for responses.)

LDS Mesoamerican scholar John Clark has presented numerous "direct hits" for the Book of Mormon that were unknown when the Book of Mormon was published.

However, McElveen and associates have either misrepresented or "lied" "again and again" over the course of the video.

'''To read more:'''
*{{JBMS-14-2-8}}
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]
*{{Ensign|author=Daniel C. Peterson|article=Mounting Evidence for the Book of Mormon|vol=30|num=1|date=January 2000|start=18|end=24}}{{link|url=http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=741f6a4430c0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Joseph Smith was a complete deceiver. He deceived people into believing that he had a revelation from God when he did not. The Book of Abraham has been proven false and Joseph Smith along with it. The DNA evidence showed he was false about what he said that the Lamanites and then the Indians descended from Israel—from the Jews. It was proven that they did not. He lied about that. He was a liar from the very beginning." - Floyd McElveen
</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
The DVD participants apparently believe that they can merely make claims, and have them be accepted. All of these issues have already been addressed, and remain false.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Prophecy_and_Revelation|Prophecy and revelation]]
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:First Vision|First Vision]]
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Book of Abraham|Book of Abraham]]
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:DNA|DNA]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Do you want to know truth about who God is and how to know Him and how to be with Him forever? Then listen to this book, which is free of error because God can’t lie. He makes no mistakes." - Dr. John Whitcomb</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Latter-day Saints accept the Bible as the Word of God. We, like other Christians, believe that studying the Bible will draw us closer to the divine. We also agree that God doesn't lie or make mistakes. Can a book, however, that was written by imperfect mortals, in imperfect languages, copied by imperfect copiest, translated by imperfect translators, and intepreted by imperfect readers be "free of error"? The Bible itself does not claim to be error-free, and studies of the Bible and the inherent ambiguity which exists in all languages demonstrates that no writing is truly free of error.

* Links http://fairlds.org/apol/ai103.html
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "It’s a question of what the truth is. It’s a question of what the evidence is. It’s a question of, did a man come along 1800 years into the history of Christianity and totally revise what Christianity says and what the Bible says? And that’s what we believe Joseph Smith did." - Dr. Phil Roberts, President, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

It matters very little what Dr. Roberts, the Baptist Theological Seminary, or the other critics "think" Joseph Smith did. What matters is what Joseph claimed to do, and what the Latter-day Saints believe he did.

Joseph did not claim to "revise" Christianity, or alter what the Bible says. He claimed to ''restore'' Christianity to a purer state. LDS doctrine does not alter Biblical doctrines, but it does offer a different ''interpretation'' of the Biblical data. Dr. Roberts and his fellows are so utterly convinced that their view is the correct one that they seem unable to even conceive that someone might legitimately interpret the Bible differently.

Yet, Dr. Roberts' Baptist denomination is hardly younger than Joseph Smith's denomination, with historical roots in the 17th century at the earliest. Are we to instead believe that someone could reform Christianity without prophetic authority? Either Christianity persisted, uncontaminated, from the days of the apostles, or it was corrupted. If it became corrupted, by what authority did Dr. Roberts' denomination correct it? And, how can a neutral observer know if that authority is legitimate? The Bible certainly doesn't confer a divine mantle on the Baptists (or anyone else). Since we've been told that a witness of the Holy Spirit is off-limits, the critics have painted themselves into a corner.

{{nw}}

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "I would greatly encourage any Mormon or any person who is thinking about Mormonism to examine objectively the life of Joseph Smith, the reliability and the teachings of the Book of Mormon over against the Jesus of the New Testament and the reliability of the Bible and its truthfulness." - Dr. Phil Roberts, President, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

It's ironic that Dr. Roberts encourages an ''objective'' examination of Joseph Smith's life in a video that is anything but objective. The philosophies of science, history, and scholarship have shown that no one is completely objective, or free from all bias. All of us bring latent prejudices, and preconceived notions to the table when we approach a topic. Most critics are already convinced that Mormonism is false before they produce their anti-Mormon material. The information presented in this video, for example, is one-sided, in some cases erroneous, and almost never lets the viewer know that some issues have alternative explanations or that rebuttals that adequately deal with their claims.

Latter-day Saints would also encourage Mormons and investigators to examine, as objectively as possible, the life of Joseph Smith. This must be done, however, with an open-mind and all the facts, not with the narrow-minded, dogmatic, and agenda-driven misinformation that is presented in this DVD.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "There is a tremendous amount of respect that I have for them and their dedication and how hard they are seeking and the burden that they are willing to carry in their impossible attempt to live up to their impossible gospel demands." - Joel Kramer, Director, Living Hope Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The reader is invited to consider just how much "respect" the Latter-day Saints and their faith have experienced from Mr. Kramer and his ministry.

Mr. Kramer again presumes to speak for the Latter-day Saints—they do not consider the demands which a merciful Christ puts upon them to be "impossible," or even onerous. As Jesus taught, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light" ({{s||Matthew|11|30}}).

Distorted ideas about the Latter-day Saints' views on salvation have already been addressed [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Eternal_Life|here]].

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Virtually every verse I quote in scripture is [given to my congregation] because you need to go home and check me out. You need to see what the Bible has to say not what John says, not what Joseph says, not what anybody says but God. What does God say about these issues? You need to check these things out. It is your soul—your eternal soul—that is on the line and there is no reset button at the judgment. There is no finger pointing: ‘But he misled me.’ You have an obligation for the sake of your soul as well as to be able to share the truth with your family, people you love, to check out what God’s word has to say on these issues and not what somebody else had to say and the answers are found only in the word of God which is the Bible." - John McCartney, Pastor, First Baptist Church of Tooele, Utah.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "What I’ve discovered is when you counter Mormon theology with biblical fact and you back them up into a corner they most always go back to, ‘Well I’ve experienced a testimony.’" - Roger Oakland, President, Understand the Times</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The reader is invited to consider whether ''any'' reply to any of the so-called "facts" presented by the ''Search for the Truth'' DVD have been answered with "Well, we at FAIR have a testimony."

Members of FAIR do have testimonies, but there are legitimate Biblical and historical answers to all the questions posed by the critics. No member can answer every objection from a hostile critic, especially one who is so convinced that ''their'' interpretation of the Bible is the only way in which a honest, Christian, God-fearing person could understand the text. But, an individual's inability to answer to the satisfaction of self-appointed "Christian" judges says nothing about the merits of any position.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE
</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "...when you ask them, ‘Well what do you mean by “the testimony?” Is that the burning in the bosom?’ They say, ‘Yes, of course, and you too could have the experience of the burning in the bosom all you need to do is ask God if what Joseph Smith said is true.’ Now isn’t this amazing? To stake your eternal life based on some kind of a feeling, a subjective feeling? Where would you find that in the scriptures? Absolutely nowhere." - Roger Oakland, President, Understand the Times</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "My faith that I will be spending eternity in heaven with Jesus Christ is dependent upon understanding who He is and what He’s done. The shed blood of Jesus Christ, His life was sacrificed upon the cross, His blood was shed, He died, He is resurrected—He lives today. And if I would believe in Him and who He is and what He’s done and acknowledge who I am and what I’ve done and ask for forgiveness then I can spend eternity with him. It has nothing to do with a burning in the bosom." - Roger Oakland, President, Understand the Times </h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "All you have to do is believe in Christ and be saved and confess it and then that’s it." - Tim Howard (Former Mormon) </h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "It don’t have to be I’ve got to join this Church and then on top of that I’ve got to pay my tithing to get a Temple recommend and then I’ve got to have a Temple recommend to get into the Temple and then I’ve got to go to the Temple so that I can live with God so that I can become a God so that I can go have a planet to not be with God. It just don’t make sense." - Tim Howard (Former Mormon)</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Why would you trust Joseph Smith over the Bible?" - Sandra Tanner, President, Utah Lighthouse Ministry</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "What is the criteria for testing a prophet? Let’s look at that and I would hope the person would then be able to see Joseph Smith doesn’t deserve the honor and recognition that they’ve always given to him. He doesn’t measure up against what God said in the Bible." - Sandra Tanner, President, Utah Lighthouse Ministry</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "You know, I thought to myself I’m teaching these kids, let alone my own kids, this song about a prophet that I don’t even believe is true." - Karen Howard (Former Mormon)</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

This is a bizarre objection. Ms. Howard was teaching her children something she didn't believe? No parent ought to teach children things that they don't believe are true. However, that Ms. Howard did so is no fault of the Church's. The Church constantly emphasizes the necessity of knowing for oneself if one is following the path approved by God.

Ms. Howard's belief or disbelief says nothing about the truth or falsehood of any belief.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "My heart, to see that people could know the truth because Jesus said if you know the truth the truth will set you free." - Scott Gallantin, Pastor, Calvary Chapel</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

If the truth is all that is necessary to set us free (and Latter-day Saints believe that it is), why has Pastor Gallantin chosen to lend his name to a DVD that distorts and lies about the faith of the Latter-day Saints? Why does he not present ''all'' the facts, or refuse to associate with those who will not?

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "And I’m sure that if you do that if you truly seek Him out in the Bible I’m sure that Jesus would begin to speak to you and you would know the truth." - Scott Gallantin, Pastor, Calvary Chapel</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

How does Pastor Gallantin know that Jesus does not speak to the Latter-day Saints as they read the Bible? (According to a Christian research group, a Latter-day Saint is statistically more likely to read the Bible during the week than Catholics or Protestants?) {{link|url=http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=103}}

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "And so my heart is that any Mormon who would be hearing this would be going back to the scriptures, challenging the words of Joseph Smith, comparing them to the words of Jesus—the one who died for you, the one who loves you. The one who is praying for you right now, interceding, he ever lives to make intercession for you right now."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Once again, the critics are claiming that the Mormons have some "different" Jesus that they need to abandon, and turn to "Jesus--the one who died for you, the one who loves you. The one who is praying for you right now, interceding, he ever lives to make intercession for you..."

One grows weary of repeating it, but these are all doctrines believed and taught by the Latter-day Saints:
* Christ died for us ({{s||Jacob|1|8}}, {{s||Mosiah|3|7}}, {{s||Helaman|14|20}})
* Christ loves us ({{s|3|Nephi|17|5-22}}, {{s||Moroni|7|48}})
* Christ prays for us to the Father ({{s|3|Nephi|17|15-22}}, {{s|3|Nephi|18|23-25}}).
* Christ makes intercession for us ({{s|2|Nephi|2|9-10}}, {{s||Mosiah|14|12}}, {{s||Mosiah|15|5}}, {{s||DC|45|3-5}}.)

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Now I just ask you a simple question, do you want to trust Joseph Smith who is a fraud, a womanizer, many wives, a false prophet, the Book of Mormon? There’s nothing to support it, all the evidence says to the contrary. Or would you trust Jesus Christ who is the Savior, who is God, who became a man?...Now where do you want to rest your hope for eternity? In Joseph Smith or in Jesus Christ and His word?" - Dave Hunt, Author and Founder, Berean Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "And the Bible is supported by hundreds, even thousands of prophecies, proofs, evidence, history, archaeology—we can prove it." - Dave Hunt, Author and Founder, Berean Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "I was born and raised a Mormon for 37 years...Everything took a back seat to the Church including, as I look back, my family." - Randy Gavin, Former Salt Lake Stake Mission President</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

One has to chuckle at the "position" given Mr. Gavin. Non-members may find such a title impressive, but the Latter-day Saints would not. A "stake mission president" is a part-time position held by assignment, for a period of time, in every LDS "stake." A "stake" is an ecclesiastical unit of roughly ten congregations. Thus, in Salt Lake City there are dozens of stakes, and hundreds of current and former "stake mission presidents."

If Mr. Gavin put his family in the "back seat" to Church duties, the Church is not to blame for that. In fact, Mr. Gavin violated the clear teachings of the Church by putting family before Church duties. That he did so indicates that he did not understand even the fundamentals of LDS doctrine, regardless of being "raised a Mormon for 37 years." His poor choices in this most vital of matters make him a poor witness for how "Mormons" understand things.

Mr. Gavin and interested readers may wish to review the Church's teachings on family.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Church over family|Church over family?]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "I remember sitting on the edge of my bed and weeping as the recognition that I had been lied to crept in upon me." - Randy Gavin, Former Salt Lake Stake Mission President</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

If Mr. Gavin believed he was lied to, then he can doubtless understand how offensive it is for the Latter-day Saints when their doctrine and their history is repeatedly lied about over the course of a ninety minute DVD.

What is harder to understand is why Mr. Gavin would participate in a venture which lies about others. One can only hope that he still does not understand LDS doctrine and practice, as he evidently did not prior to leaving the Church.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "When Jesus says if the Son set you free you should be free indeed He really means it. The thing that broke forth on me was that the Bible really is the real thing there’s no fantasy to it. It reveals reality to us." - Randy Gavin, Former Salt Lake Stake Mission President</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Witnessing to Mormons

2007-03-21T13:04:28Z

MikeAsh:

{{DVDHeadingBox|Witnessing to Mormons}}

{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Joseph Smith was a liar, again and again he lied. Joseph Smith said that there were cities all over America that held many, many people in South and Central America. Not one city has ever been found. Not one crumb, not one remain, and yet in the Bible multitudes of cities have been found just as the Bible said." - Floyd McElveen</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

McElveen appears to know very little amount pre-Columbian history. There ''were'' cities all over South and Central America filled with people. In fact, Joseph Smith's conception of what pre-Columbian America was like was unusual for his era. When he discovered an 1842 book describing Central American ruins, he was surprised and pleased to have someone from the secular world confirm the Book of Mormon's portrait of pre-Columbian life. When the Book of Mormon was published, Amerindians were perceived as being generally without "high culture," writing, cities, and other trappings of "advanced civilization."

McElveen's complaint about the status of Book of Mormon vs. Bible archaeology is simply a rehash of DVD material presented earlier. (See [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Archaeology|here]] for responses.)

LDS Mesoamerican scholar John Clark has presented numerous "direct hits" for the Book of Mormon that were unknown when the Book of Mormon was published.

However, McElveen and associates have either misrepresented or "lied" "again and again" over the course of the video.

'''To read more:'''
*{{JBMS-14-2-8}}
*[[Archaeology and the Bible|Book of Mormon and Biblical archaeology]]
*{{Ensign|author=Daniel C. Peterson|article=Mounting Evidence for the Book of Mormon|vol=30|num=1|date=January 2000|start=18|end=24}}{{link|url=http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=741f6a4430c0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1}}

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Joseph Smith was a complete deceiver. He deceived people into believing that he had a revelation from God when he did not. The Book of Abraham has been proven false and Joseph Smith along with it. The DNA evidence showed he was false about what he said that the Lamanites and then the Indians descended from Israel—from the Jews. It was proven that they did not. He lied about that. He was a liar from the very beginning." - Floyd McElveen
</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
The DVD participants apparently believe that they can merely make claims, and have them be accepted. All of these issues have already been addressed, and remain false.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Prophecy_and_Revelation|Prophecy and revelation]]
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:First Vision|First Vision]]
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Book of Abraham|Book of Abraham]]
* [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:DNA|DNA]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Do you want to know truth about who God is and how to know Him and how to be with Him forever? Then listen to this book, which is free of error because God can’t lie. He makes no mistakes." - Dr. John Whitcomb</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Latter-day Saints accept the Bible as the Word of God. We, like other Christians, believe that studying the Bible will draw us closer to the divine. We also agree that God doesn't lie or make mistakes. Can a book, however, that was written by imperfect mortals, in imperfect languages, copied by imperfect copiest, translated by imperfect translators, and intepreted by imperfect readers be "free of error"? The Bible itself does not claim to be error-free, and studies of the Bible and the inherent ambiguity which exists in all languages demonstrates that no writing is truly free of error.

* Links http://fairlds.org/apol/ai103.html
|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "It’s a question of what the truth is. It’s a question of what the evidence is. It’s a question of, did a man come along 1800 years into the history of Christianity and totally revise what Christianity says and what the Bible says? And that’s what we believe Joseph Smith did." - Dr. Phil Roberts, President, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

It matters very little what Dr. Roberts, the Baptist Theological Seminary, or the other critics "think" Joseph Smith did. What matters is what Joseph claimed to do, and what the Latter-day Saints believe he did.

Joseph did not claim to "revise" Christianity, or alter what the Bible says. He claimed to ''restore'' Christianity to a purer state. LDS doctrine does not alter Biblical doctrines, but it does offer a different ''interpretation'' of the Biblical data. Dr. Roberts and his fellows are so utterly convinced that their view is the correct one that they seem unable to even conceive that someone might legitimately interpret the Bible differently.

Yet, Dr. Roberts' Baptist denomination is hardly younger than Joseph Smith's denomination, with historical roots in the 17th century at the earliest. Are we to instead believe that someone could reform Christianity without prophetic authority? Either Christianity persisted, uncontaminated, from the days of the apostles, or it was corrupted. If it became corrupted, by what authority did Dr. Roberts' denomination correct it? And, how can a neutral observer know if that authority is legitimate? The Bible certainly doesn't confer a divine mantle on the Baptists (or anyone else). Since we've been told that a witness of the Holy Spirit is off-limits, the critics have painted themselves into a corner.

{{nw}}

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "I would greatly encourage any Mormon or any person who is thinking about Mormonism to examine objectively the life of Joseph Smith, the reliability and the teachings of the Book of Mormon over against the Jesus of the New Testament and the reliability of the Bible and its truthfulness." - Dr. Phil Roberts, President, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "There is a tremendous amount of respect that I have for them and their dedication and how hard they are seeking and the burden that they are willing to carry in their impossible attempt to live up to their impossible gospel demands." - Joel Kramer, Director, Living Hope Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The reader is invited to consider just how much "respect" the Latter-day Saints and their faith have experienced from Mr. Kramer and his ministry.

Mr. Kramer again presumes to speak for the Latter-day Saints—they do not consider the demands which a merciful Christ puts upon them to be "impossible," or even onerous. As Jesus taught, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light" ({{s||Matthew|11|30}}).

Distorted ideas about the Latter-day Saints' views on salvation have already been addressed [[Search_for_the_Truth_DVD:Eternal_Life|here]].

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Virtually every verse I quote in scripture is [given to my congregation] because you need to go home and check me out. You need to see what the Bible has to say not what John says, not what Joseph says, not what anybody says but God. What does God say about these issues? You need to check these things out. It is your soul—your eternal soul—that is on the line and there is no reset button at the judgment. There is no finger pointing: ‘But he misled me.’ You have an obligation for the sake of your soul as well as to be able to share the truth with your family, people you love, to check out what God’s word has to say on these issues and not what somebody else had to say and the answers are found only in the word of God which is the Bible." - John McCartney, Pastor, First Baptist Church of Tooele, Utah.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "What I’ve discovered is when you counter Mormon theology with biblical fact and you back them up into a corner they most always go back to, ‘Well I’ve experienced a testimony.’" - Roger Oakland, President, Understand the Times</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The reader is invited to consider whether ''any'' reply to any of the so-called "facts" presented by the ''Search for the Truth'' DVD have been answered with "Well, we at FAIR have a testimony."

Members of FAIR do have testimonies, but there are legitimate Biblical and historical answers to all the questions posed by the critics. No member can answer every objection from a hostile critic, especially one who is so convinced that ''their'' interpretation of the Bible is the only way in which a honest, Christian, God-fearing person could understand the text. But, an individual's inability to answer to the satisfaction of self-appointed "Christian" judges says nothing about the merits of any position.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE
</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "...when you ask them, ‘Well what do you mean by “the testimony?” Is that the burning in the bosom?’ They say, ‘Yes, of course, and you too could have the experience of the burning in the bosom all you need to do is ask God if what Joseph Smith said is true.’ Now isn’t this amazing? To stake your eternal life based on some kind of a feeling, a subjective feeling? Where would you find that in the scriptures? Absolutely nowhere." - Roger Oakland, President, Understand the Times</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "My faith that I will be spending eternity in heaven with Jesus Christ is dependent upon understanding who He is and what He’s done. The shed blood of Jesus Christ, His life was sacrificed upon the cross, His blood was shed, He died, He is resurrected—He lives today. And if I would believe in Him and who He is and what He’s done and acknowledge who I am and what I’ve done and ask for forgiveness then I can spend eternity with him. It has nothing to do with a burning in the bosom." - Roger Oakland, President, Understand the Times </h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "All you have to do is believe in Christ and be saved and confess it and then that’s it." - Tim Howard (Former Mormon) </h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "It don’t have to be I’ve got to join this Church and then on top of that I’ve got to pay my tithing to get a Temple recommend and then I’ve got to have a Temple recommend to get into the Temple and then I’ve got to go to the Temple so that I can live with God so that I can become a God so that I can go have a planet to not be with God. It just don’t make sense." - Tim Howard (Former Mormon)</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Why would you trust Joseph Smith over the Bible?" - Sandra Tanner, President, Utah Lighthouse Ministry</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "What is the criteria for testing a prophet? Let’s look at that and I would hope the person would then be able to see Joseph Smith doesn’t deserve the honor and recognition that they’ve always given to him. He doesn’t measure up against what God said in the Bible." - Sandra Tanner, President, Utah Lighthouse Ministry</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "You know, I thought to myself I’m teaching these kids, let alone my own kids, this song about a prophet that I don’t even believe is true." - Karen Howard (Former Mormon)</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

This is a bizarre objection. Ms. Howard was teaching her children something she didn't believe? No parent ought to teach children things that they don't believe are true. However, that Ms. Howard did so is no fault of the Church's. The Church constantly emphasizes the necessity of knowing for oneself if one is following the path approved by God.

Ms. Howard's belief or disbelief says nothing about the truth or falsehood of any belief.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "My heart, to see that people could know the truth because Jesus said if you know the truth the truth will set you free." - Scott Gallantin, Pastor, Calvary Chapel</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

If the truth is all that is necessary to set us free (and Latter-day Saints believe that it is), why has Pastor Gallantin chosen to lend his name to a DVD that distorts and lies about the faith of the Latter-day Saints? Why does he not present ''all'' the facts, or refuse to associate with those who will not?

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "And I’m sure that if you do that if you truly seek Him out in the Bible I’m sure that Jesus would begin to speak to you and you would know the truth." - Scott Gallantin, Pastor, Calvary Chapel</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

How does Pastor Gallantin know that Jesus does not speak to the Latter-day Saints as they read the Bible? (According to a Christian research group, a Latter-day Saint is statistically more likely to read the Bible during the week than Catholics or Protestants?) {{link|url=http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=103}}

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "And so my heart is that any Mormon who would be hearing this would be going back to the scriptures, challenging the words of Joseph Smith, comparing them to the words of Jesus—the one who died for you, the one who loves you. The one who is praying for you right now, interceding, he ever lives to make intercession for you right now."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Once again, the critics are claiming that the Mormons have some "different" Jesus that they need to abandon, and turn to "Jesus--the one who died for you, the one who loves you. The one who is praying for you right now, interceding, he ever lives to make intercession for you..."

One grows weary of repeating it, but these are all doctrines believed and taught by the Latter-day Saints:
* Christ died for us ({{s||Jacob|1|8}}, {{s||Mosiah|3|7}}, {{s||Helaman|14|20}})
* Christ loves us ({{s|3|Nephi|17|5-22}}, {{s||Moroni|7|48}})
* Christ prays for us to the Father ({{s|3|Nephi|17|15-22}}, {{s|3|Nephi|18|23-25}}).
* Christ makes intercession for us ({{s|2|Nephi|2|9-10}}, {{s||Mosiah|14|12}}, {{s||Mosiah|15|5}}, {{s||DC|45|3-5}}.)

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "Now I just ask you a simple question, do you want to trust Joseph Smith who is a fraud, a womanizer, many wives, a false prophet, the Book of Mormon? There’s nothing to support it, all the evidence says to the contrary. Or would you trust Jesus Christ who is the Savior, who is God, who became a man?...Now where do you want to rest your hope for eternity? In Joseph Smith or in Jesus Christ and His word?" - Dave Hunt, Author and Founder, Berean Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "And the Bible is supported by hundreds, even thousands of prophecies, proofs, evidence, history, archaeology—we can prove it." - Dave Hunt, Author and Founder, Berean Ministries</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "I was born and raised a Mormon for 37 years...Everything took a back seat to the Church including, as I look back, my family." - Randy Gavin, Former Salt Lake Stake Mission President</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

One has to chuckle at the "position" given Mr. Gavin. Non-members may find such a title impressive, but the Latter-day Saints would not. A "stake mission president" is a part-time position held by assignment, for a period of time, in every LDS "stake." A "stake" is an ecclesiastical unit of roughly ten congregations. Thus, in Salt Lake City there are dozens of stakes, and hundreds of current and former "stake mission presidents."

If Mr. Gavin put his family in the "back seat" to Church duties, the Church is not to blame for that. In fact, Mr. Gavin violated the clear teachings of the Church by putting family before Church duties. That he did so indicates that he did not understand even the fundamentals of LDS doctrine, regardless of being "raised a Mormon for 37 years." His poor choices in this most vital of matters make him a poor witness for how "Mormons" understand things.

Mr. Gavin and interested readers may wish to review the Church's teachings on family.

'''To read more:'''
* [[Church over family|Church over family?]]

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "I remember sitting on the edge of my bed and weeping as the recognition that I had been lied to crept in upon me." - Randy Gavin, Former Salt Lake Stake Mission President</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

If Mr. Gavin believed he was lied to, then he can doubtless understand how offensive it is for the Latter-day Saints when their doctrine and their history is repeatedly lied about over the course of a ninety minute DVD.

What is harder to understand is why Mr. Gavin would participate in a venture which lies about others. One can only hope that he still does not understand LDS doctrine and practice, as he evidently did not prior to leaving the Church.

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim: "When Jesus says if the Son set you free you should be free indeed He really means it. The thing that broke forth on me was that the Bible really is the real thing there’s no fantasy to it. It reveals reality to us." - Randy Gavin, Former Salt Lake Stake Mission President</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

ANSWER

'''To read more:'''
* LINKS HERE

|-

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{{DoYouHaveQuestions}}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Credits

2007-03-21T12:33:24Z

MikeAsh:

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Book of Abraham

2007-03-20T13:00:58Z

MikeAsh:

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Archaeology

2007-03-18T16:06:09Z

MikeAsh:

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<div style="font-size:300%;border:none;margin: 0;padding:.1em;color:#000">Archaeology</div>
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{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Is There Archaeology Support for the Book of Mormon?</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Like numerous critics before them, the makers of this video claim that
archaeological support for the Book of Mormon is non-existent compared
to the supposed voluminous archaeological support for the Bible. There
are major differences, however, between Old and New World archaeology
as well as the assumptions which many people bring to their approach of
Book of Mormon archaeology.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 1: One of the ways to "prove the validity of the word of God" is from "the physical facts found in archaeology..."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Archaeology can not "prove" that a document is the "word of God." Does archaeology confrim that Jesus is the Christ, that he rose from the dead, or that he atoned for our sins? Archaeology supports the existence of Homer's Troy, does that make the Illiad the word of God? There is no archaeological evidence for Moses, Abraham, Joseph
of Egypt, Noah, or virtually any ancient biblical prophet, but this is
never mentioned in the video. Many biblical archaeologists are not Christian. Why not, if the Bible has been proven to be the word of God by archaeological data?

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 2: The Bible has over "25,000 evidences" for its authenticity.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Old World archaeology has the advantage of
continuity of ''toponyms'' (place names). In many instances (and in direct contrast
to what we find in Mesoamerica), Bible cities are still known by the
same names as they were known anciently. Even with such an advantage,
however, only about 7-8% of Bible locations are known with any degree
of certainty, and another 7-8% are suspected with some degree of
accuracy because they are in proximity to known Bible sites. If there had not been a continuity of toponyms, many more biblical sites would not be known.

The fact is, that the location of numerous biblical sites are unknown. The location of Mt. Sinai, for example, has over twenty possible candidates. Some scholars reject the claim that the city of Jericho existed at the time of Joshua. The exact route taken by the Israelites on their Exodus is unknown, and some scholars dispute the biblical claim that there ever was an Israelite conquest of Canaan. Many other examples could be given.

Non LDS biblical archaeologist, William Dever, claims that archaeology should never be supposed to prove the Bible in any sense, and that “neither Biblical scholars nor archaeologists have been able to document as historical any of the events, much less the personalities, of the patriarchal or Mosaic era” (William G. Dever, Recent Archaeological Discoveries and Biblical Research [Seattle and London: University of Washington Press, 1990], 5, 26).

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 3: "Not one artifact from the Book of Mormon has ever been found. Not one city, not one empire...."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Such a charge is based on naive and faulty assumptions. Ancient Mesoamerica was virtually unknown to the people of Joseph
Smith’s day and locale. When the Book of Mormon was translated,
there was almost no archaeological support for the record. Today,
however, most things mentioned in the Book of Mormon ''have been''
confirmed to have existed in—what most LDS scholars believe—are
Book of Mormon lands. This would include fortifications, armor,
thrones, cement, towers, trade, and more. None of these evidences,
however, translate into “proof.” How would we recognize uniquely
Nephite/Lamanite artifacts? How would we recognize a Nephite potsherd
from a non-Nephite potsherd? Writings or markings associated with an artifact would be necessary to tell us if such potsherds were Nephite. Writings and markings are generally either ''iconographic''-- using pictures or symbols, such as a cross-- or ''epigraphic''-- which is textual, such as the word, "cross." Surviving epigraphic evidence from ancient America, however, is very rare.

If we knew the place names by which all ancient
American cities were known during Book of Mormon times, critics might
have a stronger case. The fact is, however, that extremely few ancient
inscriptions give us these place names. The few which are known are
generally phonetic in nature (which means that don’t know for certain
how these city names were pronounced). Because we don’t know the
original names of most ancient American cities, we use those
designations assigned by the Spanish—such as La Venta, San Lorenz,
etc. If we don’t know the ancient names, how can critics claim
that—according to archaeologists—there were no Book of Mormon
cities such as Lib, or Bountiful?

Critics almost never mention the discovery of “NHM”—and ancient
site in Arabia—that corresponds precisely with the Nahom of the Book
of Mormon (1 Nephi 16:34) in timeframe, location, and in relation to an
eastward turn in the trail which the Lehites followed in their exodus
from the Old World. While NHM does not constitute “proof” for the
Book of Mormon, it does provide strong archaeological evidence for the
book’s narrative.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 4: Not one Book of Mormon weapon, of any kind, has ever been found.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

From iconographic evidence we know that ancient Americans used weapons that function in the same way as described in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon, for example, mentions swords. Most readers have assumed that this referred to metal (European-like) swords. Such an assumption, however, is unwarranted. Mesoamericans used wooden clubs, laced with volcanic obsidian (extremely sharp), or bits of sharp rock. When the Spanish encountered these clubs, they dubbed them "swords" and one Spaniard claimed that these swords were so sharp that he saw a Native American cut the head of a horse with one blow.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 5: Not one coin "which were noted as being common in Joseph’s writings" have ever been found in ancient America.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

While twentieth-century editors (possibly James Talmage) mistakenly added the term “coins” to the chapter heading of Alma 11, the Book of Mormon text ''never'' mentions coins (let alone mentions them as "being common"). Interestingly enough, however, the Book of Mormon does mention a monetary system that has remarkable Old World parallels.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 6: "According to the Book of Mormon" the "hill Cumorah" was "in Palmyra, N.Y....." and the "Church won’t even commit itself to a map of where the Book of Mormon was supposed to have happened."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The Book of Mormon doesn't tell us that Cumorah was in New York. And, contrary to what many people have believed, the Book of Mormon doesn't tell us where Moroni buried the plates. We do know, however, that all the plates ''expect'' the Book of Mormon plates were buried in Cumorah. The term "Cumorah" was given to the hill in N.Y. by early Latter-day Saints.

Why is there no official map? The location of Book of Mormon events hasn't been revealed. Why is there no offical map designating the exact location of Jesus' birth (which is debated among biblical scholars)? Why is there no official map designating the precise location of Mt. Sinai? It doesn't seem necessary for God to reveal all geographical information in order for a text to qualify is the Word of God.

|-
| style="color:#000"|

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Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Archaeology

2007-03-18T16:03:56Z

MikeAsh:

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<div style="font-size:300%;border:none;margin: 0;padding:.1em;color:#000">Archaeology</div>
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{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
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{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Is There Archaeology Support for the Book of Mormon?</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Like numerous critics before them, the makers of this video claim that
archaeological support for the Book of Mormon is non-existent compared
to the supposed voluminous archaeological support for the Bible. There
are major differences, however, between Old and New World archaeology
as well as the assumptions which many people bring to their approach of
Book of Mormon archaeology.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 1: One of the ways to "prove the validity of the word of God" is from "the physical facts found in archaeology..."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Archaeology can not "prove" that a document is the "word of God." Does archaeology confrim that Jesus is the Christ, that he rose from the dead, or that he atoned for our sins? Archaeology supports the existence of Homer's Troy, does that make the Illiad the word of God? There is no archaeological evidence for Moses, Abraham, Joseph
of Egypt, Noah, or virtually any ancient biblical prophet, but this is
never mentioned in the video. Many biblical archaeologists are not Christian. Why not, if the Bible has been proven to be the word of God by archaeological data?

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 2: The Bible has over "25,000 evidences" for its authenticity.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Old World archaeology has the advantage of
continuity of ''toponyms'' (place names). In many instances (and in direct contrast
to what we find in Mesoamerica), Bible cities are still known by the
same names as they were known anciently. Even with such an advantage,
however, only about 7-8% of Bible locations are known with any degree
of certainty, and another 7-8% are suspected with some degree of
accuracy because they are in proximity to known Bible sites. If there had not been a continuity of toponyms, many more biblical sites would not be known.

The fact is, that the location of numerous biblical sites are unknown. The location of Mt. Sinai, for example, has over twenty possible candidates. Some scholars reject the claim that the city of Jericho existed at the time of Joshua. The exact route taken by the Israelites on their Exodus is unknown, and some scholars dispute the biblical claim that there ever was an Israelite conquest of Canaan. Many other examples could be given.

Non LDS biblical archaeologist, William Dever, claims that archaeology should never be supposed to prove the Bible in any sense, and that “neither Biblical scholars nor archaeologists have been able to document as historical any of the events, much less the personalities, of the patriarchal or Mosaic era” (William G. Dever, Recent Archaeological Discoveries and Biblical Research [Seattle and London: University of Washington Press, 1990], 5, 26).

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 3: "Not one artifact from the Book of Mormon has ever been found. Not one city, not one empire...."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Such a charge is based on naive and faulty assumptions. Ancient Mesoamerica was virtually unknown to the people of Joseph
Smith’s day and locale. When the Book of Mormon was translated,
there was almost no archaeological support for the record. Today,
however, most things mentioned in the Book of Mormon ''have been''
confirmed to have existed in—what most LDS scholars believe—are
Book of Mormon lands. This would include fortifications, armor,
thrones, cement, towers, trade, and more. None of these evidences,
however, translate into “proof.” How would we recognize uniquely
Nephite/Lamanite artifacts? How would we recognize a Nephite potsherd
from a non-Nephite potsherd? Writings or markings associated with an artifact would be necessary to tell us if such potsherds were Nephite. Writings and markings are generally either ''iconographic''-- using pictures or symbols, such as a cross-- or ''epigraphic''-- which is textual, such as the word, "cross." Surviving epigraphic evidence from ancient America, however, is very rare.

If we knew the place names by which all ancient
American cities were known during Book of Mormon times, critics might
have a stronger case. The fact is, however, that extremely few ancient
inscriptions give us these place names. The few which are known are
generally phonetic in nature (which means that don’t know for certain
how these city names were pronounced). Because we don’t know the
original names of most ancient American cities, we use those
designations assigned by the Spanish—such as La Venta, San Lorenz,
etc. If we don’t know the ancient names, how can critics claim
that—according to archaeologists—there were no Book of Mormon
cities such as Lib, or Bountiful?

Critics almost never mention the discovery of “NHM”—and ancient
site in Arabia—that corresponds precisely with the Nahom of the Book
of Mormon (1 Nephi 16:34) in timeframe, location, and in relation to an
eastward turn in the trail which the Lehites followed in their exodus
from the Old World. While NHM does not constitute “proof” for the
Book of Mormon, it does provide strong archaeological evidence for the
book’s narrative.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 4: Not one Book of Mormon weapon, of any kind, has ever been found.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

From iconographic evidence we know that ancient Americans used weapons that function in the same way as described in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon, for example, mentions swords. Most readers have assumed that this referred to metal (European-like) swords. Such an assumption, however, is unwarranted. Mesoamericans used wooden clubs, laced with volcanic obsidian (extremely sharp), or bits of sharp rock. When the Spanish encountered these clubs, they dubbed them "swords" and one Spaniard claimed that these swords were so sharp that he saw a Native American cut the head of a horse with one blow.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 5: Not one coin "which were noted as being common in Joseph’s writings" have ever been found in ancient America.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

While twentieth-century editors (possibly James Talmage) mistakenly added the term “coins” to the chapter heading of Alma 11, the Book of Mormon text ''never'' mentions coins (let alone mentions them as "being common"). Interestingly enough, however, the Book of Mormon does mention a monetary system that has remarkable Old World parallels.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 6: "According to the Book of Mormon" the "hill Cumorah" was "in Palmyra, N.Y....." and the "Church won’t even commit itself to a map of where the Book of Mormon was supposed to have happened."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The Book of Mormon doesn't tell us that Cumorah was in New York. And, contrary to what many people have believed, the Book of Mormon doesn't tell us where Moroni buried the plates. We do know, however, that all the plates ''expect'' the Book of Mormon plates were buried in Cumorah. The term "Cumorah" was given to the hill in N.Y. by early Latter-day Saints.

Why is there no official map? This information hasn't been revealed? Why is there no offical map designating the exact location of Jesus birth (which is debated among biblical scholars)? Why is there no official map designating the precise location of Mt. Sinai?

|-
| style="color:#000"|

|-
|}



| class="MainPageBG" style="width:40%;border:1px solid #cef2e0;background-color:#f5fffa;vertical-align:top;color:#000"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5fffa"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#003366;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #258;text-align:left;color:#fff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jump to...</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"| <small>{{DVD25March2007-ToC}}</small>
|-
|}
|}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Archaeology

2007-03-18T16:01:47Z

MikeAsh:

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

{| style="width:100%;margin-top:+.7em;background-color:#ffffc0;border:1px solid #ccc"
| style="width:40%;color:#000" |
{|style="width:100%;border:solid 0px;background:none"
|-
| style="text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;color:#000"|
<div style="font-size:300%;border:none;margin: 0;padding:.1em;color:#000">Archaeology</div>
|}

| style="width:75%;font-size:85%;color:#000"|



|}




{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Is There Archaeology Support for the Book of Mormon?</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Like numerous critics before them, the makers of this video claim that
archaeological support for the Book of Mormon is non-existent compared
to the supposed voluminous archaeological support for the Bible. There
are major differences, however, between Old and New World archaeology
as well as the assumptions which many people bring to their approach of
Book of Mormon archaeology.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 1: One of the ways to "prove the validity of the word of God" is from "the physical facts found in archaeology..."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Archaeology can not "prove" that a document is the "word of God." Does archaeology confrim that Jesus is the Christ, that he rose from the dead, or that he atoned for our sins? Archaeology supports the existence of Homer's Troy, does that make the Illiad the word of God? There is no archaeological evidence for Moses, Abraham, Joseph
of Egypt, Noah, or virtually any ancient biblical prophet, but this is
never mentioned in the video. Many biblical archaeologists are not Christian. Why not, if the Bible has been proven to be the word of God by archaeological data?

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 2: The Bible has over "25,000 evidences" for its authenticity.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Old World archaeology has the advantage of
continuity of ''toponyms'' (place names). In many instances (and in direct contrast
to what we find in Mesoamerica), Bible cities are still known by the
same names as they were known anciently. Even with such an advantage,
however, only about 7-8% of Bible locations are known with any degree
of certainty, and another 7-8% are suspected with some degree of
accuracy because they are in proximity to known Bible sites. If there had not been a continuity of toponyms, many more biblical sites would not be known.

The fact is, that the location of numerous biblical sites are unknown. The location of Mt. Sinai, for example, has over twenty possible candidates. Some scholars reject the claim that the city of Jericho existed at the time of Joshua. The exact route taken by the Israelites on their Exodus is unknown, and some scholars dispute the biblical claim that there ever was an Israelite conquest of Canaan. Many other examples could be given.

Non LDS biblical archaeologist, William Dever, claims that archaeology should never be supposed to prove the Bible in any sense, and that “neither Biblical scholars nor archaeologists have been able to document as historical any of the events, much less the personalities, of the patriarchal or Mosaic era” (William G. Dever, Recent Archaeological Discoveries and Biblical Research [Seattle and London: University of Washington Press, 1990], 5, 26).

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 3: "Not one artifact from the Book of Mormon has ever been found. Not one city, not one empire...."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Such a charge is based on naive and faulty assumptions. Ancient Mesoamerica was virtually unknown to the people of Joseph
Smith’s day and locale. When the Book of Mormon was translated,
there was almost no archaeological support for the record. Today,
however, most things mentioned in the Book of Mormon ''have been''
confirmed to have existed in—what most LDS scholars believe—are
Book of Mormon lands. This would include fortifications, armor,
thrones, cement, towers, trade, and more. None of these evidences,
however, translate into “proof.” How would we recognize uniquely
Nephite/Lamanite artifacts? How would we recognize a Nephite potsherd
from a non-Nephite potsherd? Writings or markings associated with an artifact would be necessary to tell us if such potsherds were Nephite. Writings and markings are generally either ''iconographic''-- using pictures or symbols, such as a cross-- or ''epigraphic''-- which is textual, such as the word, "cross." Surviving epigraphic evidence from ancient America, however, is very rare.

If we knew the place names by which all ancient
American cities were known during Book of Mormon times, critics might
have a stronger case. The fact is, however, that extremely few ancient
inscriptions give us these place names. The few which are known are
generally phonetic in nature (which means that don’t know for certain
how these city names were pronounced). Because we don’t know the
original names of most ancient American cities, we use those
designations assigned by the Spanish—such as La Venta, San Lorenz,
etc. If we don’t know the ancient names, how can critics claim
that—according to archaeologists—there were no Book of Mormon
cities such as Lib, or Bountiful?

Critics almost never mention the discovery of “NHM”—and ancient
site in Arabia—that corresponds precisely with the Nahom of the Book
of Mormon (1 Nephi 16:34) in timeframe, location, and in relation to an
eastward turn in the trail which the Lehites followed in their exodus
from the Old World. While NHM does not constitute “proof” for the
Book of Mormon, it does provide strong archaeological evidence for the
book’s narrative.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 4: Not one Book of Mormon weapon, of any kind, has ever been found.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

From iconographic evidence we know that ancient Americans used weapons that function in the same way as described in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon, for example, mentions swords. Most readers have assumed that this referred to metal (European-like) swords. Such an assumption, however, is unwarranted. Mesoamericans used wooden clubs, laced with volcanic obsidian (extremely sharp), or bits of sharp rock. When the Spanish encountered these clubs, they dubbed them "swords" and one Spaniard claimed that these swords were so sharp that he saw one Native American cut the head of a horse with one blow.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 5: Not one coin "which were noted as being common in Joseph’s writings" have ever been found in ancient America.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

While twentieth-century editors (possibly James Talmage) mistakenly added the term “coins” to the chapter heading of Alma 11, the Book of Mormon text ''never'' mentions coins (let alone mentions them as "being common"). Interestingly enough, however, the Book of Mormon does mention a monetary system that has remarkable Old World parallels.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 6: "According to the Book of Mormon" the "hill Cumorah" was "in Palmyra, N.Y....." and the "Church won’t even commit itself to a map of where the Book of Mormon was supposed to have happened."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The Book of Mormon doesn't tell us that Cumorah was in New York. And, contrary to what many people have believed, the Book of Mormon doesn't tell us where Moroni buried the plates. We do know, however, that all the plates ''expect'' the Book of Mormon plates were buried in Cumorah. The term "Cumorah" was given to the hill in N.Y. by early Latter-day Saints.

Why is there no official map? This information hasn't been revealed? Why is there no offical map designating the exact location of Jesus birth (which is debated among biblical scholars)? Why is there no official map designating the precise location of Mt. Sinai?

|-
| style="color:#000"|

|-
|}



| class="MainPageBG" style="width:40%;border:1px solid #cef2e0;background-color:#f5fffa;vertical-align:top;color:#000"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5fffa"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#003366;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #258;text-align:left;color:#fff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jump to...</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"| <small>{{DVD25March2007-ToC}}</small>
|-
|}
|}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Archaeology

2007-03-18T16:01:17Z

MikeAsh:

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

{| style="width:100%;margin-top:+.7em;background-color:#ffffc0;border:1px solid #ccc"
| style="width:40%;color:#000" |
{|style="width:100%;border:solid 0px;background:none"
|-
| style="text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;color:#000"|
<div style="font-size:300%;border:none;margin: 0;padding:.1em;color:#000">Archaeology</div>
|}

| style="width:75%;font-size:85%;color:#000"|



|}




{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Is There Archaeology Support for the Book of Mormon?</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Like numerous critics before them, the makers of this video claim that
archaeological support for the Book of Mormon is non-existent compared
to the supposed voluminous archaeological support for the Bible. There
are major differences, however, between Old and New World archaeology
as well as the assumptions which many people bring to their approach of
Book of Mormon archaeology.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 1: One of the ways to "prove the validity of the word of God" is from "the physical facts found in archaeology..."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Archaeology can not "prove" that a document is the "word of God." Does archaeology confrim that Jesus is the Christ, that he rose from the dead, or that he atoned for our sins? Archaeology supports the existence of Homer's Troy, does that make the Illiad the word of God? There is no archaeological evidence for Moses, Abraham, Joseph
of Egypt, Noah, or virtually any ancient biblical prophet, but this is
never mentioned in the video. Many biblical archaeologists are not Christian. Why not, if the Bible has been proven to be the word of God by archaeological data?

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 2: The Bible has over "25,000 evidences" for its authenticity.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Old World archaeology has the advantage of
continuity of ''toponyms'' (place names). In many instances (and in direct contrast
to what we find in Mesoamerica), Bible cities are still known by the
same names as they were known anciently. Even with such an advantage,
however, only about 7-8% of Bible locations are known with any degree
of certainty, and another 7-8% are suspected with some degree of
accuracy because they are in proximity to known Bible sites. If there had not been a continuity of toponyms, many more biblical sites would not be known.

The fact is, that the location of numerous biblical sites are unknown. The location of Mt. Sinai, for example, has over twenty possible candidates. Some scholars reject the claim that the city of Jericho existed at the time of Joshua. The exact route taken by the Israelites on their Exodus is unknown, and some scholars dispute the biblical claim that there ever was an Israelite conquest of Canaan. Many other examples could be given.

Non LDS biblical archaeologist, William Dever, claims that archaeology should never be supposed to prove the Bible in any sense, and that “neither Biblical scholars nor archaeologists have been able to document as historical any of the events, much less the personalities, of the patriarchal or Mosaic era” (William G. Dever, Recent Archaeological Discoveries and Biblical Research [Seattle and London: University of Washington Press, 1990], 5, 26).

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 3: "Not one artifact from the Book of Mormon has ever been found. Not one city, not one empire...."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

Such a charge is based on naive and faulty assumptions. Ancient Mesoamerica was virtually unknown to the people of Joseph
Smith’s day and locale. When the Book of Mormon was translated,
there was almost no archaeological support for the record. Today,
however, most things mentioned in the Book of Mormon ''have been''
confirmed to have existed in—what most LDS scholars believe—are
Book of Mormon lands. This would include fortifications, armor,
thrones, cement, towers, trade, and more. None of these evidences,
however, translate into “proof.” How would we recognize uniquely
Nephite/Lamanite artifacts? How would we recognize a Nephite potsherd
from a non-Nephite potsherd? Writings or markings associated with an artifact would be necessary to tell us if such potsherds were Nephite. Writings and markings are generally either ''iconographic''-- using pictures or symbols, such as a cross-- or ''epigraphic''-- which is textual, such as the word, "cross." Surviving epigraphic evidence from ancient America, however, is very rare.

If we knew the place names by which all ancient
American cities were known during Book of Mormon times, critics might
have a stronger case. The fact is, however, that extremely few ancient
inscriptions give us these place names. The few which are known are
generally phonetic in nature (which means that don’t know for certain
how these city names were pronounced). Because we don’t know the
original names of most ancient American cities, we use those
designations assigned by the Spanish—such as La Venta, San Lorenz,
etc. If we don’t know the ancient names, how can critics claim
that—according to archaeologists—there were no Book of Mormon
cities such as Lib, or Bountiful?

Critics almost never mention the discovery of “NHM”—and ancient
site in Arabia—that corresponds precisely with the Nahom of the Book
of Mormon (1 Nephi 16:34) in timeframe, location, and in relation to an
eastward turn in the trail which the Lehites followed in their exodus
from the Old World. While NHM does not constitute “proof” for the
Book of Mormon, it does provide strong archaeological evidence for the
book’s narrative.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 4: Not one Book of Mormon weapon, of any kind, has ever been found.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

From iconographic evidence we know that ancient Americans used weapons that function in the same way as described in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon, for example, mentions swords. Most readers have assumed that this referred to metal (European-like) swords. Such an assumption, however, is unwarranted. Mesoamericans used wooden clubs, laced with volcanic obsidian (extremely sharp), or bits of sharp rock. When the Spanish encountered these clubs, they dubbed them "swords" and one Spaniard claimed that these swords were so sharp that he saw one Native American cut the head of a horse with one blow.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 5: Not one coin "which were noted as being common in Joseph’s writings" have ever been found in ancient America.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

While twentieth-century editors (possibly James Talmage) mistakenly added the term “coins” to the chapter heading of Alma 11, the Book of Mormon text ''never'' mentions coins (let alone mentions them as "being common"). Interestingly enough, however, the Book of Mormon does mention a monetary system that has remarkable Old World parallels.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 6: "According to the Book of Mormon" the "hill Cumorah" was "in Palmyra, N.Y....." and the "Church won’t even commit itself to a map of where the Book of Mormon was supposed to have happened."</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|

The Book of Mormon doesn't tell us that Cumorah was in New York. And, contrary to what many people have believed, the Book of Mormon doesn't tell us where Moroni buried the plates. We do know, however, that all the plates ''expect'' the Book of Mormon plates were buried in Cumorah. The term "Cumorah" was given to the hill in N.Y. by early Latter-day Saints.

Why is there no official map? This information hasn't been revealed? Why is there no offical map designating the exact location of Jesus birth (which is debated among biblical scholars)? Why is there no official map designating the precise location of Mt. Sinai?

|-
| style="color:#000"|

|-
|}



| class="MainPageBG" style="width:40%;border:1px solid #cef2e0;background-color:#f5fffa;vertical-align:top;color:#000"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5fffa"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#003366;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #258;text-align:left;color:#fff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jump to...</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"| <small>{{DVD25March2007-ToC}}</small>
|-
|}
|}

Criticism of Mormonism/Video/Search for the Truth DVD/Archaeology

2007-03-18T15:41:29Z

MikeAsh:

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

{| style="width:100%;margin-top:+.7em;background-color:#ffffc0;border:1px solid #ccc"
| style="width:40%;color:#000" |
{|style="width:100%;border:solid 0px;background:none"
|-
| style="text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;color:#000"|
<div style="font-size:300%;border:none;margin: 0;padding:.1em;color:#000">Archaeology</div>
|}

| style="width:75%;font-size:85%;color:#000"|



|}




{| style="border-spacing:8px;margin:0px -8px"
| class="MainPageBG" style="width:85%;border:1px solid #cedff2;background-color:#f5faff;vertical-align:top"|
{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#f5faff"
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Is There Archaeology Support for the Book of Mormon?</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Like numerous critics before them, the makers of this video claim that
archaeological support for the Book of Mormon is non-existent compared
to the supposed voluminous archaeological support for the Bible. There
are major differences, however, between Old and New World archaeology
as well as the assumptions which many people bring to their approach of
Book of Mormon archaeology.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 1: One of the ways to "prove the validity of the word of God" is from "the physical facts found in archaeology..."</h2>
|-
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Archaeology can not "prove" that a document is the "word of God." Does archaeology confrim that Jesus is the Christ, that he rose from the dead, or that he atoned for our sins? Archaeology supports the existence of Homer's Troy, does that make the Illiad the word of God? There is no archaeological evidence for Moses, Abraham, Joseph
of Egypt, Noah, or virtually any ancient biblical prophet, but this is
never mentioned in the video. Many biblical archaeologists are not Christian. Why not, if the Bible has been proven to be the word of God by archaeological data?

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 2: The Bible has over "25,000 evidences" for its authenticity.</h2>
|-
| style="color:#000"|
Old World archaeology has the advantage of
continuity of ''toponyms'' (place names). In many instances (and in direct contrast
to what we find in Mesoamerica), Bible cities are still known by the
same names as they were known anciently. Even with such an advantage,
however, only about 7-8% of Bible locations are known with any degree
of certainty, and another 7-8% are suspected with some degree of
accuracy because they are in proximity to known Bible sites. If there had not been a continuity of toponyms, many more biblical sites would not be known.

The fact is, that the location of numerous biblical sites are unknown. The location of Mt. Sinai, for example, has over twenty possible candidates. Some scholars reject the claim that the city of Jericho existed at the time of Joshua. The exact route taken by the Israelites on their Exodus is unknown, and some scholars dispute the biblical claim that there ever was an Israelite conquest of Canaan. Many other examples could be given.

Non LDS biblical archaeologist, William Dever, claims that archaeology should never be supposed to prove the Bible in any sense, and that neither “neither Biblical scholars nor archaeologists have been able to document as historical any of the events, much less the personalities, of the patriarchal or Mosaic era” (William G. Dever, Recent Archaeological Discoveries and Biblical Research [Seattle and London: University of Washington Press, 1990], 5, 26).

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 3: "Not one artifact from the Book of Mormon has ever been found. Not one city, not one empire...."</h2>
|-
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Such a charge is based on naive and faulty assumptions. Ancient Mesoamerica was virtually unknown to the people of Joseph
Smith’s day and locale. When the Book of Mormon was translated,
there was almost no archaeological support for the record. Today,
however, most things mentioned in the Book of Mormon ''have been''
confirmed to have existed in—what most LDS scholars believe—are
Book of Mormon lands. This would include fortifications, armor,
thrones, cement, towers, trade, and more. None of these evidences,
however, translate into “proof.” How would we recognize uniquely
Nephite/Lamanite artifacts? How would we recognize a Nephite potsherd
from a non-Nephite potsherd? Writings or markings associated with an artifact would be necessary to tell us if such potsherds were Nephite. Writings and markings are generally either ''iconographic''-- using pictures or symbols, such as a cross-- or ''epigraphic''-- which is textual, such as the word, "cross." Surviving epigraphic evidence from ancient America, however, is very rare.

If we knew the place names by which all ancient
American cities were known during Book of Mormon times, critics might
have a stronger case. The fact is, however, that extremely few ancient
inscriptions give us these place names. The few which are known are
generally phonetic in nature (which means that don’t know for certain
how these city names were pronounced). Because we don’t know the
original names of most ancient American cities, we use those
designations assigned by the Spanish—such as La Venta, San Lorenz,
etc. If we don’t know the ancient names, how can critics claim
that—according to archaeologists—there were no Book of Mormon
cities such as Lib, or Bountiful?

Critics almost never mention the discovery of “NHM”—and ancient
site in Arabia—that corresponds precisely with the Nahom of the Book
of Mormon (1 Nephi 16:34) in timeframe, location, and in relation to an
eastward turn in the trail which the Lehites followed in their exodus
from the Old World. While NHM does not constitute “proof” for the
Book of Mormon, it does provide strong archaeological evidence for the
book’s narrative.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 4: Not one Book of Mormon weapon, of any kind, has ever been found.</h2>

|-
| style="color:#000"|

From iconographic evidence we know that ancient Americans used weapons that function in the same way as described in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon, for example, mentions swords. Most readers have assumed that this referred to metal (European-like) swords. Such an assumption, however, is unwarranted. Mesoamericans used wooden clubs, laced with volcanic obsidian (extremely sharp), or bits of sharp rock. When the Spanish encountered these clubs, they dubbed them "swords" and one Spaniard claimed that these swords were so sharp that he saw one Native American cut the head of a horse with one blow.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 5: Not one coin "which were noted as being common in Joseph’s writings" have ever been found in ancient America.</h2>

|-
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While twentieth-century editors (possibly James Talmage) mistakenly added the term “coins” to the chapter heading of Alma 11, the Book of Mormon text ''never'' mentions coins (let alone mentions them as "being common"). Interestingly enough, however, the Book of Mormon does mention a monetary system that has remarkable Old World parallels.

|-
! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#cedff2;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #a3b0bf;text-align:left;color:#000;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Claim 6: "According to the Book of Mormon" the "hill Cumorah" was "in Palmyra, N.Y....." and the "Church won’t even commit itself to a map of where the Book of Mormon was supposed to have happened."</h2>
|-
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The Book of Mormon doesn't tell us that Cumorah was in New York. And, contrary to what many people have believed, the Book of Mormon doesn't tell us where Moroni buried the plates. We do know, however, that all the plates ''expect'' the Book of Mormon plates were buried in Cumorah. The term "Cumorah" was given to the hill in N.Y. by early Latter-day Saints.

Why is there no official map? This information hasn't been revealed? Why is there no offical map designating the exact location of Jesus birth (which is debated among biblical scholars)? Why is there no official map designating the precise location of Mt. Sinai?

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! <h2 style="margin:0;background-color:#003366;font-size:120%;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid #258;text-align:left;color:#fff;padding:0.2em 0.4em;">Jump to...</h2>
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Changes to the temple endowment

2006-09-05T02:49:50Z

MikeAsh: /* Endnotes */

{{draft}}<br>
{{question}}<br>
{{templedisclaimer}}
==Question==
Latter-day Saints believe that the Temple endowment is an eternal ordinance that Joseph Smith received by revelation from God. Why, then, have changes been made to it several times since it was first revealed?

==Response==
God’s directives and how He deals with His people often vary according to His people’s understanding and needs. God doesn’t tell everyone to build an ark and wait for a flood. Changes most often occur as a result of God dealing with his children according to their changing circumstances.

We know, for example, that major changes in practices took place during Christ’s ministry. Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses and practices associated with that law were no longer necessary. Changes also took place after Christ's earthly ministry. For example, Christ originally taught the gospel only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel (Matt. 15:24) and forbade his apostles from going to the Gentiles ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/10/5-6#5 Matthew 10:5–6]). After Christ’s death Peter was commanded by an angel to take the gospel to all people ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/10 Acts 10], [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/11 Acts 11]; [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/28/19 Matt 28:19]). Following Christ’s mortal ministry the practice of circumcision also became unnecessary ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/15 Acts 15], [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gal/6/15#15 Galatians 6:15]). Changes in the Church are not only common, but often necessary. Such changes, however, must be done by inspiration or revelation from the head of the Church, which is Christ.

There are absolute truths and relative truths. Absolute truths (such as: God lives and Jesus is the Christ) do not change. Relative truths or practices (such as: circumcision, plural marriage, and age of priesthood ordination) do change. Many relative truths deal with procedural issues, and how absolute truths are presented, rather than the absolute truths themselves. As additional truth is revealed, our understanding of previous revelation is modified to accommodate additional light. “But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little....” ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/isa/28/13#13 Isaiah 28:13]; [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/98/12#12 D&C 98:12].) “That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day.” ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/50/23-24#23 D&C 50:23–24].)

That the temple ceremony has undergone changes, improvements, and refinements, should come as no surprise. Joseph Fielding Smith said that the “work of salvation for the dead came to the Prophet like every other doctrine—piecemeal. It was not revealed all at once.”{{ref|jfs1}}{{NeedCite}}

What has changed in the temple ceremony? It’s probably more important to understand what has not changed. What is the "endowment"? Brigham Young said:

:"Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation in spite of earth and hell." {{ref|by1}}

Joseph Smith said that the endowment is designed to give “a comprehensive view of our condition and true relation to God” {{ref|js1}} by way of instruction and covenants. As noted by Brigham Young, important elements of the endowment include the key words, signs, and tokens. The vehicle by which these important elements are expressed, as well as other components of the endowment—such as penalties, and the dramatic presentation of the endowment–are less essential (relative truths). While the significance and purpose of the endowment remains unchanged, how God chooses to reveal the message and meaning of the endowment can change according to His direction. Thanks to continuing revelation, the endowment can be modified as our understanding changes. As Greg Kearney explains,

:When Joseph was first trying to communicate the truths of the endowment he used a ritual form familiar to the saints of his day. That ritual form was, in some respects, Masonic in nature. As the saints lost their connection to Masonry the symbolic meaning of the penalties and other Masonic elements was lost as well. They became meaningless to all but a few Latter-day Saint Freemasons. So the penalties were removed along with other elements both Masonic and non-Masonic which no longer served the purpose of communicating the truths of the endowment.{{ref|kearney1}}

Although Joseph Smith received the principles of the endowment by revelation, he recognized that the presentation of the endowment could, and would, change. In May 1842, after the first endowment was given, the prophet Joseph told Brigham that the endowment was “not arranged perfectly” and he wanted Brigham to “organize and systematize” the ceremonies. In the process of so doing, Brigham claims to have gained more insight into the endowment.

In succeeding years, Brigham Young suggested that the presentation of the endowment could further evolve. On April 6, 1845, in a Nauvoo Conference, Brigham Young said that Joseph “did not receive every thing connected with the doctrine of redemption” in his lifetime, but instead “left the key” with the Brethren. “We have got to learn how to be faithful in a few things; you know the promise is, if we are faithful in a few things, we shall be made ruler over many things. If we improve upon small things, greater will be given unto us.” {{ref|ms1}}

The dramatic presentation of the endowment has undergone changes. Up until the dedication of the St. George Temple in 1877 the endowment teachings had passed on in oral form only. Brigham (as the sole survivor of the original group who received the endowment from Joseph Smith in 1842), was concerned that this ordinance be preserved as perfectly as possible. He enlisted the help of his son, Brigham, Jr., and Wilford Woodruff, giving them the assignment to record the ceremonies so they could be taught to the temple workers. Wilford Woodruff recalled that President Young labored “all winter to get up a perfect form of Endowments as far as possible.” {{{ref|buerger1}} This indicates that the endowment may have varied slightly from the endowment of Joseph Smith.

Woodruff wrote that prior to this time they had “acted up to all the light and knowledge” they had, but they “felt that there was more to be revealed upon this subject than we had received.” After receiving revelation in the St. George Temple, “changes were made” to the endowment and Woodruff wrote that “we still have more changes to make, in order to satisfy our Heavenly Father, satisfy our dead and ourselves.”{{ref|ww1}} One of the changes was the addition of vicarious endowments for the dead. Although the doctrine concerning baptisms for the dead was revealed and performed under the direction of Joseph Smith, it wasn’t until January 11, 1877, in the St. George temple that the first endowments given in behalf of the dead were preformed. “Not long before,” notes Cowan, “President Young had told some temple workers that he had just learned by revelation “that it takes as full and complete a set of ordinances for the dead as for the living.”{{ref|cowan1}} Sixteen years later, Wilford Woodruff met with the Quorum of the Twelve and four temple presidents to harmonize the various and “different” modes of endowment ceremonies.{{ref|ww2}}

As the prophets have recognized, a living Church with continuing revelation, will expect the Lord to add further light, correction, and modification, as the needs of His people, and their understanding changes.

==Conclusion==

Inasmunch as the Endowment was given of God through revelation and inspiration, God is perfectly capable of revealing and inspiring modifications to the Endowment according to the needs and understanding of the Lord's people, in order to more fully benefit them. That the presentation of the Endowment has evolved is more a testament to the active involvement of Deity in the spiritual life of His children than a once-given, forever-unchangeable rite whose deep meaning becomes lost as cultural changes render symbols once familiar into empty ciphers full of mystery and suspicion.

==Endnotes==
#{{note|jfs1}} {{DoS1|vol=2|start=168}}
#{{note|by1}} {{JoD2|start=31|end=31|title=The Gospel, Growing in Knowldege, etc.|date=23 October 1853|author=Brigham Young}}
#{{note|js1}} {{TPJS1|start=324}}
#{{note|kearney1}} Greg Kearney, “Mormons and Masonry: Ask the Apologist,” at ''fairlds.org'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc33.html}}
#{{note|ms1}} {{MS|date=6 April 1845|vol=6|start=119|end=121}}
#{{note|beurger1}} {{Dialogue1|author=David John Buerger|article=The Development of the Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony|vol=20|num=4|date=Winter 1987|start=50}}
#{{note|ww1}} Wilford Woodruff, ''Discourses of Wilford Woodruff'' (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1964), 154.
#{{note|cowan1}} Richard O. Cowan, “Brigham Young: Builder of Temples,” in ''Lion of the Lord: Essays on the Life and Service of Brigham Young'', eds., Susan Easton Black and Larry C. Porter, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1995), 240; see also Richard O. Cowan, “The Doctrine and Covenants on Temples and Their Functions,” ''Doctrines for Exaltation: The 1989 Sperry Symposium on the Doctrine and Covenants'' (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1989), 27.
#{{note|ww2}} {{WWJ1|vol=9|start=267}}

==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===
*Links to related articles in the wiki

===FAIR web site===
*[http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai132.html Changes in temple ceremony] - FAIR Topical Guide
*[http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai127.html Temples and temple work]- FAIR Topical Guide

===External links===
*[http://www.mormonmonastery.org/?cat=31 Historical Changes Relating to Temples] - Mormon Monastery

===Printed material===
*Printed resources whose text is not available online

Changes to the temple endowment

2006-09-05T02:47:59Z

MikeAsh: /* Endnotes */

{{draft}}<br>
{{question}}<br>
{{templedisclaimer}}
==Question==
Latter-day Saints believe that the Temple endowment is an eternal ordinance that Joseph Smith received by revelation from God. Why, then, have changes been made to it several times since it was first revealed?

==Response==
God’s directives and how He deals with His people often vary according to His people’s understanding and needs. God doesn’t tell everyone to build an ark and wait for a flood. Changes most often occur as a result of God dealing with his children according to their changing circumstances.

We know, for example, that major changes in practices took place during Christ’s ministry. Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses and practices associated with that law were no longer necessary. Changes also took place after Christ's earthly ministry. For example, Christ originally taught the gospel only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel (Matt. 15:24) and forbade his apostles from going to the Gentiles ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/10/5-6#5 Matthew 10:5–6]). After Christ’s death Peter was commanded by an angel to take the gospel to all people ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/10 Acts 10], [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/11 Acts 11]; [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/28/19 Matt 28:19]). Following Christ’s mortal ministry the practice of circumcision also became unnecessary ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/15 Acts 15], [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gal/6/15#15 Galatians 6:15]). Changes in the Church are not only common, but often necessary. Such changes, however, must be done by inspiration or revelation from the head of the Church, which is Christ.

There are absolute truths and relative truths. Absolute truths (such as: God lives and Jesus is the Christ) do not change. Relative truths or practices (such as: circumcision, plural marriage, and age of priesthood ordination) do change. Many relative truths deal with procedural issues, and how absolute truths are presented, rather than the absolute truths themselves. As additional truth is revealed, our understanding of previous revelation is modified to accommodate additional light. “But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little....” ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/isa/28/13#13 Isaiah 28:13]; [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/98/12#12 D&C 98:12].) “That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day.” ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/50/23-24#23 D&C 50:23–24].)

That the temple ceremony has undergone changes, improvements, and refinements, should come as no surprise. Joseph Fielding Smith said that the “work of salvation for the dead came to the Prophet like every other doctrine—piecemeal. It was not revealed all at once.”{{ref|jfs1}}{{NeedCite}}

What has changed in the temple ceremony? It’s probably more important to understand what has not changed. What is the "endowment"? Brigham Young said:

:"Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation in spite of earth and hell." {{ref|by1}}

Joseph Smith said that the endowment is designed to give “a comprehensive view of our condition and true relation to God” {{ref|js1}} by way of instruction and covenants. As noted by Brigham Young, important elements of the endowment include the key words, signs, and tokens. The vehicle by which these important elements are expressed, as well as other components of the endowment—such as penalties, and the dramatic presentation of the endowment–are less essential (relative truths). While the significance and purpose of the endowment remains unchanged, how God chooses to reveal the message and meaning of the endowment can change according to His direction. Thanks to continuing revelation, the endowment can be modified as our understanding changes. As Greg Kearney explains,

:When Joseph was first trying to communicate the truths of the endowment he used a ritual form familiar to the saints of his day. That ritual form was, in some respects, Masonic in nature. As the saints lost their connection to Masonry the symbolic meaning of the penalties and other Masonic elements was lost as well. They became meaningless to all but a few Latter-day Saint Freemasons. So the penalties were removed along with other elements both Masonic and non-Masonic which no longer served the purpose of communicating the truths of the endowment.{{ref|kearney1}}

Although Joseph Smith received the principles of the endowment by revelation, he recognized that the presentation of the endowment could, and would, change. In May 1842, after the first endowment was given, the prophet Joseph told Brigham that the endowment was “not arranged perfectly” and he wanted Brigham to “organize and systematize” the ceremonies. In the process of so doing, Brigham claims to have gained more insight into the endowment.

In succeeding years, Brigham Young suggested that the presentation of the endowment could further evolve. On April 6, 1845, in a Nauvoo Conference, Brigham Young said that Joseph “did not receive every thing connected with the doctrine of redemption” in his lifetime, but instead “left the key” with the Brethren. “We have got to learn how to be faithful in a few things; you know the promise is, if we are faithful in a few things, we shall be made ruler over many things. If we improve upon small things, greater will be given unto us.” {{ref|ms1}}

The dramatic presentation of the endowment has undergone changes. Up until the dedication of the St. George Temple in 1877 the endowment teachings had passed on in oral form only. Brigham (as the sole survivor of the original group who received the endowment from Joseph Smith in 1842), was concerned that this ordinance be preserved as perfectly as possible. He enlisted the help of his son, Brigham, Jr., and Wilford Woodruff, giving them the assignment to record the ceremonies so they could be taught to the temple workers. Wilford Woodruff recalled that President Young labored “all winter to get up a perfect form of Endowments as far as possible.” {{{ref|buerger1}} This indicates that the endowment may have varied slightly from the endowment of Joseph Smith.

Woodruff wrote that prior to this time they had “acted up to all the light and knowledge” they had, but they “felt that there was more to be revealed upon this subject than we had received.” After receiving revelation in the St. George Temple, “changes were made” to the endowment and Woodruff wrote that “we still have more changes to make, in order to satisfy our Heavenly Father, satisfy our dead and ourselves.”{{ref|ww1}} One of the changes was the addition of vicarious endowments for the dead. Although the doctrine concerning baptisms for the dead was revealed and performed under the direction of Joseph Smith, it wasn’t until January 11, 1877, in the St. George temple that the first endowments given in behalf of the dead were preformed. “Not long before,” notes Cowan, “President Young had told some temple workers that he had just learned by revelation “that it takes as full and complete a set of ordinances for the dead as for the living.”{{ref|cowan1}} Sixteen years later, Wilford Woodruff met with the Quorum of the Twelve and four temple presidents to harmonize the various and “different” modes of endowment ceremonies.{{ref|ww2}}

As the prophets have recognized, a living Church with continuing revelation, will expect the Lord to add further light, correction, and modification, as the needs of His people, and their understanding changes.

==Conclusion==

Inasmunch as the Endowment was given of God through revelation and inspiration, God is perfectly capable of revealing and inspiring modifications to the Endowment according to the needs and understanding of the Lord's people, in order to more fully benefit them. That the presentation of the Endowment has evolved is more a testament to the active involvement of Deity in the spiritual life of His children than a once-given, forever-unchangeable rite whose deep meaning becomes lost as cultural changes render symbols once familiar into empty ciphers full of mystery and suspicion.

==Endnotes==
#{{note|jfs1}} {{DoS1|vol=2|start=168}}
#{{note|by1}} {{JoD2|start=31|end=31|title=The Gospel, Growing in Knowldege, etc.|date=23 October 1853|author=Brigham Young}}
#{{note|js1}} {{TPJS1|start=324}}
#{{note|kearney1}} Greg Kearney, “Mormons and Masonry: Ask the Apologist,” at ''fairlds.org'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc33.html}}
#{{note|ms1}} {{MS|date=1 October 1845|vol=6|start=119|end=121}}
#{{note|beurger1}} {{Dialogue1|author=David John Buerger|article=The Development of the Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony|vol=20|num=4|date=Winter 1987|start=50}}
#{{note|ww1}} Wilford Woodruff, ''Discourses of Wilford Woodruff'' (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1964), 154.
#{{note|cowan1}} Richard O. Cowan, “Brigham Young: Builder of Temples,” in ''Lion of the Lord: Essays on the Life and Service of Brigham Young'', eds., Susan Easton Black and Larry C. Porter, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1995), 240; see also Richard O. Cowan, “The Doctrine and Covenants on Temples and Their Functions,” ''Doctrines for Exaltation: The 1989 Sperry Symposium on the Doctrine and Covenants'' (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1989), 27.
#{{note|ww2}} {{WWJ1|vol=9|start=267}}

==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===
*Links to related articles in the wiki

===FAIR web site===
*[http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai132.html Changes in temple ceremony] - FAIR Topical Guide
*[http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai127.html Temples and temple work]- FAIR Topical Guide

===External links===
*[http://www.mormonmonastery.org/?cat=31 Historical Changes Relating to Temples] - Mormon Monastery

===Printed material===
*Printed resources whose text is not available online

Changes to the temple endowment

2006-09-05T02:43:08Z

MikeAsh: /* Endnotes */

{{draft}}<br>
{{question}}<br>
{{templedisclaimer}}
==Question==
Latter-day Saints believe that the Temple endowment is an eternal ordinance that Joseph Smith received by revelation from God. Why, then, have changes been made to it several times since it was first revealed?

==Response==
God’s directives and how He deals with His people often vary according to His people’s understanding and needs. God doesn’t tell everyone to build an ark and wait for a flood. Changes most often occur as a result of God dealing with his children according to their changing circumstances.

We know, for example, that major changes in practices took place during Christ’s ministry. Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses and practices associated with that law were no longer necessary. Changes also took place after Christ's earthly ministry. For example, Christ originally taught the gospel only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel (Matt. 15:24) and forbade his apostles from going to the Gentiles ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/10/5-6#5 Matthew 10:5–6]). After Christ’s death Peter was commanded by an angel to take the gospel to all people ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/10 Acts 10], [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/11 Acts 11]; [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/28/19 Matt 28:19]). Following Christ’s mortal ministry the practice of circumcision also became unnecessary ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/15 Acts 15], [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gal/6/15#15 Galatians 6:15]). Changes in the Church are not only common, but often necessary. Such changes, however, must be done by inspiration or revelation from the head of the Church, which is Christ.

There are absolute truths and relative truths. Absolute truths (such as: God lives and Jesus is the Christ) do not change. Relative truths or practices (such as: circumcision, plural marriage, and age of priesthood ordination) do change. Many relative truths deal with procedural issues, and how absolute truths are presented, rather than the absolute truths themselves. As additional truth is revealed, our understanding of previous revelation is modified to accommodate additional light. “But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little....” ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/isa/28/13#13 Isaiah 28:13]; [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/98/12#12 D&C 98:12].) “That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day.” ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/50/23-24#23 D&C 50:23–24].)

That the temple ceremony has undergone changes, improvements, and refinements, should come as no surprise. Joseph Fielding Smith said that the “work of salvation for the dead came to the Prophet like every other doctrine—piecemeal. It was not revealed all at once.”{{ref|jfs1}}{{NeedCite}}

What has changed in the temple ceremony? It’s probably more important to understand what has not changed. What is the "endowment"? Brigham Young said:

:"Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation in spite of earth and hell." {{ref|by1}}

Joseph Smith said that the endowment is designed to give “a comprehensive view of our condition and true relation to God” {{ref|js1}} by way of instruction and covenants. As noted by Brigham Young, important elements of the endowment include the key words, signs, and tokens. The vehicle by which these important elements are expressed, as well as other components of the endowment—such as penalties, and the dramatic presentation of the endowment–are less essential (relative truths). While the significance and purpose of the endowment remains unchanged, how God chooses to reveal the message and meaning of the endowment can change according to His direction. Thanks to continuing revelation, the endowment can be modified as our understanding changes. As Greg Kearney explains,

:When Joseph was first trying to communicate the truths of the endowment he used a ritual form familiar to the saints of his day. That ritual form was, in some respects, Masonic in nature. As the saints lost their connection to Masonry the symbolic meaning of the penalties and other Masonic elements was lost as well. They became meaningless to all but a few Latter-day Saint Freemasons. So the penalties were removed along with other elements both Masonic and non-Masonic which no longer served the purpose of communicating the truths of the endowment.{{ref|kearney1}}

Although Joseph Smith received the principles of the endowment by revelation, he recognized that the presentation of the endowment could, and would, change. In May 1842, after the first endowment was given, the prophet Joseph told Brigham that the endowment was “not arranged perfectly” and he wanted Brigham to “organize and systematize” the ceremonies. In the process of so doing, Brigham claims to have gained more insight into the endowment.

In succeeding years, Brigham Young suggested that the presentation of the endowment could further evolve. On April 6, 1845, in a Nauvoo Conference, Brigham Young said that Joseph “did not receive every thing connected with the doctrine of redemption” in his lifetime, but instead “left the key” with the Brethren. “We have got to learn how to be faithful in a few things; you know the promise is, if we are faithful in a few things, we shall be made ruler over many things. If we improve upon small things, greater will be given unto us.” {{ref|ms1}}

The dramatic presentation of the endowment has undergone changes. Up until the dedication of the St. George Temple in 1877 the endowment teachings had passed on in oral form only. Brigham (as the sole survivor of the original group who received the endowment from Joseph Smith in 1842), was concerned that this ordinance be preserved as perfectly as possible. He enlisted the help of his son, Brigham, Jr., and Wilford Woodruff, giving them the assignment to record the ceremonies so they could be taught to the temple workers. Wilford Woodruff recalled that President Young labored “all winter to get up a perfect form of Endowments as far as possible.” {{{ref|buerger1}} This indicates that the endowment may have varied slightly from the endowment of Joseph Smith.

Woodruff wrote that prior to this time they had “acted up to all the light and knowledge” they had, but they “felt that there was more to be revealed upon this subject than we had received.” After receiving revelation in the St. George Temple, “changes were made” to the endowment and Woodruff wrote that “we still have more changes to make, in order to satisfy our Heavenly Father, satisfy our dead and ourselves.”{{ref|ww1}} One of the changes was the addition of vicarious endowments for the dead. Although the doctrine concerning baptisms for the dead was revealed and performed under the direction of Joseph Smith, it wasn’t until January 11, 1877, in the St. George temple that the first endowments given in behalf of the dead were preformed. “Not long before,” notes Cowan, “President Young had told some temple workers that he had just learned by revelation “that it takes as full and complete a set of ordinances for the dead as for the living.”{{ref|cowan1}} Sixteen years later, Wilford Woodruff met with the Quorum of the Twelve and four temple presidents to harmonize the various and “different” modes of endowment ceremonies.{{ref|ww2}}

As the prophets have recognized, a living Church with continuing revelation, will expect the Lord to add further light, correction, and modification, as the needs of His people, and their understanding changes.

==Conclusion==

Inasmunch as the Endowment was given of God through revelation and inspiration, God is perfectly capable of revealing and inspiring modifications to the Endowment according to the needs and understanding of the Lord's people, in order to more fully benefit them. That the presentation of the Endowment has evolved is more a testament to the active involvement of Deity in the spiritual life of His children than a once-given, forever-unchangeable rite whose deep meaning becomes lost as cultural changes render symbols once familiar into empty ciphers full of mystery and suspicion.

==Endnotes==
#{{note|jfs1}} {{DoS1|vol=2|start=168}}
#{{note|by1}} {{JoD2|start=31|end=31|title=The Gospel, Growing in Knowldege, etc.|date=23 October 1853|author=Brigham Young}}
#{{note|js1}} {{TPJS1|start=324}}
#{{note|kearney1}} Greg Kearney, “Mormons and Masonry: Ask the Apologist,” at ''fairlds.org'' {{fairlink|url=http://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc33.html}}
#{{note|ms1}} {{MS|date=1 October 1845|vol=6|start=119|end=123}}
#{{note|beurger1}} {{Dialogue1|author=David John Buerger|article=The Development of the Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony|vol=20|num=4|date=Winter 1987|start=50}}
#{{note|ww1}} Wilford Woodruff, ''Discourses of Wilford Woodruff'' (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1964), 154.
#{{note|cowan1}} Richard O. Cowan, “Brigham Young: Builder of Temples,” in ''Lion of the Lord: Essays on the Life and Service of Brigham Young'', eds., Susan Easton Black and Larry C. Porter, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1995), 240; see also Richard O. Cowan, “The Doctrine and Covenants on Temples and Their Functions,” ''Doctrines for Exaltation: The 1989 Sperry Symposium on the Doctrine and Covenants'' (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1989), 27.
#{{note|ww2}} {{WWJ1|vol=9|start=267}}

==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===
*Links to related articles in the wiki

===FAIR web site===
*[http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai132.html Changes in temple ceremony] - FAIR Topical Guide
*[http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai127.html Temples and temple work]- FAIR Topical Guide

===External links===
*[http://www.mormonmonastery.org/?cat=31 Historical Changes Relating to Temples] - Mormon Monastery

===Printed material===
*Printed resources whose text is not available online

Changes to the temple endowment

2006-09-05T01:22:32Z

MikeAsh: /* Response */

{{draft}}<br>
{{question}}<br>
{{templedisclaimer}}
==Question==
Latter-day Saints believe that the Temple endowment is an eternal ordinance that Joseph Smith received by revelation from God. Why, then, have changes been made to it several times since it was first revealed?

==Response==
God’s directives and how He deals with His people often vary according to His people’s understanding and needs. God doesn’t tell everyone to build an ark and wait for a flood. Changes most often occur as a result of God dealing with his children according to their changing circumstances.

We know, for example, that major changes in practices took place during Christ’s ministry. Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses and practices associated with that law were no longer necessary. Changes also took place after Christ's earthly ministry. For example, Christ originally taught the gospel only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel (Matt. 15:24) and forbade his apostles from going to the Gentiles ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/10/5-6#5 Matthew 10:5–6]). After Christ’s death Peter was commanded by an angel to take the gospel to all people ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/10 Acts 10], [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/11 Acts 11]; [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/28/19 Matt 28:19]). Following Christ’s mortal ministry the practice of circumcision also became unnecessary ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/acts/15 Acts 15], [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gal/6/15#15 Galatians 6:15]). Changes in the Church are not only common, but often necessary. Such changes, however, must be done by inspiration or revelation from the head of the Church, which is Christ.

There are absolute truths and relative truths. Absolute truths (such as: God lives and Jesus is the Christ) do not change. Relative truths or practices (such as: circumcision, plural marriage, and age of priesthood ordination) do change. Many relative truths deal with procedural issues, and how absolute truths are presented, rather than the absolute truths themselves. As additional truth is revealed, our understanding of previous revelation is modified to accommodate additional light. “But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little....” ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/isa/28/13#13 Isaiah 28:13]; [http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/98/12#12 D&C 98:12].) “That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day.” ([http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/50/23-24#23 D&C 50:23–24].)

That the temple ceremony has undergone changes, improvements, and refinements, should come as no surprise. Joseph Fielding Smith said that the “work of salvation for the dead came to the Prophet like every other doctrine—piecemeal. It was not revealed all at once.”(Joseph Field Smith, Doctrines of Salvation (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1955), 2:168.){{NeedCite}}

What has changed in the temple ceremony? It’s probably more important to understand what has not changed. What is the "endowment"? Brigham Young said:

:"Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation in spite of earth and hell." (Journal of Discourses 2:31.){{NeedCite}}

Joseph Smith said that the endowment is designed to give “a comprehensive view of our condition and true relation to God” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1976), 324.) {{NeedCite}}by way of instruction and covenants. As noted by Brigham Young, important elements of the endowment include the key words, signs, and tokens. The vehicle by which these important elements are expressed, as well as other components of the endowment—such as penalties, and the dramatic presentation of the endowment–are less essential (relative truths). While the significance and purpose of the endowment remains unchanged, how God chooses to reveal the message and meaning of the endowment can change according to His direction. Thanks to continuing revelation, the endowment can be modified as our understanding changes. As Greg Kearney explains,

:"When Joseph was first trying to communicate the truths of the endowment he used a ritual form familiar to the saints of his day. That ritual form was, in some respects, Masonic in nature. As the saints lost their connection to Masonry the symbolic meaning of the penalties and other Masonic elements was lost as well. They became meaningless to all but a few Latter-day Saint Freemasons. So the penalties were removed along with other elements both Masonic and non-Masonic which no longer served the purpose of communicating the truths of the endowment." (Greg Kearney, “Mormons and Masonry: Ask the Apologist,” at http://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc33.html){{NeedCite}}

Although Joseph Smith received the principles of the endowment by revelation, he recognized that the presentation of the endowment could, and would, change. In May 1842, after the first endowment was given, the prophet Joseph told Brigham that the endowment was “not arranged perfectly” and he wanted Brigham to “organize and systematize” the ceremonies. In the process of so doing, Brigham claims to have gained more insight into the endowment.

In succeeding years, Brigham Young suggested that the presentation of the endowment could further evolve. On April 6, 1845, in a Nauvoo Conference, Brigham Young said that Joseph “did not receive every thing connected with the doctrine of redemption” in his lifetime, but instead “left the key” with the Brethren. “We have got to learn how to be faithful in a few things; you know the promise is, if we are faithful in a few things, we shall be made ruler over many things. If we improve upon small things, greater will be given unto us.” (Millennial Star (1 October 1845), 8:6:119-123){{NeedCite}}

The dramatic presentation of the endowment has undergone changes. Up until the dedication of the St. George Temple in 1877 the endowment teachings had passed on in oral form only. Brigham (as the sole survivor of the original group who received the endowment from Joseph Smith in 1842), was concerned that this ordinance be preserved as perfectly as possible. He enlisted the help of his son, Brigham, Jr., and Wilford Woodruff, giving them the assignment to record the ceremonies so they could be taught to the temple workers. Wilford Woodruff recalled that President Young labored “all winter to get up a perfect form of Endowments as far as possible.” (David John Buerger, “The Development of the Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony,” Dialogue 20:4 (Winter 1987), 50){{NeedCite}} This indicates that the endowment may have varied slightly from the endowment of Joseph Smith.

Woodruff wrote that prior to this time they had “acted up to all the light and knowledge” they had, but they “felt that there was more to be revealed upon this subject than we had received.” After receiving revelation in the St. George Temple, “changes were made” to the endowment and Woodruff wrote that “we still have more changes to make, in order to satisfy our Heavenly Father, satisfy our dead and ourselves.” (Wilford Woodruff, Discourses of Wilford Woodruff (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1964), 154.){{NeedCite}} One of the changes was the addition of vicarious endowments for the dead. Although the doctrine concerning baptisms for the dead was revealed and performed under the direction of Joseph Smith, it wasn’t until January 11, 1877, in the St. George temple that the first endowments given in behalf of the dead were preformed. “Not long before,” notes Cowan, “President Young had told some temple workers that he had just learned by revelation “that it takes as full and complete a set of ordinances for the dead as for the living.” (Richard O. Cowan, “Brigham Young: Builder of Temples,” Lion of the Lord: Essays on the Life and Service of Brigham Young, eds., Susan Easton Black and Larry C. Porter (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1995), 240; see also Richard O. Cowan, “The Doctrine and Covenants on Temples and Their Functions,” Doctrines for Exaltation: The 1989 Sperry Symposium on the Doctrine and Covenants (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1989), 27.) Sixteen years later, Wilford Woodruff met with the Quorum of the Twelve and four temple presidents to harmonize the various and “different” modes of endowment ceremonies. (Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woodruff’s Journal, 9 vols., ed., Scott G. Kenny (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1985), 9:267.){{NeedCite}}

As the prophets have recognized, a living Church with continuing revelation, will expect the Lord to add further light, correction, and modification, as the needs of His people, and their understanding changes.

==Conclusion==

Inasmunch as the Endowment was given of God through revelation and inspiration, God is perfectly capable of revealing and inspiring modifications to the Endowment according to the needs and understanding of the Lord's people, in order to more fully benefit them. That the presentation of the Endowment has evolved is more a testament to the active involvement of Deity in the spiritual life of His children than a once-given, forever-unchangeable rite whose deep meaning becomes lost as cultural changes render symbols once familiar into empty ciphers full of mystery and suspicion.

==Endnotes==

==Further reading==

===FAIR wiki articles===
*Links to related articles in the wiki

===FAIR web site===
*[http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai132.html Changes in temple ceremony] - FAIR Topical Guide
*[http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai127.html Temples and temple work]- FAIR Topical Guide

===External links===
*[http://www.mormonmonastery.org/?cat=31 Historical Changes Relating to Temples] - Mormon Monastery

===Printed material===
*Printed resources whose text is not available online